Too Many X-Men/Lack of Team Structure

[DragonflyJones]

The F4 and the x-men are two completely different group/team dynamic. its comparing apples to oranges really. I mean the one it literally called the fantastic FOUR and the other is a team of mutants "who fight for a world that hates and fears them"

It's not apples and oranges though. They're both fictional superhero teams in a comic book.

I was just making a point that just because they add on new characters doesn't mean core members don't exist

[lucius121]

It's not apples and oranges though. They're both fictional superhero teams in a comic book.

I was just making a point that just because they add on new characters doesn't mean core members don't exist

I think that's interesting since no one can agree on who these so called core members are, by your reasoning it would be the 05 but many would argue that Storm and Wolverine are also core members.

I think my point still stands some people who started with the early comics will say the 05 others who started with the 90s cartoon will include Storm, Logan and Rogue, people from my generation will include x-23 magik and Kurt.

[DragonflyJones]

I think that's interesting since no one can agree on who these so called core members are, by your reasoning it would be the 05 but many would argue that Storm and Wolverine are also core members.

I think my point still stands some people who started with the early comics will say the 05 others who started with the 90s cartoon will include Storm, Logan and Rogue, people from my generation will include x-23 magik and Kurt.

...so you agree there are core members. It's a bit of a fuzzy topic and I guess it's all about what we qualify as a "core member" but I would think most Xmen fans would agree the Gold & Blue teams are pretty much the core members along with Nightcrawler. Perhaps you didn't understand my F4 reference so allow me to try and use a different example

The Avengers run through different members all the time, but I think most would agree the core members include:
Cap, Thor, Ironman, Hawkeye etc.

The Teen Titans run through different members all the time, but I think most would agree the core members include:
Robin, Starfire, Cyborg etc.

It doesn't matter when you started reading. I was born in the 90s and I was still able to go back, read old issues, do my research and learn my history of the team. Some members have more significance than others and it's okay to admit that

[sungila]

“A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.”
― T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land

I think it could be really great to actually follow through on what so many creators approach but stop short of, end the X-Men, let go of the X, disband the armies and let the Mutant population in Marvel Universe be unbound to a sorely redundant habit of drawing its energy from a depleted and depleting finite resource.

Eventually this has to stop, you know how Wile E. Coyote overruns the cliff and keeps going for a awhile until he realizes there's no solid ground beneath him? The roadrunner waves from the edge of the canyon, and then he finally falls and that fall takes a long time...but usually the perspective is from that place where he comes into his realization...we, the audience, see him drop...the expanse increases as he diminishes into that tiny cloud of dust...finally back on solid ground.

This should happen to the X-Men.

Those characters who have earned it could be given long form solo books that finally fill out their personal potential. The Avengers and even the Avengers members (Thor, Hulk, Captain America etc.) have done this and by doing this have kept the possibility of a 'team' worthwhile and generative rather than contained, claustrophobic and off-the-cliff delusional...bent on a prize it already passed and missed.

Yea, let the X-Men disband and if there is to be a team, that team can be composed of an ANAD Genisis of characters that somehow salvage some kind of meaningful purpose from a really well written permanent final end to the X and the Men that is the Mutants in Marvel U (final as final can be in comics, because Wile E. Coyote of course recovers and eventually is bound to fall and fall again) yet maybe it'd be a good idea to let this (never gonna happen idealistic) end of the X-Men have some legitimate time for the fans and franchise to truly die...at least die long enough for things to have their proper seasons of renewal. Let there be a long winter.

Focusing on what's good now and could be so much better with the 'X-Men' in the comics...without the need for and impossibility of there ever being a core team that could in any way truly contain or represent this fantastic expansive population of many and many and many...it's impossible...the more it's forced the more it corrupts what was 'good' about the second genesis' ANAD representations of the threatened diversity of the globally and locally and personally disenfranchised.

No more X-Men.

People are just people and mutants are already in need of more appropriate terms and vocabularies for themselves as individuals who come from a shared legacy but should not be forced or bound to embody a concept of their history in defense, defeat or desperation. That history begins before the X-Men and is greater than the X-Men.

