Spider-Man: Life Story By Chip Zdarsky & Mark Bagley

[CentralPower]

Is "Demon in a Bottle" still defining? Because the Iron Man of the movies did well enough without adapting it. It did borrow more ideas from Ellis' Extremis Run and other concepts.

In this case, you are saying that the old run (w/ "Demon in the Bottle") has faded more.

But, "Iron Man has a drinking problem" has been a thing for so long that even the jokes got old years ago. The references and understanding are just sort of there.

So what do you for a character who had defining moments in multiple eras and multiple ages and stages? How do you decide which happened when? In the case of the X-Men,obviously the Claremont run is defining, moreso than the earlier eras. In the case of Fantastic Four, the Lee-Kirby run, then the John Byrne run, and I guess the Jonathan Hickman run are defining. But Spider-Man has been unusually rich in terms of periods.

The longer a series runs for, the more chances it has to have defining moments. (This is why it is so difficult to accept that Peter Parker is, at most, only 30.)

And, before one of us trips over an obvious problem, we should agree that "defining" is not the same as "good".

Hickman's run on "Avengers" is excellent. But, it is a significant deviation in tone from most of Marvel, and the Avengers specifically. That is not defining. In contrast, Gruenwald's run on "Captain America" was defining, at least until Brubaker's run. But, it did not age well. (Truthfully, it was retrograde when it was published in the 80s.)

And you know DC everything is set in fake cities with little ties to real places and history. But Marvel has always been "the world outside your window" and that means that timeline will always be an ongoing problem.

If we assume "world outside your window", then we should accept that something published more than a decade ago (if not even less) is no long relevant. (Try selling that idea to fans. It will be a wasted effort.)

And today, the only Hawk character people care about is Hawkgirl. A character that originated as his love interest, and then made into his superhero partner, and ultimately overshadowed her boyfriend.

"Showed up on a cartoon and was described as...." is an easier sell than "travelling sideways through time and unwittingly co-exists with....re-incarnated space cop....ruled Egypt....no the other Golden Age one...."

[Revolutionary_Jack]

If we assume "world outside your window", then we should accept that something published more than a decade ago (if not even less) is no long relevant. (Try selling that idea to fans. It will be a wasted effort.)

A good story shapes reality and has impact on culture. So the entire Marvel revolution of the 60s by Lee, Kirby, Ditko had a real world impact and change and effect. The Night Gwen Stacy Died is credited to supposedly ending the Silver Age. So the audience that Marvel addresses is one that has been affected and defined by earlier stories. It's an example of that adage of "becoming a victim of one's success".

This by the way is a concept in literature that goes way back. Like Don Quixote is about how chivalric romances and stories aren't set in any real time and place but Don Quixote is set in then contemporary Spain. So when the author wrote Part 2, after Part 1 had become this bestseller and craze, but Don Quixote was still set in contemporary Spain, that meant he had to place Don Quixote in a world and setting where he had already become famous, so everywhere Don Quixote goes people come and tell him they read him in Part 1 and they want to see if he really is like he is in the book and so on.

In the case of Spider-Man he was originally a teenage superhero and that was part of the reason why he caught the zeitgeist in a big way. But for Spider-Man to be the teenage hero he has to be one in each generation. If we compare, say, Ultimate Spider-Man to Harry Potter, the great teenage hero of the 21st Century I don't think you can make a case and argue that Ultimate Peter meant as much to this generation as Harry Potter did. He did to a few readers undoubtedly but overall not as much.

Spider-Man has caught the zeitgeist in a few moments. Obviously the early issues, Mary Jane Watson's first appearances where she became this great breakout character, The Night Gwen Stacy Died, then you had Venom and Carnage, after that it would be the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie. Then Miles Morales. In only one of those moments was Spider-Man really a teenager (I guess he was one in the first half of the Spider-Man 1).

[Inversed]

That is actually consistent with the old 4:1 rule. A kid starting high school in fall of 2008 would read about a year's worth of Marvel page-time by the fall of 2012.

Those events could easily by fit in to a few years. It would be a *hectic* few years. But, it could be done.

A few years yeah, but I can't possibly see Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, Heroic Age, Avengers Vs. X-Men, Secret Wars, Civil War II, and Secret Empire all taking place within 2 years. I feel like 5-6 years is the much more believable.

