View Poll Results: What did you think of this issue?

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  • ★★★★★

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    8 38.10%
  • ★★★

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  1. #1
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Default Wonder Woman #60 - The Just War, Pt. 3 (Spoilers)

    The story continues with Ares and Diana fighting. Diana comments that their fight is pointless as they are evenly matched (interesting, as Ares was always depicted as more powerful physically). She offers a hand to help him up, and just as he goes to take it, they hear a baby crying. The two find a baby in the rubble, and Ares realizes that he had been wrong. He vows to not interfere with mortals and warfare again, though Diana tells him that he caused the chaos and can't just walk away. She also asks where Steve is, but Ares doesn't know and vanishes.

    Etta appears and scolds Diana (ugh) but suddenly gets shot. Luckily, her vest protected her, but Diana defends her from further gunfire until other agents pull her to safety. Diana confronts one of the attackers and tries to reason with him, but they are soon shot at by the others. Diana defends the soldier (my favorite scene of this so far; "Whose side are you on?!" "Yours, until the danger has passed!") and finds Ares flying in the sky. He's unwilling to cooperate, and Diana wonders what she's done.

    Meanwhile, the mythological creatures are still guiding Steve to their "leader." Horny pegasus offers to let Steve ride him (teehee). The others don't seem to care that Steve is wounded except for Eirene, the minotaur. She helps him up and tells the others they should wait for him. But it turns out they're almost to their destination, and they see Aphrodite on her throne attended by two naiads in a lake.

    * * * * *

    So, not a lot happened in this issue, which is unfortunate because while the first two were a bit slower paced as well, I felt more satisfied with them. But this issue was by no means awful.

    Art still leaves much to be desired. Aphrodite in particular looks a mess, a far cry from what she should be (or even what she *will* be on Terry Dodson's future cover). I do love how even though they've only appeared in three issues, the pegasus, the griffin, and the minotaur have all been given promising and entertaining characterization. After this issue, I'm far more invested in that storyline than the Wonder Woman/Ares one.

    Although I'm still interested to see where Ares's story is going, of course. I just we get more than just conversations on philosophical differences between he and Diana in the future (and, let's be real, the fight scenes haven't been all that stellar, though that's once again an issue with the art).

    What did the rest of you think?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Usual flaws continue to be the decompression (at least we get three issues next month) and the art. Though I think the latter was improved from last issue.

    Other than that, Diana's displays of power in the early pages continue to be effective, as does her commitment to not engage in violence if it can be avoided. And her commitment to protecting everyone, even soldiers not on her side. And I love the while Ares's regret, from his perspective, is perhaps genuine, he's still a God and is naturally inclined to be overwrought and self centered even when he's feeling guilty. Diana makes a great point that his desire for redemption doesn't automatically absolve him of responsibility, and just stopping is not enough when he could be doing more to help. I also like how the art evokes the Perez design with the glowing red eyes when he gets angry. I think he's heading back towards villainy even though he may not want to. It's just in his nature.

    I continue to be lukewarm on Etta. She is perhaps being a bit harsh on Diana, but this is a tense situation she's in even without superhuman interference and the latter is making things worse. I really want Etta to be fun again, but it wouldn't be appropriate in this story. It would probably be best not to have Etta in this occupation to begin with, but that's not on Wilson (and really not on Rucka or even Perez, this goes waaaaaaay back to pre-Crisis).

    While the art is letting her down compared to the Dodson cover, I love Aphrodite's reveal on that last page. Just chilling in nothing but a long shirt on a hastily made throne consisting of an old office chair with some flowers on it lol. She doesn't seem "pissed" despite what the solicits were saying. And the mythological creatures continue to be entertaining. Eirene getting more panel time by talking to Steve makes me continue to think she will be meeting Ferdinand at some point, and Cadmus possibly propositioning Steve in his own horse-way was amusing. At least he was up front about it and not a creeper like Comet lol.

  3. #3
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    I liked that Aphrodite's shirt had her symbol, a swan. In fact I liked the whole book, Wilson has me firmly on board!

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I liked that Aphrodite's shirt had her symbol, a swan. In fact I liked the whole book, Wilson has me firmly on board!
    Is it a swan or a dove? Either way, it's nice.

