X-Men Red #11 review *spoilers*

[PsychoEFrost]

I'm gonna echo a lot of sentiment here for a solid 5/10.

1) Nova never felt like a real credible threat, and considering her history, that's a colossal writing screw up.

2) Defeating her with the care bear stare is similarly dumb. Especially since she's a narcissistic sociopath. Now she has empathy? Cool. She still believes she's completely right and all other opinions are invalid because she's a narcissist.

Pacing was a problem as well.

[ExodusCloak]

Just because it didn't live up to the hype doesn't mean it isn't good.

I really like that the theme of this book is empathy. It's really lacking a lot now

Show examples of this in earlier issues.

Hate was manufactured by the sentinels regardless of the individual
They maimed their enemy in issue 2
4 issues of standing around.
1 issue about some gibberish of forming a mutant nation within everyone else borders

Hate was artificially created much lik Novas empathy. Hollow like those speeches

[Devaishwarya]

It definitely is not. Taylor copypasting the bare minimum of 'social change' tweets to Jean's dialogue made this book stand out. This definitely was not a bad series, but it certainly didn't live up to the hype that came with the first 3 or 4 issues.

Very true.
It certainly felt as though this could have been better told in 6 issues instead of 11.
From here on out I will be very wary of investing in any maxi series from Marvel and just consider the trade if it seems worthwhile.

[spirit2011]

Show examples of this in earlier issues.

Hate was manufactured by the sentinels regardless of the individual
They maimed their enemy in issue 2
4 issues of standing around.
1 issue about some gibberish of forming a mutant nation within everyone else borders

Hate was artificially created much lik Novas empathy. Hollow like those speeches

You have to see that not everyone was infecting and the hate still flourish easily on internet.

there was Jean putting the soldiers in the place of the mutants.
Now I kinda of forgot the other, i think it is Jean pointing that cassandra is alone and it makes her weak

[ExodusCloak]

You have to see that not everyone was infecting and the hate still flourish easily on internet.

there was Jean putting the soldiers in the place of the mutants.
Now I kinda of forgot the other, i think it is Jean pointing that cassandra is alone and it makes her weak

That's not empathy.
The last one was about being part of a team and having friends not showing empathy but having the capacity doe love. Which is cliche
The soldiers were brainwashed IIRC
And in regards to the internet it's related to troll farms and trolling and being mean on the internet. And fake news issues that were clumsily dealt with.
So the key theme i can think of is hate not empathy. Sprinkled with whatever headlines of current affairs Taylor read in the Telegraph

Also it's been so long since I read that soldier scene I'm almost 100% sure there was something very controversial about it

[Grey]

Really enjoyed this issue. And the series.

The only thing I’d change is, jean and Cassandra really needed one good drawn out fight. The climax felt a tad underwhelming.

I liked the message of this series. And how it approached the mutant metaphor from a modern angle.

[Havok83]

That's not empathy.
The last one was about being part of a team and having friends not showing empathy but having the capacity doe love. Which is cliche
The soldiers were brainwashed IIRC
And in regards to the internet it's related to troll farms and trolling and being mean on the internet. And fake news issues that were clumsily dealt with.
So the key theme i can think of is hate not empathy. Sprinkled with whatever headlines of current affairs Taylor read in the Telegraph

Also it's been so long since I read that soldier scene I'm almost 100% sure there was something very controversial about it

People complained that Jean had no right to use her TP to put thoughts in the soldiers heads without their permission

[Wiccan]

I was also disappointed when we learned the hate was coming from the sentinites instead of just naturally. But they explained that the sentinites were created from thousands or so of real hate comments online, and I think that makes it so real hate is still moving the story enough instead of the book really going towards the "People don't actually hate mutants, they're just like that because they're forced" route.

