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  1. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterX View Post
    What this Crossover should have been called, LOL, we only saw the heroes fighting for one other earths and that was the Supergirl Earth. Not many other heroes from other earths were there to fight the end of the freaking multiverse!. COIE name was taken when they basically were doing something else. This CW version makes a mockery of the epic comic COIE. In the end all the earths are back and only 3 merged, LAUGHABLE. Its laughable, they had all 12 issues of COIE freely at their disposal but the work they put its like they only read 5 pages. Many of the characters that were instrumental in COIE comic event were simply absent, important events to happen in the story were not created as scenes.

    This felt more like a Youtube version of the story, they really should not have attempted the storyline, knowing the scope of the story and knowing how they dont have the resources to do it justice.
    No medium outside of a big budget mini series would have the ability to 'do it justice' and even if it did, people would still be complaining about something. To go into Crisis expecting an exact regurgitation of the comic on the screen was a fool's errand to begin with.

  2. #1172
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KabutoRyder View Post
    No medium outside of a big budget mini series would have the ability to 'do it justice' and even if it did, people would still be complaining about something. To go into Crisis expecting an exact regurgitation of the comic on the screen was a fool's errand to begin with.
    Exactly right. A different medium means a different kind of adaptation since you can't play fast and loose
    with even choreography in a TV show or movie as opposed to a comic book.

    I remember people decrying the big battle in Civil War as a fraction of the comics' final battle, and it kinda makes sense that it would be smaller since there are different stakes involved. But I think back to the first Avengers vs. X-Men battle in the 60s -- it has a fraction of the ******action Civil War battle, and the 1960s AvX battle still looks better and busier, but that's by virtue of it being a comic and the mind being able to fill in the gaps as led by the panels.

    Likewise for Infinity War, with the Avengers and Guardians vs. Thanos. Compare it to the battle in Infinity Gauntlet and surely you'll be disappointed. Compare it to the first time the Avengers and Thing fought Thanos and you'd still be disappointed. But as far as superhero movies go, YouTube has plenty of reaction videos of audiences having a wide range of audible emotions, and that's what you want in a movie.

    Crisis on Two Earths could've had the budget and quality of a movie production but if it's compared solely to any comic book, it would most likely fail. So the best thing to do -- whether on a TV or film budget -- is to do the best work you can with what you've got.

  3. #1173
    Fantastic Member beatboks's Avatar
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    Damn it just dawned on me.
    With the paragons remembering all of pre Crisis Lex knows the secret identity of every major earth prime hero except Black Lightning.

    Both Barry and Kate had no qualms walling around without a mask on in front of him. He confronted Smallville Clark knowing he was Superman.

    Given CW heroes have that Super Friends connection, god help them is he starts a Legion of Doom (I know with Damien Dark, prof Zoom, and merlin we already technically have one)

  4. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatboks View Post
    Damn it just dawned on me.
    With the paragons remembering all of pre Crisis Lex knows the secret identity of every major earth prime hero except Black Lightning.

    Both Barry and Kate had no qualms walling around without a mask on in front of him. He confronted Smallville Clark knowing he was Superman.

    But remember, he only thought THAT Earth's Clark was Superman. He made a point of saying his Earth's Clark couldn't see past his glasses.

    Outside of that- yeah, he does know their identities. Maybe J'onn will wipe his mind by the end of the season.

    Then again, he knew Kara's identity for a while. He seems to be the kind of bad guy that would keep that info close to his chest and only use it when it benefits him.
    Last edited by AnakinFlair; 01-21-2020 at 07:50 PM.

  5. #1175
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    I think the creators did the best they could trying to adapt Crisis on a TV-budget and with all the production issues that entails.

    Although I do agree with the criticisms that Earth-X seemed to do a better job of managing a large cast and keeping the story momentum and show cohesiveness going then Crisis did.

    I also felt the Earth-X fights were more memorable then the fights in Crisis. Although Ryan Choi being able to sock out a nazi or two is maybe less improbable then him being able to take down shadow demons.

  6. #1176
    Fantastic Member beatboks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the creators did the best they could trying to adapt Crisis on a TV-budget and with all the production issues that entails.

    Although I do agree with the criticisms that Earth-X seemed to do a better job of managing a large cast and keeping the story momentum and show cohesiveness going then Crisis did.

