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  1. #76
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Can we have a beer sometime?
    LOL I'm down
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  2. #77

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    when does this come out, again?

  3. #78
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    when does this come out, again?
    Starts in March.
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  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Starts in March.
    This series has a lot of potential. If it works it could be a story up there in the pantheon with Whatever Happens to the Man of Tomorrow, but if it doesn't, it's basically going to be I guess a different version of Spider-Man Reign. More than that, this series is about why Spider-Man should age and should grow up and not be in high school or be about youth. If it's a great story it could sell and get more people behind that idea. So a good deal is actually riding on this than people might assume.

    It's an idea of a story you can only do with Spider-Man. Spider-Man and other Marvel characters originated in a real social period and history and the early comics are definitely unashamed products of the '60s and '70s. Whereas Superman and Batman owing to both living in these fantasy cities and so on, aren't really tied to a period aside from when they did WW2 propaganda. And both Superman and Batman have greatly outlived their original audience and roots whereas Spider-Man is a young enough character where that hasn't yet happened.

    Roger Stern mentioned in a Crawlspace Podcast that Tom Brevoort and he once discussed doing a Real-Time Aging Spider-Man but they saw the project as a joke and to them it demonstrated the absurdity of having Spidey grow up. And at best they saw it as jokey What-If material. But Zdarsky and Bagley are obviously taking this seriously and putting more thought in it.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 01-23-2019 at 08:40 AM. Reason: change

  5. #80
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    Is it going to be easily assumed that the 80s issue is gonna have Peter in the black suit whether symbiotic or cloth. maybe have a appearance of Hobgoblin.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    Is it going to be easily assumed that the 80s issue is gonna have Peter in the black suit whether symbiotic or cloth. maybe have a appearance of Hobgoblin.
    We don't know for sure. Chip Zdarsky said that the project was about inserting Spider-Man into actual history and showing him change as and when society changed. But I don't know if it's meant to signify and represent the entire 616 Continuity itself. Zdarsky remember has an indie comics background and his take on Spider-Man in PP:SSM is fairly arty in parts, and while it does touch on continuity and so on, it's still more or less its own thing. This doesn't feel like a fan project per se, it feels like an Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman kind of thing.

    Like Issue #1 is supposed to be about the Vietnam War, but the Vietnam war was never really dealt with in any significant way in Spider-Man's titles in the '60s. The big Vietnam story, Flash returning wit some amount of trauma, and flashing back to this romance with Sha Shan came in the '70s, a year or two before Gwen died. In the Lee-Ditko and Lee-Romita era, when the war was dealt with, it was done with indifference. Like when Flash went to Vietnam, Peter and his friends waved him goodbye, without any protest or criticism about the war itself. So already Issue #1 isn't representative of that era. Issue #2 is set in the '70s and you have a Disco theme on the cover and Disco did take off big in New York in the '70s but again the Peter-Gwen romance in the pages didn't touch on it. The big disco reference is the Wein era, when MJ takes Peter dancing and they slow dance to their song...which is "Kung Fu dancing" to Peter's surprise and bafflement.

    So this is already a little out of synch. Spider-Man's comics never perfectly intersected with the periods in which it was set. When Lee-Ditko started their portrayal of New York and high school was pretty out of step, and then when Lee-Romita came in, Mary Jane Watson became the first real character to represent the '60s, and even then the whole Coffee Bean thing was more '50s and Archie comics and so on. Flash Thompson went to Vietnam, and after BND is a Gulf War veteran...which creates its own mess.

    If we are going to do New York in the '80s, then it would have to touch on the AIDS crisis which was a big thing at the time and it was never touched on in Spider-Man at the time. The only thing close to that it is the fact that Willi Smith, the African-American LGBT Fashion designer, ended up designing Mary Jane's wedding dress, appearing in the Annual, and then he died of AIDS two months before the Annual was printed, with MJ's wedding dress being the last thing he did. Since Mary Jane became a runway model in the '80s and the fashion industry was affected by AIDS, you could use her as a viewpoint character to deal with that. Roderick Kingsley was also a fashion designer and mogul and was MJ's boss so maybe you could use that to discuss that. https://slate.com/human-interest/201...s-victims.html

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I'm not going to lie: Gwen Stacy was a horrible girlfriend to Peter. She constantly worried over him, then hated him, then hated Spider-Man, kept ghosting on him, slept with his best friend's father...why do people like her?
    Dude, you just triggered so many people!
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  8. #83
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Dude, you just triggered so many people!
    Lol I can see. But I stand by what I say, even if I love Spider-Man: Blue.
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  9. #84
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    Not a huge fan of Zdarsky. But, the "Dark Knight meets Marvels" style premise is enough to lure my attention.

