Black Widow (2019 series)

[Winterboy]

Captured again...

BWIDOW2019004-Crain.jpg

[millernumber1]

To my understanding, apparently the Waid/Samnee run was really Samnee's pitch from the get go. He'd script and draw it, and Waid would polish the dialogue. Black Widow was Samnee's baby.

I think I heard that. I think Noto may not have had as much of a drive for Edmondson's run, but he was a huge part of the storytelling as well.

Captured again...

BWIDOW2019004-Crain.jpg

Would NOT want to be on the other end of that stare.

[ed2962]

Well, I don't think this is anywhere close to Name of the Rose, but it's definitely on the level of the Waid and Edmondson runs in terms of writing. I really appreciate that it's not Red Room again. Not a huge fan of the "kill the snuff film people" plot, since that's a small crime thing, and I think a spy plot needs something bigger. If I were just here for Natasha killing people, maybe I'd be okay with that being the spine of the narrative, but I hope for a bit more than something that small. A villain worthy of Natasha's skills and rage.

I don't know that I agree that Nat is written as generic - I don't think she has a really strong voice, but I don't think she's replaceable with, say Mockingbird. A lot of that is just how tightly the Soskas have tied her to her recent history - and I don't know if I like that (since I hate the clone thing, though it's nice they also see it as something that has negative consequences) - but at least it's not Red Room One Million. I do hope we get some more connections - it's cool to see Tyger again, but I hope we get closer connections, and something good for the future.

I wish the art was as good as those two series. I mean, it's not bad here, but...

[MajorHoy]

There are quite a few things that seem a bit . . . uncertain . . . compared to past runs.

But, then again, one has to wonder what the hell was Marvel thinking when they let one writer take away her memories (and not just for an issue or two), then another writer got to kill her off (again, not just a temporary fake-out situation).

The idea of her being in a clone-body I guess is better than in a LMD body, but we'll just have to see where all this really goes in the long run, I guess, and whether the change is causing her to act differently or not. (She may have been programmed with Nat's memories, but is the body she inhabits fully matured or just quickly genetically matured or something?)

[millernumber1]

There are quite a few things that seem a bit . . . uncertain . . . compared to past runs.

But, then again, one has to wonder what the hell was Marvel thinking when they let one writer take away her memories (and not just for an issue or two), then another writer got to kill her off (again, not just a temporary fake-out situation).

The idea of her being in a clone-body I guess is better than in a LMD body, but we'll just have to see where all this really goes in the long run, I guess, and whether the change is causing her to act differently or not. (She may have been programmed with Nat's memories, but is the body she inhabits fully matured or just quickly genetically matured or something?)

The whole clone thing just infuriates me. But then, I believe in souls, so it would.

[MajorHoy]

The whole clone thing just infuriates me.

But, then again, after letting her get killed off in Secret (SHHH!!!) Empire Strikes!, options for bringing her back were probably a tad limited.

[millernumber1]

But, then again, after letting her get killed off in Secret (SHHH!!!) Empire Strikes!, options for bringing her back were probably a tad limited.

Not really. Magical zap of lightning from Thor's hammer! Scarlet Witch magic! Time travel shenanigans! (Heck, they had Generations with TONS of time travel shenanigans immediately after!)

[MajorHoy]

Not really. Magical zap of lightning from Thor's hammer! Scarlet Witch magic! Time travel shenanigans! (Heck, they had Generations with TONS of time travel shenanigans immediately after!)

But do those sound like solutions appropriate for Black Widow?

[millernumber1]

But do those sound like solutions appropriate for Black Widow?

They're just as appropriate as evil clone, in my mind. Especially the time travel, after Ellis's great one-shot with her.

[responsarbre]

Out of any solution, clones are fishiest because they come with the baggage that the clone isn't really the same as the original. And I don't think they've laid down the groundwork to convince us to put that aside, or that Natasha has been able to put that aside. It can make for some interesting stories, but it's really not where I would have gone with it.

If this series goes past five issues (they still haven't fully clarified whether it is???) I'm hoping they touch on it a bit more. Because I don't really feel like this is one of those continuity things that you can ignore and shove aside.

