Wonder Woman #60 - The Just War, Pt. 3 (Spoilers)

[SiegePerilous02]

I think judging the overall interest or satisfaction of a readership as a whole based on a forum is also a mistake.
Generally, when nothing controversial is happening (like Azzarello's changes or Rucka's changes of said changes, or Robinson or Finch's outright suckiness) things are generally quiet in the issue discussion threads. Even then, it's usually the same handful of things people discuss over and over.

[LordUltimus]

I'm starting to think that providing Wonder Woman a monologue box is a mistake.

Why?

10char.

[Pinsir]

Why?

10char.

Has it really ever been done well? I'm honestly not sure, but to me, the character tends to work better when she is more enigmatic.

[kjn]

Has it really ever been done well? I'm honestly not sure, but to me, the character tends to work better when she is more enigmatic.

Huh. That's a really interesting observation that I think needs some pondering. Not that I necessarily disagree, but that there is a lot to unpack.

I do think that you can do introspection with Wonder Woman, but it probably requires better art than Nord provides right now. It is also really tricky, because Wonder Woman is even further outside what we view of normal human norms than even Batman or Superman, given that she was raised in a matriarchal utopia.

Personally, I read Wilson's monologue boxes as somewhat meta, that is commenting on the way that she has been depicted and handled by writers like Azzarello or Robinson, and made to carry a sword. But I certainly understand if I'm atypical with that reading.

(Also, comics are probably one of the worst mediums to do introspection in. Not that it can't be done, but everything else seems superior in at least some regards.)

[Celgress]

I'll give it four stars. I really enjoyed the issue. I thought it was solid.

[Joao]

Has it really ever been done well? I'm honestly not sure, but to me, the character tends to work better when she is more enigmatic.

I'm usually okay and sometimes happy with Simone's monologues, she made the character really warm. Rucka also did it in Wonder Woman: Rebirth #1 very nicely. But yeah, it's usually a huge mistake. Especially when writers use the "describe exactly what's happening on the panel" type of monologue. Let's leave that in the 80's. Also, Wilson seems to use the verb "to wonder" a lot - maybe she got that from Rucka, but his brilliance lies in the different uses of the word, which doesn't happen here.

The issue was not great for me. Wonder Woman and Ares are not having their best interactions (although the baby was an okay addition). They come and go and come and go around the same situation and I don't see the development. The best thing are still the mythological creatures having more personality than anyone on the book.

[kjn]

I have no idea on the actual timings involved, but given that Wilson has said that she didn't start to get a handle on Diana's voice until issue #8, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't have much time to research and plan before being tossed into the deep end. Given that she jumped straight into what I believe will turn into a long and ambitious project ("superhero Sandman") might have been a tad too optimistic.

In comparison, it shows that Tynion had been thinking over and planning his JLD run before he likely even pitched it: he knew exactly what he wanted out of each character, both how to push them out of their comfort zones, make them appear at their best, and what their roles would be.

But in any case I believe that current comic book writing is too dominated by the long arcs. They take too long time to conclude (half a year for six issues with one a month), provide too few jump-in points for new readers, are tricky to manage, and sensitive for delays. If Wilson had started with a run similar to Orlando's five issues, she might have been off to a better start by having gained a better grasp of Diana's voice and made the Wondy fandom used to her storytelling style.

[brettc1]

Usual flaws continue to be the decompression (at least we get three issues next month) and the art. Though I think the latter was improved from last issue.

But not by much, and honestly I no longer accept this as an excuse.

Looking at the copy of Avengers #11 and the issue of Justice League Dark that came out the same day, as well asand ALL the issues of Domino by Gail Simone that have come out, this is just very VERY thin writing. Decompression is simply not an excuse for this. Even the font for the word balloons looks like it's been made bigger so it takes up more space on the page.

Leaving that aside, the story is okay. Ares face turn seems way to abrupt though - like this whole moral crisis he and [for some reason] Diana seem to be sharing should have built up over a much longer period. Also, while she fights pretty well against Ares, Diana seems barely competent in other regards. The way Etta lectures her you'd think she just arrived off the island instead of having been here for years. There is only the most superficial similarities between the character here and and JLD this month.

If this and the last issue had been in ONE month's storytelling, I would give it a 3. As it is it gets 2 stars from me.

Final word - is Aphrodite SUPPOSED to look like Diana. I thought maybe it was deliberate, but then I remembered how we all thought Ares was Steve when he took of his helmet. So deliberate, or very generic artwork?

[SiegePerilous02]

But not by much, and honestly I no longer accept this as an excuse.

To those who have read Wilson's Ms. Marvel, Air or other stuff- was it decompressed like this? I did think issues 2 and 3 could have been combined into one issue, though it wasn't that bothersome when I read all three issues in one sitting last night. And honestly, it's not much worse than Rucka's and Azzarello's issues, especially with "the Lies" and "the Truth" for the former.

Leaving that aside, the story is okay. Ares face turn seems way to abrupt though - like this whole moral crisis he and [for some reason] Diana seem to be sharing should have built up over a much longer period. Also, while she fights pretty well against Ares, Diana seems barely competent in other regards. The way Etta lectures her you'd think she just arrived off the island instead of having been here for years. There is only the most superficial similarities between the character here and and JLD this month.