    I'm not going to lie: Gwen Stacy was a horrible girlfriend to Peter. She constantly worried over him, then hated him, then hated Spider-Man, kept ghosting on him, slept with his best friend's father...why do people like her?
    I am so ashamed of myself for never thinking to say this.
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  10. #85
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Not a huge fan of Zdarsky. But, the "Dark Knight meets Marvels" style premise is enough to lure my attention.



    I am so ashamed of myself for never thinking to say this.
    Lol! Apparently it's been a secret? Rev_Jack says it's not.
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  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Lol I can see. But I stand by what I say, even if I love Spider-Man: Blue.
    The objection was you mentioned Sins' Past. The first rule of the I-Hate-Gwen Club...we do not talk about Sins' Past. The second rule of the I-Hate-Gwen Club...we do not talk about Sins' Past. The third rule...same as the first two.

    It makes it harder to justify the case against Gwen when you use Sins' Past. It gives your opponent kryptonite to use against yourself. You know the whole "bad argument for a point of view I agree with". And it's unnecessary. The actual issues written when Gwen was alive in publications is sufficiently damning.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Lol! Apparently it's been a secret? Rev_Jack says it's not.
    There's a reason why most adaptations never use Gwen Stacy and when they do they radically alter her personality. Like Emma Stone Ultmate Mary Jane...Spider-Gwen is Ultimate Gwen Stacy if she was a drummer. Gwen Stacy in the Spectacular Cartoon...bits of Ultimate MJ but essentially someone brand new. Ultimate Gwen Stacy is basically an original character, and a goth/punk possibly lesbian must investigate further. And Bendis himself said in an interview with Wizard that Gwen in real-life was quite the B-word in the issues leading to her death.

    The reason is that she was phenomenally unpopular in her lifetime. You want proof of that. Do you know what is Mary Jane's first appearance in any media. It's the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon, and it's an episode in Season 3 (aired in 1970), which adapts the episode where MJ is a go-go dancer at one of Kingpin's nightclub fronts, and get this MJ is the niece of Captain Stacy. This was an episode produced and aired when Gwen was still alive and Mary Jane still upstaged her and took over her connection to Captain Stacy. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKAThso_LGE

    Animation is super-dated and quality is bad, but basically there you go. Everything people complained about Carlie Cooper being shilled and promoted down reader's throats...all of that was true for Gwen too.

    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Not a huge fan of Zdarsky. But, the "Dark Knight meets Marvels" style premise is enough to lure my attention.
    Same here...honestly if I had to choose someone to write this, i wouldn't have chosen Zdarsky. Someone like Ta-Nehisi Coates who loves Spider-Man, knows Spidey history, knows actual history of the last 60 years...or Zdarsky's old companion and friend Matt Fraction. Or, why not, Brian Michael Bendis himself (especially since you have Bagley). Even Ed Brubaker who wanted to write Spider-man but all he ever did was that What If story back in 2004.

    I like Zdarsky's work on SSM and its ambitious and all but I also find the jokes weird and so on. This is the most ambitious thing he's ever done.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 01-23-2019 at 12:01 PM. Reason: change

  12. #87
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    I mean, let's face it guys: Gwen is the Princess Peach of the Spider-Man universe.
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  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I mean, let's face it guys: Gwen is the Princess Peach of the Spider-Man universe.
    That's an insult to Peach. She was badass in that super mario game where she was playable and that happened very early.

    616 Gwen and Peter are basically the Ross and Rachel of Spider-Man...this totally non-functional and toxic couple that everyone thinks are made for each other but actually make each other terrible people. Whereas Peter and MJ are Han and Leia...only Peter is Leia and MJ is Han. Han and Leia were never intended at the start to be the couple but Lucas saw the chemistry and how the audiences liked them and basically said, they're it.

  14. #89
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    That's an insult to Peach. She was badass in that super mario game where she was playable and that happened very early.

    616 Gwen and Peter are basically the Ross and Rachel of Spider-Man...this totally non-functional and toxic couple that everyone thinks are made for each other but actually make each other terrible people. Whereas Peter and MJ are Han and Leia...only Peter is Leia and MJ is Han. Han and Leia were never intended at the start to be the couple but Lucas saw the chemistry and how the audiences liked them and basically said, they're it.
    It was a joke, Jack.
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  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I think with Marvel 2-In-One and now Invaders & seemingly Daredevil, Zdarsky has proven himself to not just be a one-trick pony mainly focusing on comedy, he's got the layers to handle a story of this scope. Honestly what this story's most reminding me of execution wise is Spider-Man/Human Torch. With each issue focusing on a different moment from an era, just in this case now recontextualized through a specific decade.

    I don't think he needs to be super extensive in Spider-Man history in order to tell this story, this isn't like Ed Piskor's X-Men Grand Design epics, though I would absolutely LOVE to see something like that for Spider-Man too.
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