[ed2962]

I kinda feel that the best thing to do is ignore the whole clone thing and pretend it never happened. It was a dumb cheap shock tactic to kill her in the first place and the only other way to bring her back that makes any sense is to say that the BW who died was a clone/LMD/imposter. It's a can of worms that I'm not sure leads to better stories for Nat or helps expand her mythos. I'm afraid we'd just get a year of comics where she mopes around, "Who is the real Black Widow? Me or whatever died? Woe is me!"

[tliscord]

I’m suffering a clone headache. I think you’re right to ignore it. It just makes the buzzing noise in my head worse. That first Winter Soldier series right after Fear Itself, ( that Cap 7.3 prologue was fantastic ) ... well I was ready to sit by the fire, feet up, enjoying some fine port, and relishing in a long sumptuous Brubaker et al run with Nat and James. My bad... it’s been a hodge podge of segmented arcs most of which I found untenable. My bar was too high.

[Darthfury78]

I’m a massive fan of the Soska Sisters’ film work So was obviously really looking forward to this, it was the first comic I read this week and honestly feel really disappointed. It pretty much sums up my feelings about a lot of Marvel right now (Immortal Hulk is the big exclusion because that is doing everything perfectly!!) in that it has bland art, bland storytelling and tries too hard to be fun to the point of being dragged out of the story. It felt like this could be featuring any character other than Nat and aside from the finer details it would remain exactly the same. These feelings were reinforced when I then proceeded to read Gideon Falls, WicDiv and The Batman Who Laughs, all of which are perfect (and completely different) examples of how comics should be done.
Maybe I’m being too harsh, maybe I’ve just reached the end of my tether with the majority of what Marvel is putting out these days, but to me this was extremely bland and I have no interest in picking up the next issue.
Really hoping that this is an editorial issue as so much of Marvel’s current output feels this way (more fantastic books like Immortal Hulk and Lemire’s Sentry please!!!) rather than a show of the Soska’s comic writing ability. Hopefully we’ll get a creator owned series from them soon enough where they can do what they do best and be the Twisted Twins Of Horror!! (Still eagerly awaiting their Kickstarter book, I have no doubt it will be better than this!!)

Sometimes, a writer needs to mix up the pot full of stories from other Marvel titles to incorporate into The Black Widow. The stories are there. But the writers that Marvel hires do not seem to know that. This is a classic example of playing it safe and staying inside the box. In the real world, ideas are always changing much faster than fiction. Perhaps the writers should incorporate current real world events into the Black Widow that connects with the readers, the stories would not seem so repetitive...

[MajorHoy]

Sometimes, a writer needs to mix up the pot full of stories from other Marvel titles to incorporate into The Black Widow. The stories are there. But the writers that Marvel hires do not seem to know that. This is a classic example of playing it safe and staying inside the box. In the real world, ideas are always changing much faster than fiction. Perhaps the writers should incorporate current real world events into the Black Widow that connects with the readers, the stories would not seem so repetitive...

The downside of that, however, is it immediately dates the story and will have to later be changed, just like Iron Man no longer is connected with the Communists and the Viet Nam war; the Fantastic Four no longer took that dangerous (and stupid?) space flight because they didn't want the "Ruskies" to beat the U.S. in the race into space; Frank Castle is no longer a Viet Nam War vet; etc.

[Darthfury78]

The downside of that, however, is it immediately dates the story and will have to later be changed, just like Iron Man no longer is connected with the Communists and the Viet Nam war; the Fantastic Four no longer took that dangerous (and stupid?) space flight because they didn't want the "Ruskies" to beat the U.S. in the race into space; Frank Castle is no longer a Viet Nam War vet; etc.

I am talking about current events behind the scenes that are relevant such as the arms trade and political corruption. As far as The Fantastic Four goes, I would love to see them work alongside The Starjammers and exploring the Super Earths. Given the recent findings made by the Kepler satellite, this would make for excellent Fantastic Four stories because the material is not boring or out of date. Just our understanding of the universe whereby we all thought that Black Holes were fantasy, only to discover that there are real. The universe is a very strange place were anything's possible.