Diana is not barely competent in other regards. Steve is in danger and she's going to fly off and rescue him in a war zone, along with other civilians along the way. She is not going to stand by and do nothing. She stopped some snipers from killing a kid before Etta made an appearance, and (unknown to Etta) the conflict was being agitated by superhuman interference before Diana even showed up, and she's more equipped to deal with that. She is, without hesitation, making efforts to defend and save whomever she can regardless of which side they are on. But otherwise cannot magically solve the political problem in this country that Ares has made worse.

Final word - is Aphrodite SUPPOSED to look like Diana. I thought maybe it was deliberate, but then I remembered how we all thought Ares was Steve when he took of his helmet. So deliberate, or very generic artwork?

I'm going with generic art. Though it didn't even occur to me that she looked like Diana, what with the dark brown hair instead of black. I just thought "Oh, it's the Aphrodite from the Dodson cover, but drawn with poorer art."

[Last Son of Krypton]

That was the first issue of the new run that I liked. Still not a fan of how Diana is drawn. 😕

[brettc1]

To those who have read Wilson's Ms. Marvel, Air or other stuff- was it decompressed like this? I did think issues 2 and 3 could have been combined into one issue, though it wasn't that bothersome when I read all three issues in one sitting last night. And honestly, it's not much worse than Rucka's and Azzarello's issues, especially with "the Lies" and "the Truth" for the former.



Diana is not barely competent in other regards. Steve is in danger and she's going to fly off and rescue him in a war zone, along with other civilians along the way. She is not going to stand by and do nothing. She stopped some snipers from killing a kid before Etta made an appearance, and (unknown to Etta) the conflict was being agitated by superhuman interference before Diana even showed up, and she's more equipped to deal with that. She is, without hesitation, making efforts to defend and save whomever she can regardless of which side they are on. But otherwise cannot magically solve the political problem in this country that Ares has made worse.

She let Ares blow up a family, so her super speed seems to be rather dubious at this point. Ares wasn't actually escalating the conflict before Diana got there as far as I can tell - he deliberately sought Diana out. But Etta is clearly of the opinion that Diana is acting recklessly in going after Steve while they try to broker a cease fire.

Are her actions understandable? Certainly, but no necessarily excusable. If Diana's actions in looking for Steve threaten the cease fire then a lot more people than Steve could be hurt. I had forgotten she saved the child from snipers - probably because so far the story has been rather forgettable - but that's a different situation than breaking into the enemy fortress.

I'm going with generic art. Though it didn't even occur to me that she looked like Diana, what with the dark brown hair instead of black. I just thought "Oh, it's the Aphrodite from the Dodson cover, but drawn with poorer art."

I'm assuming that this is an upcoming cover.

[brettc1]

I'm usually okay and sometimes happy with Simone's monologues, she made the character really warm. Rucka also did it in Wonder Woman: Rebirth #1 very nicely. But yeah, it's usually a huge mistake. Especially when writers use the "describe exactly what's happening on the panel" type of monologue. Let's leave that in the 80's.

OR - the 80's were awesome and modern writers could learn a lot from how comic books were WRITTEN then, instead of being picture books you can leaf through in five minutes or less.

[Joao]

OR - the 80's were awesome and modern writers could learn a lot from how comic books were WRITTEN then, instead of being picture books you can leaf through in five minutes or less.

LOL. The 80's were awesome indeed, and I would prefer a George Pérez WW comic than any of Diana's stories that came out in 2018. BUT storytelling in comics have changed, right? It became more elaborate and the uses of text and image are more than the former describing what's happening in the latter. It's just a shame some creators don't use these possibilities as well as they could.

[My Two Cents]

All decades have there good and bad.
For every real good comic released in the 80's there was also plenty of bad comics
being made and that has continued on through this week.
Publishers adjusted how they would produce single issues because of trades
and (I imagine) data showing more books can be sold if the story can be read in under X amount of minutes.
Unlike the 80's when there was no internet and many other forms on entertainment and for sure trades
were still another good fifteen years away from becoming a building foundation in the comic book market
(as with digital another twenty+ years)

[brettc1]

LOL. The 80's were awesome indeed, and I would prefer a George Pérez WW comic than any of Diana's stories that came out in 2018. BUT storytelling in comics have changed, right? It became more elaborate and the uses of text and image are more than the former describing what's happening in the latter. It's just a shame some creators don't use these possibilities as well as they could.

Yes, now they are often just letting the artist tell the story while the writer throws in a few speech bubbles here and there. But good creative teams still work for a balance.

This issue doesn't show me that. But as I mentioned there are still plenty of books that actually give you a story to read rather than just look at, which is why I no longer accept the decompression argument as a valid reason for an issue with less than 50 words a page [yes, I counted].

It seems Ares was behind the fighting on one side. Not sure why Diana doesn't think he can lie in #59 since he doesn't have the lasso around him when she questions him. Maybe I could bump this current issue up to a 3, but I wouldn't go higher.