That's not empathy.
The last one was about being part of a team and having friends not showing empathy but having the capacity doe love. Which is cliche
The soldiers were brainwashed IIRC
And in regards to the internet it's related to troll farms and trolling and being mean on the internet. And fake news issues that were clumsily dealt with.
So the key theme i can think of is hate not empathy. Sprinkled with whatever headlines of current affairs Taylor read in the Telegraph

Also it's been so long since I read that soldier scene I'm almost 100% sure there was something very controversial about it

Jean connected the soldiers minds to the mutants around and they felt how much they were suffering. The controversy was on one side because some people didn't understand the scene and thought Jean forced them to stop(which she literally says she didn't to Nightcrawler when he asks...) and on the other because some were "But how dare Jean go in their minds without permission even though they are soldiers threatening to shoot mutants!!11".

[ExodusCloak]

The nano sentinels diminish the message. Were those people responsible for their actions as it is artificial in creation. The hate on the internet is digital as well and Trinity considers it real. Is Cassandra being forced to repent or is it artificial.

[Cerridwen]

So does it mean Jean didn't have a chance against Nova in a fair fight?

[ExodusCloak]

So does it mean Jean didn't have a chance against Nova in a fair fight?

She did except Cassandra was mind controlling an army so Cassandra fought Jean while controlling an army

[Tycon]

Red is definitely good, the best book of the last few years. It brought new life to Jean after being dead so long, it was the best way to reintroduce her, it didn't had unecessary crossovers or love drama, it tried to do more than superheroes fighting heroes. Red was amazing

but like every book it had flaws. Still i believe the good things far exceed the bad ones.

A lot of the message that Taylor put felt cheap. Jean showing everyone her "vision" and her plans for a mutant nation felt artificially emotional. We aren't shown either and the idea never gets expanded on in the 11 issues we had. It was a great way to bring back Jean and was a good book with a good message, but there was a lot more promise, character development, plot progression, and seriousness attached to other series. During 2016's Uncanny X-Men, Bunn managed to move his story beats in a much better fashion than Taylor, despite being plagues by events galore, with actual threats to the team. We didn't even get closure for the Forge and Trinary/Gentle subplots.

Not best in decades but best team book in years despite its faults

I just can't see this standing up to Gillen's Extinction Team, Spurrier's X-Force, W00d's Adjectiveless X-Men, or Bunn's Uncanny X-Men just in terms of writing. And that's just this decade.

[PhoenixStudies]

There's no I in Jean

haha I love this!

So does it mean Jean didn't have a chance against Nova in a fair fight?

A chance, but she'd likely lose.

Cassandra wasn't able to rip Jean apart telekinetically, but it does seem like Cassie won the tk battle overall. However, it also seemed like it was all part of Jean's plan so it is hard to say. Generally, I think major bad guys should have more raw power than the good guys otherwise they wouldn't be much of a threat.

[CentralPower]

I have only been half-following this series. And, it looks like I did not miss much.

I really prefer Nova as a irredeemable monster. Trying to humanize or redeem her is not right, it makes her less interesting. She is better as a pure evil schemer rather than a bad copy of xavier.

The problem here is not that the monster caught break. The problem is that it is presented as something to be okay with. Having reprehensible lead characters, even allowing them to win, is one thing. But, when it is not clear that other characters (or the creative teams) know that a character is reprehensible, there is a problem.

Unfortunately, this is not unusual for the x-books. "Monster catches a break....and another and another and..." is an in-franchise cliche at this point.

I am less inclined to blame Taylor than I am to assume it is an editorial mandate. But, it is a problem.

And the centrist message in the end was just comical.

I have not read the issue. What is the "centrist message"?

[Havok83]

I just can't see this standing up to Gillen's Extinction Team, Spurrier's X-Force, W00d's Adjectiveless X-Men, or Bunn's Uncanny X-Men just in terms of writing. And that's just this decade.

Gillen's book was in 2012 and the last great X-men book IMO. Bendis' books had potential but went downhill towards the end. Im not really counting the satelite titles in that.Red was better than Gold, Blue, Astonishing, Extraodinary X-men vol 3 and 4, and All New X-Men v2. Bunn's UXM had potential to be great but IvX and editorial cut it short so alot of stuff he set up never materialized into a finished product. Taylor got to tell his story, which is something Bunn wasnt givevn the opportunity to do