Framing HIS-story, Xavier, Gold and Blue and Generation X or whatever...is what HE does in order to continue what HE (the MAN, the closed system, the bureaucracy) does in order to do what he does and wants to be. HE is and was and only can conceive in HIS terms...this is this was this is this so there, for HIM exclusively. Standing from his cliff...or border wall.

The fallen. Wile E. Coyote included doesn't fall and die, in the panel and panels it is the end of that hunt, that chase...but from the dust...comes a new same old hunger and pursuit...but with a new blueprint for hope and failure.

In creation stories...it's not that simple...and it certainly is FINAL and immemorial and never comes back from...the fall is from...Coyotes, tricksters, mutants...they're the heroes and anti-heroes of creation stories...even in the scientific ones of extinctions and dawns of new ages. Even the earth is layers...like a comic book...like the air and atmosphere...

No more X-Men.

Just mutants and people and NEW stories.

[Atomic Mongoose]

I swear to god the stock "dream X-team roster" for posters on CBR consists of 3 redundant power sets, 3 redundant personalities, 3 gay dudes, plus Maggott or Feral.
"THIS will FIX the X-BOOKS!!!!"

[lucius121]

(deleted reply)

[BroHomo]

I swear to god the stock "dream X-team roster" for posters on CBR consists of 3 redundant power sets, 3 redundant personalities, 3 gay dudes, plus Maggott or Feral.
"THIS will FIX the X-BOOKS!!!!"

I've seen worse lineups... why not try this? lol

[frostedemma]

I swear to god the stock "dream X-team roster" for posters on CBR consists of 3 redundant power sets, 3 redundant personalities, 3 gay dudes, plus Maggott or Feral.
"THIS will FIX the X-BOOKS!!!!"

The gayer the merrier so why not

[Username taken]

The X-Men suffer from lack of identifiable X-Men. Meaning every time a writer comes up on a book, he wants to throw whatever random mutants on the team. The writer stays on for little more than a few months (okay a year) and the lineup fall apart.

In the 80s the X-Men worked out because they had a stable lineup that slowly changed. Even in the 90s, for the most part they had just the blue and gold teams and the line ups did not change. Post Morrison it's been a bit of a disaster.

I think Marvel needs to identify who the CORE X-Men are, and make just TWO teams. And keep these lineups LONG term. Some of the characters should go to a reconstituted Excalibur team too.

Gold team.

Phoenix (Jean)
Storm(who is a goddess)
Nightcrawler
Iceman
Gambit
Monet
Colossus
Sunspot

Blue Team
Cyclops
Wolverine
Rogue
Polaris
Magik
Gentle
Kwannon
Jubilee

For both teams I tried to create a diversity of power sets and of characters. I didn't want to make say an all male or a female team, or an all white team.

Excalibur
Captain Britain
Meggan
Moonstar
Psylocke
Angel
Trinary
Maggot

X-Force
Cable
Domino
Warpath
Boom Boom/Meltdown
Karma
Magma
Thorn

X-Factor
the Cuckoos
Havok
Prodigy
Madrox
Wolfsbane
Armor
Banshee (Theresa aka Morrigan)
this team can investigate the supernatural as they did before.

The point is, if like in the 80s and the 90s books can have reliable, stable casts where the characters stories can grow and be developed, fans are likely to be interested in them again.

Quoted in agreement.

It’s like the X-men are constantly in flux.

Marvel should have 1 to 2 core X-men books then rotating casts on other ones.

[Bl00dwerK]

There are too many mutants, and people's favorites are too scattered, to center on just a few. We need a new "main" Marvel universe.

[frostedemma]

There are too many mutants, and people's favorites are too scattered, to center on just a few. We need a new "main" Marvel universe.

yeah cause n52 and rebirth totally worked well for dc. total fan favourite.

[Bl00dwerK]

yeah cause n52 and rebirth totally worked well for dc. total fan favourite.