    I also felt the Earth-X fights were more memorable then the fights in Crisis. Although Ryan Choi being able to sock out a nazi or two is maybe less improbable then him being able to take down shadow demons.
    I think we have to give some consideration to the expense the extra guest stars would have had on the budget. Some cameos (like Smallville, Lucifer, DCEU Flash) would not have been cheap.

    In the earth X crisis they only had a single extra cast member in The Ray. The rest was just actors pulling double duty. Which is why I'd say Routh Supes was the only non CW character to do any heavy lifting and make more than a brief cameo. I would say if Linda Carter and Dean Cain were still under contract for the rolls they have played in SG they would have also. I'd also say that the smallville longer presence was because one of them was already om contract for appearing.

  7. #1177
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatboks View Post
    I think we have to give some consideration to the expense the extra guest stars would have had on the budget. Some cameos (like Smallville, Lucifer, DCEU Flash) would not have been cheap.

    In the earth X crisis they only had a single extra cast member in The Ray. The rest was just actors pulling double duty. Which is why I'd say Routh Supes was the only non CW character to do any heavy lifting and make more than a brief cameo. I would say if Linda Carter and Dean Cain were still under contract for the rolls they have played in SG they would have also. I'd also say that the smallville longer presence was because one of them was already om contract for appearing.
    Yeah. The guest stars were both Crisis' strength and also part of it's issues production-wise.

  8. #1178
    Fantastic Member beatboks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah. The guest stars were both Crisis' strength and also part of it's issues production-wise.
    Agreed, what they gave to us in fan service IMHO more than made up for any short falls in production quality. I geeked out the whole Crisis.

  9. #1179
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    I think they were quite judicious in the use of guest stars. For example, they didn't give in to fan expectations by using Kevin Conroy in a easter egg role (such as being a mentor to Terry McGinnis), but rather as a strong allegory and a commentary on the deconstruction of super-heroes. It served Kate's character to see what happens when you kill your enemies--as she was planning to do in just the previous episode of her series, re Alice.

    You could look at the major other Earth stories as informing the development of plots and characters on the main Earth. Tom Welling Clark's attitude toward Lex and his desire to have a family feeds into Supergirl, Superman, Lois and Lex storylines going forward. I think Earth-Prime is an amalgam of all those ideas from the other Earths--the paragons having those experiences influences the kind of new universe that's created.
    "Whatever happens, nothing ruffles Ralph's wife Sue! Just looking at her makes you realize that everything's all right in the world--and probably always will be!"--Batman, DETECTIVE COMICS 343.

  10. #1180
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatboks View Post
    Agreed, what they gave to us in fan service IMHO more than made up for any short falls in production quality. I geeked out the whole Crisis.
    See, I was less geeked out. After the Earth-66 one I got the gimmick and it ceased being impressive. Except for Earth-Kingdome Come and Earth-Batmadman the rest were just glorified easter eggs. See this TV clip, that Earth is dead, rinse and repeat. Then all pop-up for 5 seconds at the end as if nothing happened.

    I'd have rather they used less former shows and given those stars at least as much time as Smallville got. Let Burt Ward's Robin interact with Batwoman, have some ZAP, POW BAM before they lose to the Shadow Demons. Skip Robert Wuh's cameo or move him into Conroy's world. Did the Legends of Earth 1974 really contribute anything since Rory was pretty much Rory? Since we've had prior appearances from both Julio and Tina McGee on Flash wouldn't some time on Earth-90 have been better than a blink and you'll miss it Birds of Prey scene and similar "Dead Superman" shot that wasn't even recognizable as a previously seen world? At least the Lucifer cameo actually contributed to the plot.

  11. #1181
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    One character that I thought should have easily shown up was Dinah Lance of Earth-203 played by Rachel Skarsten. We saw Ashley Scott (Huntress) and heard Dina Meyer (Oracle)--it shouldn't have been hard to get Rachel to do one cameo as her old DC character, given she's a DC character on BATWOMAN now.

    Reading the comic book, I saw it as similar but different with the cameos. Most cameos were from Earth-One, with some from Earth-Two and not much from any other Earths. But they didn't really serve the story--Wolfman and Perez were showing off, by cramming the panels with every DC character under the sun. Since live action DC doesn't have as many characters to draw from on Earth-1 and Earth-38, they had to draw from all the other TV shows and movies to cram their panels with cameos.

