X-Men Red #11 review *spoilers*

[remydat]

Sasuke suffered a terrible trauma caused in part by Itachi's inability to be more than a dog of the village and the ninja system. Life isn't fair, but the Uchiha were ostracized by the very village they helped found and make into one of the strongest in the world and Itachi assisted in the genocide of an entire clan. The Uchiha shouldn't have moved to attempt a coup of the government, as that would have led to war, but Danzo, Itachi, and the council's response was not right. I would argue that Sasuke putting Danzo, who manipulated Itachi and used the genocide of the Uchiha for his own personal gain, in the ground makes him the best Uchiha.

They were put in charge of the Police Force and chose to interpret it as being ostracized. Not sure how being in charge of military police is ostracization and if they felt that way, they could have simply refused the offer. Instead they kept the title and the perks it brought while still plotting rebellion.

The Uchiha would have visited war and tragedy on others and as a result they were killed. That is what happens in war when you attempt to overthrow a government. Having said that, genocide was not the answer but neither was Sasuke's response. You can't claim killing all those Uchiha because of what their leaders plotted is wrong but then try and argue that Sasuke killing people in response is justified. Both sides were responding to aggression and both sides responded incorrectly.

The difference is Itachi did what he thought was right and was not a whiny baby about it while Sasuke whined about it for much of the series. In addition, Itachi ultimately succeeded in his mission while Sasuke failed so in the end Itachi is the best Uchiha as he succeeded in his mission. By contrast Sasuke got his ass handed to him by Naruto in the end and then had to live and watch Naruto become Hokage and maintain the very power structure that he sought to destroy. Itachi won.

[Del torro]

Itachi

-kills women and children in their sleep

-mentally tortures an 8 year old for 48 hours

-later mentally tortures the same kid at age 12 for 48 hours until he goes into Coma

-Hero, Best uchiha

[remydat]

Strawman alert. No one said he was a hero. Said he was the best Uchiha. The Uchiha were largely a bunch of whiny babies so not hard to be best of the bunch. Itachi did what he did because he valued peace and his brother more than he valued honor, family, or power. As Danzo said, more than likely the Uchiha including Sasuke would have been killed in any coup so they were likely going to die no matter what. Itachi simply did what he had to do to save his ungrateful little brother.

Are we pretending that the village would have spared the Uchiha after the coup or that more people would not have died if the coup had been allowed to proceed? I mean these Uchiha were taken out by only 2 dudes and you think they would have defeated the whole of Konoha? It would have been a slaughter with the exception that Sasuke and several over villagers would have joined the Uchiha in the afterlife.

[PsychoEFrost]

Strawman alert. No one said he was a hero. Said he was the best Uchiha. The Uchiha were largely a bunch of whiny babies so not hard to be best of the bunch. Itachi did what he did because he valued peace and his brother more than he valued honor, family, or power. As Danzo said, more than likely the Uchiha including Sasuke would have been killed in any coup so they were likely going to die no matter what. Itachi simply did what he had to do to save his ungrateful little brother.

Are we pretending that the village would have spared the Uchiha after the coup or that more people would not have died if the coup had been allowed to proceed? I mean these Uchiha were taken out by only 2 dudes and you think they would have defeated the whole of Konoha? It would have been a slaughter with the exception that Sasuke and several over villagers would have joined the Uchiha in the afterlife.

At the time? Itachi, Fugaku, and the lower Uchiha families could have done a lot of damage. Every one of them had at least 2 tomoe Sharingan. Sure, once the real hard hitters like Tsume Inuzuka, Gen Aburame, and of course Minato and his team get involved, things are going to go south, but you underestimate how much Sarutobi REALLY wouldn't want to go to war with them.

[Hizashi]

They were put in charge of the Police Force and chose to interpret it as being ostracized. Not sure how being in charge of military police is ostracization and if they felt that way, they could have simply refused the offer. Instead they kept the title and the perks it brought while still plotting rebellion.

The Uchiha would have visited war and tragedy on others and as a result they were killed. That is what happens in war when you attempt to overthrow a government. Having said that, genocide was not the answer but neither was Sasuke's response. You can't claim killing all those Uchiha because of what their leaders plotted is wrong but then try and argue that Sasuke killing people in response is justified. Both sides were responding to aggression and both sides responded incorrectly.

The difference is Itachi did what he thought was right and was not a whiny baby about it while Sasuke whined about it for much of the series. In addition, Itachi ultimately succeeded in his mission while Sasuke failed so in the end Itachi is the best Uchiha as he succeeded in his mission. By contrast Sasuke got his ass handed to him by Naruto in the end and then had to live and watch Naruto become Hokage and maintain the very power structure that he sought to destroy. Itachi won.

What perks? If the police force had any real power or value then the village would have been adversely and severely affected by their sudden over-night disappearance. The source material (and one of the previous leaders) stated that the position was to monitor the Uchiha, a way to keep them under the village's thumb.

