Detective Comics 994 discussion

[Naked Bat]

Leslie's pacifism has, more often than not, not made any sense. A pacifist is someone who doesn't agree with violent means and will always use dialogue, but that doesn't mean a pacifist would let himself be killer or let other be harmed. I'm not even talking about war crimes Leslie (which was so over the top, it was borderline ridiculous), but no man's land Leslie was already a joke.

[millernumber1]

Leslie's pacifism has, more often than not, not made any sense. A pacifist is someone who doesn't agree with violent means and will always use dialogue, but that doesn't mean a pacifist would let himself be killer or let other be harmed. I'm not even talking about war crimes Leslie (which was so over the top, it was borderline ridiculous), but no man's land Leslie was already a joke.

It's fine to make the argument that this depiction of Leslie is an improvement - but acknowledging that it's a change, first, is important.

Whether you like her or not (and I did like her a lot in NML), I think if you remove that part of Leslie, you make her more generic and much less interesting. The tension between her and Bruce is reduced, and thus the dramatic potential is also reduced. She becomes "old family friend #102899" rather than "someone who loves me intensely but is deeply troubled by what I have devoted my life to."

That being said, if you think she was ridiculous, that's fair enough. Some liked her that way, though, in a ridiculous world of men wearing bat ears.

[Coco Loco]

Not a fan of the "bad" that made an appearance nor the ending which suggested a particular individual (though it may end up being a red herring).

Smells like a red herring to me, but we’ll see. I enjoyed seeing Batman doing actual detective work, but I was left wondering why a GCPD CSI couldn’t have done the same thing. I guess that’s the problem with those types of stories - it’s hard to make the hero sound smart without making everyone else sound dumb.

[Armor of God]

It's fine to make the argument that this depiction of Leslie is an improvement - but acknowledging that it's a change, first, is important.

Whether you like her or not (and I did like her a lot in NML), I think if you remove that part of Leslie, you make her more generic and much less interesting. The tension between her and Bruce is reduced, and thus the dramatic potential is also reduced. She becomes "old family friend #102899" rather than "someone who loves me intensely but is deeply troubled by what I have devoted my life to."

That being said, if you think she was ridiculous, that's fair enough. Some liked her that way, though, in a ridiculous world of men wearing bat ears.

Except its not a change at all, Tomasi barely used her and in his use of her she was being attacked by a weird monster thingy. There isn't enough of her characterization here to make some definitive statement about her and its not even the pre New 52 Leslie either. Snyder is the one who made her younger, he's already written a story involving her being the target of a serial killer previously where she accepted Batman's assistance.
I also agree that the extreme position she took in War Crimes is whats out of character for her. Its not like classifc Leslie prevented Batman and his pals from doing their work.
So frankly speaking neither Snyder nor Tomasi contradicted even classic Leslie barring War Crimes but that story was awful and it was there that "pacifist" Leslie allowed Steph to die and therefore should be ignored. Not to mention DC itself retconned that a few years later.

[nonsense man]

Finally a book in continuity that has batman acting competently again and that is not an elseworlds or justice league story

[Naked Bat]

It's fine to make the argument that this depiction of Leslie is an improvement - but acknowledging that it's a change, first, is important.

Whether you like her or not (and I did like her a lot in NML), I think if you remove that part of Leslie, you make her more generic and much less interesting. The tension between her and Bruce is reduced, and thus the dramatic potential is also reduced. She becomes "old family friend #102899" rather than "someone who loves me intensely but is deeply troubled by what I have devoted my life to."

That being said, if you think she was ridiculous, that's fair enough. Some liked her that way, though, in a ridiculous world of men wearing bat ears.

I don't think she was ridiculous, but I think she was too extrem, which made her behaviour really over the top sometimes.

[mr_crisp]

What is up with Batman's current costume change? I associate the blue and gray coloring with a light hearted Batman. And when did his trunks come back?

[Caivu]

Finally a book in continuity that has batman acting competently again and that is not an elseworlds or justice league story

"Competently" as in destroying aquarium property and flooding a crime scene for no good reason?

[Ying Ko]

Decent first issue. I loved Tomasi's Batman & Robin so I'll read the first arc at least.

[Eto]

Deliberately flooding a crime scene counts as competent detective work, I guess.

Still infinitely better than anything Tynion has done.

[bat1987]

Still infinitely better than anything Tynion has done.

Agreed 100%

[Caivu]

Still infinitely better than anything Tynion has done.

Uh, no. Tynion never had him act that stupid.

[Kurisu]

Still infinitely better than anything Tynion has done.

Two things can be bad.

[Caivu]

Edit: never mind.

[Armor of God]

Two things can be bad.

Yeah, the King and Tynion duo represent the worst Batman/Tec era in recent memory.