    I wonder if the flowers are something associated with her as well. The only one I know is red roses, which I don't think those were (would have to look at it again). They may just be generic comic book flowers lol.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I start to get a feeling to Wilson's approach to the story right now. It's not so much one big huge confrontation as the prologue to several interrelated largely philosophical conflicts. I expect more sparring, both physical and verbal, with the gods in coming issues. In a way, I like that Diana is depicted as the only one who isn't certain here and set up to question the assumptions of all the sure and certain people around her. The way she struggles to keep everyone around her safe is handled well. In a way, the other characters in the book (perhaps best articulated by Etta) seek peace through security. Diana seeks security through peace.

    I agree that Etta Candy just feels off here compared to how she is depicted classically. And I blame Rucka for that. Pérez kept her in staff and clerical positions, even when he put her in the military. Rucka had the chance for a clean reboot, and put Etta in command and frontline slots. And sunglasses are so not Etta.

    But Diana's personality also feels off. I think it's a combination of Nord's poor skills in drawing her (I neither like how he draws her facial expressions nor her poses) and that Wilson doesn't really have a good grasp of her voice yet. Writing a superhero who has doubts about his or her ethical and moral values is a high-wire act.

    I wonder where the kid who guided Cadmus, Eirene, and the faun went, or if he stayed with the other fauns and nymphs in the old ruined temple. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns up later on.

    I do have some consistency quibbles. Back in the first issue, Diana disarmed two armed soldiers by cutting their guns with her lasso. Here she attaches her sword to it to cut their weapons.

    Aphrodite is associated with roses, myrtles, anemones, and apples. She was also associated with lettuce and pomegranates, though she shared the last one with several other goddesses.

  6. #6
    Spectacular Member VonHammersmark's Avatar
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    This butch black Etta Candy in a kevlar vest and cargo pants is emblematic of Rucka's preternatural ability to sap the fun out of everything. Sharp had drawn an awesome Syd Mead-inspired office for Veronica but Rucka was like "no no no, it needs to be less Silicon Valley and more quote 'conservative' ". You can probably guess why

    As for G. Willow Wilson, her story is obviously about US interference in the Middle East and she's still trying to figure out how to tell it in Wonder Woman/superhero format
    Last edited by VonHammersmark; 12-13-2018 at 06:21 AM.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonHammersmark View Post
    As for G. Willow Wilson, her story is obviously about US interference in the Middle East and she's still trying to figure out how to tell it in Wonder Woman/superhero format
    While that is one interpretation of how Ares acts that is near at hand, it's not necessarily the only one. And Wilson picks up some more elements.

    We have Etta defending the current regime because they have a treaty in place and view them as a guarantoor of stability. There are lots of cases of similar interventions in the post-Second World War era, not all of them involving the USA.

    Ares intervening in a latent conflict and breaking it wide open, and then leave when things turns out complex and messy can be interpreted as the USA in Iraq or Afghanistan, but the EU (and allies) in Libya also fits. And on an entirely different level, Tim Hanley had a very interesting read on Ares:

    These white male saviors who saunter in and spout the lingo only to turn away when the people who have actually been doing the work deign to challenge them in any way? It’s painfully common, unfortunately, and I think we see something similar here with Ares. He’s trying to help a worthy cause, but in the wrong ways and only to make himself feel good. When it feels good no longer, he leaves.
    So what we are seeing here are really personifications on various extreme patterns of behaviour: stability and order above all else from Etta; arm all the oppressed from Ares which is then replaced by justice must be blind and passive (ie an isolationist stand). With Diana in the middle trying to work out the truth of it all. You can read it as a critique of the USA, but that's mainly because the USA is the most powerful and involved actor in the world in the post-Cold War era. Also note that the USA is hardly isolationist right now, and haven't been since the Second World War. It's a strong current in US the political landscape, though.
    Last edited by kjn; 12-13-2018 at 08:15 AM.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonHammersmark View Post
    This butch black Etta Candy in a kevlar vest and cargo pants is emblematic of Rucka's preternatural ability to sap the fun out of everything.
    Wait a minute, let's not blame Greg Rucka for G. Willow Wilson's characterization of Etta Candy. Rucka's Etta was the most polite military commander in history. She was very capable, but liked to flirt and wear flowery sun dresses in her off time and introduced Diana to the joys of day drinking margaritas. She wasn't Wilson's grouchy and gruff complainer. In fact the last time we saw Etta was in Shea Fontana's run where she danced at weddings when she wasn't taking down bad guys. This new version is all on Wilson.