New52 sold quite well in the beginning, just like Marvel's Ultimate Universe. Ultimatum killed the 1610. We need characters people know, not a bunch of teenage bench-warmers in the X-books.

[Snoop Dogg]

New52 sold quite well in the beginning, just like Marvel's Ultimate Universe. Ultimatum killed the 1610. We need characters people know, not a bunch of teenage bench-warmers in the X-books.

Ultimatum helped the 1610, the initial wave of books after it were solid and they became great during the Ultimate Comics relaunch. What killed the line is the same senior editor who drone bombed the X-Line immediately after the Ultimate books ended. The X-Men do not need any characters not named Wolverine.

[Killerbee911]

I feel you but...there is definitely a core X-Men team. Just like with the F4. Just because they've had other members before doesn't change the fact that Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben are the core members.
l

There is no core team. Every important X-man has died or left and the franchise move on without them. Wolverine is arguably the most popular X-man and with Laura they replace him quite well. In a world where it is not about businesses Wolverine could have stayed dead. Honestly Xavier,Cyclops,Jean Grey,Colossus,Banshee and Nightcrawler all could have stayed dead as well.The beauty of the X-men is it isn't a set define group of people makes it good but when a group of characters on the banner of franchise is working well. I can just start naming teams and people will react probably positively

1. Wolverine's X-force during Dark Angel Saga.. Fantomex,Deadpool
2. The Extinction team...Namor,Danger,Magik
3. Rogue's X-men squad Supernova.. Lady Mastermind,Omega Sentinel,Mystique,Cannonball,Sabertooth
4. X-treme X-men-Sage, Lifeguard,Thunderbird

None of those books had "the core X-men" as people imagine the "core group". I don't think it is stretch to say for anyone of those teams a lot fans would mind a long run with main creative team at their peak and those roster . X-men works because when it is successful it elevates the characters to "a core character" with the fanbase. You can't tell people Banshee, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler,Rogue, Kitty ain't "core", You can't tell people that Psylocke, Bishop, Gambit, Jubilee, Cable ain't "core", You can't tell people that Magik, Emma, Multiple Man, X-23 aren't "core". You using your example Fantastic Four doesn't work without Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben but X-men will work without Xavier,Cyclops, Jean, Iceman, Beast, Angel, Storm, Wolverine,Kitty, Nightcrawler and Colossus around.

[DragonflyJones]

There is no core team. Every important X-man has died or left and the franchise move on without them. Wolverine is arguably the most popular X-man and with Laura they replace him quite well. In a world where it is not about businesses Wolverine could have stayed dead. Honestly Xavier,Cyclops,Jean Grey,Colossus,Banshee and Nightcrawler all could have stayed dead as well.The beauty of the X-men is it isn't a set define group of people makes it good but when a group of characters on the banner of franchise is working well. I can just start naming teams and people will react probably positively

1. Wolverine's X-force during Dark Angel Saga.. Fantomex,Deadpool
2. The Extinction team...Namor,Danger,Magik
3. Rogue's X-men squad Supernova.. Lady Mastermind,Omega Sentinel,Mystique,Cannonball,Sabertooth
4. X-treme X-men-Sage, Lifeguard,Thunderbird

None of those books had "the core X-men" as people imagine the "core group". I don't think it is stretch to say for anyone of those teams a lot fans would mind a long run with main creative team at their peak and those roster . X-men works because when it is successful it elevates the characters to "a core character" with the fanbase. You can't tell people Banshee, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler,Rogue, Kitty ain't "core", You can't tell people that Psylocke, Bishop, Gambit, Jubilee, Cable ain't "core", You can't tell people that Magik, Emma, Multiple Man, X-23 aren't "core". You using your example Fantastic Four doesn't work without Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben but X-men will work without Xavier,Cyclops, Jean, Iceman, Beast, Angel, Storm, Wolverine,Kitty, Nightcrawler and Colossus around.

Oh you don't have to take my word for it brother. I'm not trying to convince you.

I'm just trying to help you all understand when people say "core members" they're talking about a particular group of characters.