Spider-Man: Life Story By Chip Zdarsky & Mark Bagley

[Minerboh]

Which characters are the Guardians of the Galaxy clones and failed legacies for? And my understanding is that the Guardians, to the extent that they had a sizable number of stories, never had anything like the Clone Saga affect and complicate their later use.

TLDR, the Guardians do not have the baggage that the Clone Saga do, that Ben Reilly and Kaine do.

To do Ben Reilly you need to do Miles Warren/Jackal, and to do him you need to kill Gwen Stacy. Well the only time they adapted the Death of Gwen it was in TASM-2 and that led to the worst Spider-Man movie and it confirmed the opinions of many that Gwen Stacy doesn't need to die in any context other than 616. The most commercially successful version of Gwen, ITSV, makes no reference to 121-122 and isn't Peter's love interest. And the ultimate thing is that human cloning as a concept is too bizarre and arcane to work in Spider-Man, it takes away from the kitchen sink street-level focus of Spider-Man.

And let's not forget that the Clone Saga is a terrible story.

It's one thing to be a failed legacy of a character (which either Kaine and especially Ben are) and it is quite another to be relevant. Guardians were not a thing until the movie. Bendis might have contributed but it was mostly the movie that brought them to the centre of attention.
As for both Kaine and Ben, their stories could be modified so they can be adaptable just like Venom (a character that required Spider-Man to make a interstellar journey to another planet, fight a deity, the entire Alien Costume Saga, Web Of #1 and the Death of Jean Dewolf arc before getting a cinematic outing).

[Frontier]

The Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon did Ben Reilly and Kaine, and that story was surprisingly done well. Not to say they're both on the level of Miles and such, but there is at least an example of them in an adaptation.

It was basically just Kaine with Ben Reilly's name tacked on, but, yeah, he probably had the best character development and arc of any character that season.

[Minerboh]

The Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon did Ben Reilly and Kaine, and that story was surprisingly done well. Not to say they're both on the level of Miles and such, but there is at least an example of them in an adaptation.

Agreed! My point is that with the right management, they can be Miles Morales level characters and have a cinematic feature.Both Ben and Kaine have their following, even from the days of the Clone Saga.
Kaine got his own spin off title thanks to Spider-Island and it was quite an enjoyable read.

[Kevinroc]

You might want to add the Superior Spider-Man epic into the 2010's as well.

How would that even work with the premise of this mini?

[LordUltimus]

Agreed! My point is that with the right management, they can be Miles Morales level characters and have a cinematic feature.Both Ben and Kaine have their following, even from the days of the Clone Saga.
Kaine got his own spin off title thanks to Spider-Island and it was quite an enjoyable read.

Does Sony have the rights to them?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's one thing to be a failed legacy of a character (which either Kaine and especially Ben are) and it is quite another to be relevant. Guardians were not a thing until the movie. Bendis might have contributed but it was mostly the movie that brought them to the centre of attention.

The logistics are more in favor of doing something new with unknown characters since it provides a total blank slate for film-makers. In that case James Gunn.

But Ben Reilly and Kaine don't provide any blank slate whatsoever. And in any case, if you are doing Spider-Man and have a length and breadth of history to choose from, the Clone Saga doesn't offer any attractions. As it is film-makers and others are reluctant and skeptical about using Black Cat because she's too similar to Catwoman who is on the whole a better character, and has two iconic film versions (Michelle Pfeiffer, Anne Hathaway) to measure against. So they prefer to avoid using her. And eventually, they might have Peter romance Kamala Khan, Mockingbird or Ultimate Kitty Pryde, since the same beats in the Peter/Black Cat romance can work with Peter involved with any female superhero and still prove the same point, i.e. Peter values civilian and private life too much.

And again if you want to do Spider-Man's legacy, Miles Morales is the more attractive choice. Instead of another white dude, one who on account of being blonde, is actually whiter if you can believe that, you have a contemporary modern reinterpretation of the kind of kid who in the 21st Century embodies Peter starting out. Miles also has a different set of powers with camouflage and the venom sting, whereas Ben Reilly has all of Peter's abilities. His costume is also unique and different.

The only long term contribution made by the Clone Saga is bringing Norman Osborn back from the dead, and tangentially being the origins of Spider-Girl. But aside from some nostalgia pieces and stories, the clone saga is best forgotten and done away with.

[Minerboh]

How would that even work with the premise of this mini?

Let's just wait to see how the mini will incorporate the rest.

[Miles To Go]

I doubt Superior will be included.

I do think Parker Industries will be a thing though...but one Peter manages to build on his own.