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member VonHammersmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    While that is one interpretation of how Ares acts that is near at hand, it's not necessarily the only one. And Wilson picks up some more elements.

    We have Etta defending the current regime because they have a treaty in place and view them as a guarantoor of stability. There are lots of cases of similar interventions in the post-Second World War era, not all of them involving the USA.

    Ares intervening in a latent conflict and breaking it wide open, and then leave when things turns out complex and messy can be interpreted as the USA in Iraq or Afghanistan, but the EU (and allies) in Libya also fits. And on an entirely different level, Tim Hanley had a very interesting read on Ares:



    So what we are seeing here are really personifications on various extreme patterns of behaviour: stability and order above all else from Etta; arm all the oppressed from Ares which is then replaced by justice must be blind and passive (ie an isolationist stand). With Diana in the middle trying to work out the truth of it all. You can read it as a critique of the USA, but that's mainly because the USA is the most powerful and involved actor in the world in the post-Cold War era. Also note that the USA is hardly isolationist right now, and haven't been since the Second World War. It's a strong current in US the political landscape, though.
    No the United States is certainly not isolationist but now Trump wants to withdraw the american troops from Syria after Uncle Sam (and its allies) basically threw the middle east into disarray over the last 15 years displacing millions of refugees and flooding Europe with muslims in a double whammy. And the missile Ares threw at those civilians = US airstrikes on Iraq/Syria, I mean come on, this IS about the US foreign policy in the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Wait a minute, let's not blame Greg Rucka for G. Willow Wilson's characterization of Etta Candy. Rucka's Etta was the most polite military commander in history. She was very capable, but liked to flirt and wear flowery sun dresses in her off time and introduced Diana to the joys of day drinking margaritas. She wasn't Wilson's grouchy and gruff complainer. In fact the last time we saw Etta was in Shea Fontana's run where she danced at weddings when she wasn't taking down bad guys. This new version is all on Wilson.
    Wilson's characterization on Etta is perfectly in keeping with Greg Rucka's in my opinion, G.I Etta was his doing, I'll refer you to issue #24

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonHammersmark View Post
    Wilson's characterization on Etta is perfectly in keeping with Greg Rucka's in my opinion, G.I Etta was his doing, I'll refer you to issue #24
    It was Perez's and earlier pre-Crisis writers before it was Rucka's.
    And her attitude is entirely appropriate considering the situation.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonHammersmark View Post
    No the United States is certainly not isolationist but now Trump wants to withdraw the american troops from Syria after Uncle Sam (and its allies) basically threw the middle east into disarray over the last 15 years displacing millions of refugees and flooding Europe with muslims in a double whammy. And the missile Ares threw at those civilians = US airstrikes on Iraq/Syria, I mean come on, this IS about the US foreign policy in the Middle East



    Wilson's characterization on Etta is perfectly in keeping with Greg Rucka's in my opinion, G.I Etta was his doing, I'll refer you to issue #24
    There Etta was upset Barbara Ann was abandoned, she was right, Diana admitted it and her outburst ended up saving Veronica Cale's life.

    Here Wilson is using her for another point of view of war and it's perfectly understandable. George Perez invented militant Etta Candy, not Greg Rucka.

  12. #12
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    10 responses going on 11 in this thread. That seems an indicator of the lack of interest I feel this title has right now. The fights seem forced. The dialogue is tedious. I am liking very little about this run so far.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    @gbshabo: I think you're judging too quickly here. There are no big revelations to talk about, most people here seems to agree on the broad strokes, and expressing their differences civilly. So there are no quarrels or real mysteries to discuss, and certainly not the big complaints that poorly handled characters would generate.

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Likewise I like this overall. If I had any complaint it would be that this is a build up issue. The fight was good, the conflict is honestly refreshing compared to some of the more bland storylines we have had recently. And the way Ares has been depicted certainly holds my interest.

  15. #15
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think that providing Wonder Woman a monologue box is a mistake.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    I don't dislike the MCU films because they're Marvel branded, I dislike them because they're bad films.

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