We don't know the details of the Uchiha's coup, only what Itachi, Danzo, and the elders inferred to justify their selfish and atrocious actions. What I always wondered was how a hypothetical coup that might have only had the village leaders as targets guaranteed all-out war but the elimination of the most feared clan in the world that represented a significant arm of the Leaf Village's military strength didn't. The people that Sasuke was "killing in response" were monsters who needed to be stopped - to a point. Itachi was a misguided product of the system who was manipulated into propagating it, Orochimaru was a madman who toyed with people's lives, the Akatsuki were all immoral killers, and Danzo might actually be worse than all of them. Ultimately he agreed with Itachi about peace being important but disagreed that the system needed to be maintained for that - and as far as I'm concerned, Sasuke was right.

Whine is a poor way to describe it - not sure what the proper response to your entire family being killed by a family member who you trusted more than anyone is. Itachi "succeeded"? In committing mass murder? If the goal was preventing escalation, they basically picked the nuclear option. Sasuke and Naruto fought to a stand-still and because Naruto couldn't be wrong in his own series, yes, Sasuke did ultimately become the guardian of the world he attempted to destroy. That just makes Naruto a tragic series. Itachi was on the side of a government that murdered dissidents they oppressed and whose subsequent leaders kept it quiet. Itachi didn't win anything, he was a hapless tool of a system and he never saw it.

[Hizashi]

Strawman alert. No one said he was a hero. Said he was the best Uchiha. The Uchiha were largely a bunch of whiny babies so not hard to be best of the bunch. Itachi did what he did because he valued peace and his brother more than he valued honor, family, or power. As Danzo said, more than likely the Uchiha including Sasuke would have been killed in any coup so they were likely going to die no matter what. Itachi simply did what he had to do to save his ungrateful little brother.

Are we pretending that the village would have spared the Uchiha after the coup or that more people would not have died if the coup had been allowed to proceed? I mean these Uchiha were taken out by only 2 dudes and you think they would have defeated the whole of Konoha? It would have been a slaughter with the exception that Sasuke and several over villagers would have joined the Uchiha in the afterlife.

Danzo used the threat of force (especially towards Sasuke) to manipulate Itachi in helping them with their goal - one not approved by the leader of the village. How many innocent people died because Itachi believed such a pathetic lie, that they would be condemned and killed for the actions of the Uchiha clan's leadership? Danzo's, and by extension Itachi's, logic is the same logic that has justified atrocities all around the world. The Hokage clearly didn't want any escalation but as far as we know there were no concessions being made to the Uchiha and Danzo and his council cronies were all too happy to keep them under the village's thumb. Danzo was shown so clearly to be a complete monster who actually believed himself to be good, which made him especially dangerous - and that Itachi worked with someone like this and had enough awareness of it that he prepared contingencies against him shows how poorly thought out his actions were.

Sasuke was spared because he didn't know about the coup - how many others who were ignorant of it were killed regardless?

At the time? Itachi, Fugaku, and the lower Uchiha families could have done a lot of damage. Every one of them had at least 2 tomoe Sharingan. Sure, once the real hard hitters like Tsume Inuzuka, Gen Aburame, and of course Minato and his team get involved, things are going to go south, but you underestimate how much Sarutobi REALLY wouldn't want to go to war with them.

Yep, and when you consider that Itachi had just obtained the Mangekyo, had help from Tobi, and launched a surprise attack, it's no wonder that they succeeded. The best fights in the series were all about one character forcing the other to show their hand and Itachi and Tobi had the advantage of knowing everything about the Uchiha as well as having numerous secret abilities at their disposal. Kishimoto knew that as OP as Itachi was even he alone couldn't beat the entire clan so he brought in another OP character. Besides, it's not difficult to infer that Danzo had his people in a perimeter around the Uchiha compound - how else would he have harvested so many eyes from all of Itachi and Tobi's victims before they spoiled?

[Huntsman Spider]

And speaking of Tobi, given his real identity, his participation in the Uchiha massacre was more a matter of personal vengeance for his own mistreatment at the hands of his clansmen. At least Itachi had something resembling good intentions; even if incredibly misplaced and misaimed, being scarred by the horrors of war as a very young child would be good enough reason to be so pathologically fearful of another one starting up, especially a civil war at that, that he would do anything to keep that from happening. That being said, it was indeed unforgivable, and hell, Itachi knew that well enough that his entire plan for the rest of his life was getting Sasuke to kill him for it and thus avenge/redeem their family.

Beyond arguing the merits of Naruto's (the series) moral philosophy, I did appreciate X-Men Red's finale for at least the creative method of dispatching Cassandra Nova. Turning her own Sentinite technology against her and using it to force her to feel empathy and remorse . . . hmm, shades of Spike and the chip in Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 4.

[PrezValentine]

I think it's lovely how the mediocre end of this book gave birth to an amazing discussion on manga. You guys are amazing.

[spirit2011]

I think it's lovely how the mediocre end of this book gave birth to an amazing discussion on manga. You guys are amazing.

More like people doesn't want to interrupt the naruto discussion

Or are really happy with the end and don't want to hear beddie downers