[Minerboh]

The logistics are more in favor of doing something new with unknown characters since it provides a total blank slate for film-makers. In that case James Gunn.

But Ben Reilly and Kaine don't provide any blank slate whatsoever. And in any case, if you are doing Spider-Man and have a length and breadth of history to choose from, the Clone Saga doesn't offer any attractions. As it is film-makers and others are reluctant and skeptical about using Black Cat because she's too similar to Catwoman who is on the whole a better character, and has two iconic film versions (Michelle Pfeiffer, Anne Hathaway) to measure against. So they prefer to avoid using her. And eventually, they might have Peter romance Kamala Khan, Mockingbird or Ultimate Kitty Pryde, since the same beats in the Peter/Black Cat romance can work with Peter involved with any female superhero and still prove the same point, i.e. Peter values civilian and private life too much.

And again if you want to do Spider-Man's legacy, Miles Morales is the more attractive choice. Instead of another white dude, one who on account of being blonde, is actually whiter if you can believe that, you have a contemporary modern reinterpretation of the kind of kid who in the 21st Century embodies Peter starting out. Miles also has a different set of powers with camouflage and the venom sting, whereas Ben Reilly has all of Peter's abilities. His costume is also unique and different.

The only long term contribution made by the Clone Saga is bringing Norman Osborn back from the dead, and tangentially being the origins of Spider-Girl. But aside from some nostalgia pieces and stories, the clone saga is best forgotten and done away with.

All of these you are mentioning regarding the powers and the costume and the director can be applied for Kaine and Ben as well.

[Minerboh]

I doubt Superior will be included.

I do think Parker Industries will be a thing though...but one Peter manages to build on his own.

Probably true but let's see something else.
The mini seems to be tangling Peter's biggest events in every decade. Superior was the biggest event in the 2012. We still feeling the repurcussions of Superior to this very day.

[Miles To Go]

Probably true but let's see something else.
The mini seems to be tangling Peter's biggest events in every decade. Superior was the biggest event in the 2012. We still feeling the repurcussions of Superior to this very day.

Peter would be far too old to be taken over by Otto though, and I'd say Spider-Verse has had the biggest impact on the franchise since then. An elderly Peter could be attacked by an inheritor and saved by the Web Warriors, and in doing so, he learns on a cosmic level how important being Spider-Man is.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

All of these you are mentioning regarding the powers and the costume and the director can be applied for Kaine and Ben as well.

I'll grant you that unlikelier things have come to happen and passed. My feeling is that a few unlikely things happening doesn't mean every unlikely thing will happen. But generally speaking, film-makers know that just because something had an effect on the comics that doesn't mean that transposing it will have the same effect. The Night Gwen Stacy Died is Spider-Man's greatest story, by rights TASM-1 and TASM-2 should have been great and yet they failed. People didn't like Gwen dying in the second film...and the reason for that is that her character was never all that deep and special and the main point of that story was that Peter was moving on from her to Mary Jane. Not within the story but overall that's what its about. And Gwen Stacy and The Night Gwen Stacy Died doesn't work without Mary Jane. The movies tried to spin that Gwen was Peter's ultimate girlfriend and they gave her Mary Jane's traits and characteristics, and the whole knowing his secret and being his confidant they stole from both 616 and Ultimate MJ, and the end result is that when they killed her, they made Peter too much of a failure, and his story too depressing, that nobody could buy he'd move on and be happy. And once you cross that, Spider-Man dies as a character.

In the case of Ben Reilly, people liked him as a character for a function and role he wasn't intended for and that came entirely by accident. Nobody says Ben Reilly is the real Peter Parker and the one we are following is some clone...nobody insists that Ben Reilly be called Peter and so on. The reason people like Ben and the stories is that that marketing insisted they extend the Clone Saga and spin more stuff out of it, and that led to lost Years and other stuff. The minute they made the clone switch, interest in Ben Reilly died overnight and sales tanked.

If all people like is that Ben Reilly be a spider-person and blonde...you have Spider-Gwen occupying that niche.

[Minerboh]

Peter would be far too old to be taken over by Otto though, and I'd say Spider-Verse has had the biggest impact on the franchise since then. An elderly Peter could be attacked by an inheritor and saved by the Web Warriors, and in doing so, he learns on a cosmic level how important being Spider-Man is.

Agreed for Spider-Verse but Superior was also an event of equal importance. We will see. Maybe they will include both. Time will tell.

[Kevinroc]

Does Sony have the rights to them?

Yes. Sony has the rights to the entire Spider-Man universe of characters. Even characters created after the contracts were signed. (That's why they're talking about putting Silk in a movie.)

[Snoop Dogg]