    And unlike Perez, who could put all the characters in one double-page spread, they couldn't put all the actors on one sound stage at the same time, without borrowing from INFINITY WAR's craft service budget after having already blown the catering budget for ENDGAME. A big movie could have green screened it so it seemed like hundreds of super-heroes and side characters rescued from those live action shows were standing in one rocky quarry at the end of time. My ideal was that, Kid Eternity style, the seven paragons would summon the spirits of everyone they met to battle alongside them against the Shadow Demons--but that would have been impossible for the small screen.
    "Whatever happens, nothing ruffles Ralph's wife Sue! Just looking at her makes you realize that everything's all right in the world--and probably always will be!"--Batman, DETECTIVE COMICS 343.

  12. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the creators did the best they could trying to adapt Crisis on a TV-budget and with all the production issues that entails.

    Although I do agree with the criticisms that Earth-X seemed to do a better job of managing a large cast and keeping the story momentum and show cohesiveness going then Crisis did.

    I also felt the Earth-X fights were more memorable then the fights in Crisis. Although Ryan Choi being able to sock out a nazi or two is maybe less improbable then him being able to take down shadow demons.

    Agree with all of that, though I will say it was nice for Supergirl to actually be an active participant this time around. In Invasion she was brainwashed for part of it, and outside of saving Oliver in the final fight, not really showcased; and in Earth X, when Melissa wasn't playing Overgirl, she was strapped to a bed and powerless for most of it.

    And the Shadow Demons were never consistent. Half of the time it looked like one punch was all it took to take them out (see Ryan Choi), but at the end, it took Mick and Black Lightning tag-teaming one to take it out. And then Killer Frost took one out on her own.


    Quote Originally Posted by beatboks View Post
    I think we have to give some consideration to the expense the extra guest stars would have had on the budget. Some cameos (like Smallville, Lucifer, DCEU Flash) would not have been cheap.

    In the earth X crisis they only had a single extra cast member in The Ray. The rest was just actors pulling double duty. Which is why I'd say Routh Supes was the only non CW character to do any heavy lifting and make more than a brief cameo. I would say if Linda Carter and Dean Cain were still under contract for the rolls they have played in SG they would have also. I'd also say that the smallville longer presence was because one of them was already om contract for appearing.
    I'm not sure the DCEU Flash cost them anything- all reports say it was the studio that requested it, and Guggenheim agreed even though the episode was already locked. I think WB may have paid for that one. As for the rest- they probably low-balled as many as possible, but some (like Welling or Lucifer) probably got a nice fee.

    I think that actors like Cain, Carter, and even Slater are on a by-the-episode type of deal, not a long-term contract. And Cain has seemingly fallen out of favor with the producers. But I do wish we had seen Slater as Supergirl again.

    Earth-X had another guest star other than the Ray- Captain Cold! And the Priest, who was the Greatest American Hero apparently. Also they got Susanna Thompson to voice the nazi Waverider.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    See, I was less geeked out. After the Earth-66 one I got the gimmick and it ceased being impressive. Except for Earth-Kingdome Come and Earth-Batmadman the rest were just glorified easter eggs. See this TV clip, that Earth is dead, rinse and repeat. Then all pop-up for 5 seconds at the end as if nothing happened.

    I'd have rather they used less former shows and given those stars at least as much time as Smallville got. Let Burt Ward's Robin interact with Batwoman, have some ZAP, POW BAM before they lose to the Shadow Demons. Skip Robert Wuh's cameo or move him into Conroy's world. Did the Legends of Earth 1974 really contribute anything since Rory was pretty much Rory? Since we've had prior appearances from both Julio and Tina McGee on Flash wouldn't some time on Earth-90 have been better than a blink and you'll miss it Birds of Prey scene and similar "Dead Superman" shot that wasn't even recognizable as a previously seen world? At least the Lucifer cameo actually contributed to the plot.
    Yeah, it gave an excuse as to why the rest of the Legends weren't in the crossover.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    One character that I thought should have easily shown up was Dinah Lance of Earth-203 played by Rachel Skarsten. We saw Ashley Scott (Huntress) and heard Dina Meyer (Oracle)--it shouldn't have been hard to get Rachel to do one cameo as her old DC character, given she's a DC character on BATWOMAN now.
    That's one I don't think they ever considered doing. Not sure why though it probably comes down to money.

  13. #1183
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    A glimpse at the new Arrowverse timeline:


  14. #1184
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  15. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    A glimpse at the new Arrowverse timeline:

    Looks like Earth X was a timeline alteration for Earth Prime. And the Ray debuts on CW earth before that.
    Last edited by Mr.B; 01-24-2020 at 02:56 PM.

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