The only reason to do a hard reboot is to escape continuity, which is pointless because A. Good writers use continuity as a tool, and don't make it a burden on readers trying to understand what's in front of them - B. the continuity you're trying to escape will just come back anyway as you publish dozens of books every month and creators have more incentives to rehash older, famous stories.

The longest and biggest fictional universe in history is what makes the line unique. It is a badge of honor. It is not a problem except when the less talented clearly make it so. And if they do shift to a reboot, it will just be an exercise in frustration as fans of less vital properties and characters have to wait for them to be reintegrated (or they just might not be) much of the old continuity eventually being brought back anyway, creating a more complicated continuity than if you just left things alone.

It would especially be of no benefit to Spider-Man, a franchise with a generally linear overall narrative that can still be briefly summarized despite there being decades of material.

This is a weird example to use, but I always compared reboots to how the Sonic The Hedgehog comics handled them. The book had to be rebooted TWICE within the span of about 5 years. Both attempts they tried to streamline the books to make them "more game friendly", but each time brand new comic characters, creations, & decisions make their way to the forefront. So no matter what you try to do with a reboot, the continuity will get muddled either way, so might as well make use of the continuity you do have, and make some great stories out of it.

Even if timeline of when exactly they took place is always screwy, Spider-Man's always been great with referencing and bringing back moments from all through his history and working them into the stories very well.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

So in ASM#14, MJ says Peter is in his mid-20s...i.e. 25-27, so that means ASM #1-220 happened when Peter was 15-22, The Stern-Defalco-Michelinie-JMS era happened between 22-25, Slott's run happened for at best a year and a half. The Clone Saga probably happened on a much smaller scale and a shorter period than before.

As time goes on the Slott-Spencer era will happen in a shorter period in that same age bracket...

[CentralPower]

Keep in mind, the way comics are paced, it can take *months* of real time to cover a few days of page time.

How many issues what "Spider-Geddon"? And, that was published over maybe 2 or 3 months? But, how much idle time was there between scenes? Similarly, some of the multi-issue tie-ins were set between issues of the main series.

Modern comic arcs tend to be tightly structured, and are set in the moment, rather than against a generalized background (as Silver Age comics were).

A good story shapes reality and has impact on culture. So the entire Marvel revolution of the 60s by Lee, Kirby, Ditko had a real world impact and change and effect. The Night Gwen Stacy Died is credited to supposedly ending the Silver Age. So the audience that Marvel addresses is one that has been affected and defined by earlier stories. It's an example of that adage of "becoming a victim of one's success".

I like comics as much as anyone. But, none of that had an impact outside of comics (maybe entertainment if you stretch it).

If you hold comics to the standard of "good stories shape reality" then comics fail.

A few years yeah, but I can't possibly see Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, Heroic Age, Avengers Vs. X-Men, Secret Wars, Civil War II, and Secret Empire all taking place within 2 years. I feel like 5-6 years is the much more believable.

I never understood how Marvel's New York City could still be standing after a year that included "Atlantis Attack" and "Inferno". (Never mind "Acts of Vengeance", which could not possibly have helped.)

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I like comics as much as anyone. But, none of that had an impact outside of comics (maybe entertainment if you stretch it).

But it did have. The theme song from the Spider-Man cartoon is part of the cultural memory, a song covered by classic rock acts like Ramones, Aerosmith and others. The first ever superhero crossover and one of the bestselling comics was Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man.

A novelist like Jonathan Lethem claims in a literary journal, "the first romantic loss for a lot of guys my age was Gwen Stacy’s death." Then of course Willi Smith a prominent real-life fashion designer, his last work and project was Mary Jane's wedding dress before he died of AIDS (the Annual came out two months after he died). Then of course Peter and MJ's wedding had that weird publicity stunt at Shea Stadium before an actual sports game. So an event like that is part of fashion history and sports history at the same time.

Likewise Venom was one of the biggest things in the 90s, as was Carnage.

If you hold comics to the standard of "good stories shape reality" then comics fail.

Well for one thing the real life tracking bracelet was inspired by Spider-Man (https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-urban...s-revealed-38/). Specifically the newspaper strip (https://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/06...ronic-tagging/).

There are other examples outside of Spider-Man. Like Carl Barks' Donald Duck comics inspired a lot of engineering gimmicks.

[Miles To Go]

SPIDER-MAN: LIFE STORY #3

CHIP ZDARSKY (W), MARK BAGLEY (A)

Cover by CHIP ZDARSKY

VARIANT COVER BY ACO

THE REAL-TIME LIFE STORY OF SPIDER-MAN CONTINUES!

It's the 1980s and Peter's life gets upended with wars both global and secret. And death stalks him at every turn. With a family and a world to protect, can he save everyone before it's too late?

32 pages, $4.99.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The grave alludes to KLH and the black costume is of that era and featured in KLH. And the 80s was the era of the anti-nuclear movement and the largest protests and nuclear fears were a huge part of the great 80s stories with TDKR and Watchmen having that as a major plot.

The "family" to protect is interesting as a tidbit. The big question of course is "who's the missus" and is there a kid?

[Miles To Go]

The grave alludes to KLH and the black costume is of that era and featured in KLH. And the 80s was the era of the anti-nuclear movement and the largest protests and nuclear fears were a huge part of the great 80s stories with TDKR and Watchmen having that as a major plot.

The "family" to protect is interesting as a tidbit. The big question of course is "who's the missus" and is there a kid?

Let's hope it's MJ.

So help me if they try to somehow supplant one of the best Peter/MJ moments in comics with Gwen I'll go f*cking spare.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Let's hope it's MJ.

So help me if they try to somehow supplant one of the best Peter/MJ moments in comics with Gwen I'll go f*cking spare.

I suppose we might learn more when we read the June solicitations.

[Scott Taylor]

I trust Chip either way to right a good story that is true to Peter's character

[Frontier]

The grave alludes to KLH and the black costume is of that era and featured in KLH. And the 80s was the era of the anti-nuclear movement and the largest protests and nuclear fears were a huge part of the great 80s stories with TDKR and Watchmen having that as a major plot.

The "family" to protect is interesting as a tidbit. The big question of course is "who's the missus" and is there a kid?

Given the timing I'd guess the "family" is Aunt May and Mary Jane.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I trust Chip either way to right a good story that is true to Peter's character

I wouldn't mind Peter and Gwen marrying first and then divorcing with MJ as the second wife and true ultimate partner. Or in-between Peter and Felicia have a passionate romance and Felicia finally gives birth to Peter's out-of-wedlock child in the way that Bill Mantlo once intended.

I actually think that Zdarsky might go for something really cruel. In the late 90s you had MJ's "death" when her airplane exploded, and then you had JMS do the 9/11 issue. What if Zdarsky decides to have Mary Jane be one of the passengers on the planes when 9/11 happens. Because obviously 9/11 is the big historical event of Book 5 (The 2000s) and JMS wrote the 9/11 issue.

[Scott Taylor]

I wouldn't mind Peter and Gwen marrying first and then divorcing with MJ as the second wife and true ultimate partner. Or in-between Peter and Felicia have a passionate romance and Felicia finally gives birth to Peter's out-of-wedlock child in the way that Bill Mantlo once intended.

I actually think that Zdarsky might go for something really cruel. In the late 90s you had MJ's "death" when her airplane exploded, and then you had JMS do the 9/11 issue. What if Zdarsky decides to have Mary Jane be one of the passengers on the planes when 9/11 happens. Because obviously 9/11 is the big historical event of Book 5 (The 2000s) and JMS wrote the 9/11 issue.

You know the thing I am most curious about? How OMD factors into this. Does the marriage happen only to later be reversed by the Devil in this story? Does Chip just ignore that whole fiasco? What about the Clone Saga of the 1990s, which was really just another OMD?

[Kevinroc]

You know the thing I am most curious about? How OMD factors into this. Does the marriage happen only to later be reversed by the Devil in this story? Does Chip just ignore that whole fiasco? What about the Clone Saga of the 1990s, which was really just another OMD?

I was actually wondering about Aunt May in this. Is she going to die in the 1990s story like she originally did during the 90s Clone Saga? It's hard to picture May being around throughout the entire mini.