How to elevate a Nobody to the A list...

[iron chimp]

Employ better writers

[kjn]

A great interview with G Willow Wilson, including parts of what made Ms Marvel a success:

It really was lightning in a bottle. Part of it is the roll of the dice, fate. It really does have to do with the ways the audience has changed and how the desire for YA literature has changed. If we had taken the same creative team and made the exact same book ten years ago, it could have folded after three issues. And I would never have even pitched it in a million years, but they called me out of the blue and said we want to create a new Muslim superheroine from scratch and give her a book. I almost told them no. This was in the days of the Danish cartoon fiasco. So I was like, are you serious? And then it took a solid of year of twice weekly phone calls to flesh the story out.

This is where specificity became very important. The location of the series is not an accident. Manhattan is the epicenter of the Marvel Universe, and Jersey City is right across the river. It’s a place where if you were growing up in that world, you could look up and see Thor swinging his hammer or Iron Man flying over your head, but they were never coming to where you were.

[DrNewGod]

A great interview with G Willow Wilson, including parts of what made Ms Marvel a success:

That's a cool quote.

[skyvolt2000]

Employ better writers

It won't matter if folks take issue with who you use or who the writer is.

Al Ewing is a good writer. It should not take him doing Hulk to get folks to finally notice him. Yet folks took issue with who he used in Ultamates & Mighty Avengers.

Where would Riri Williams be if Eve Ewing wrote her FIRST before Bendis? Would she have gotten the praise for Riri or would she have been attacked worst than some of the other female writers at Marvel?

Tom King-would you trust him with Duke Thomas? Look at how badly Duke fared under him in Batman.

We get so caught up on who is allowed to write what that we fail to allow them to do their job and judge them as the work comes out.

If Eve Ewing is unwelcomed from the start-we can and do miss out on good writing that in a lot of cases ends up being a one time thing at Dc or Marvel.

Dc dumped G Willow Wilson and cut her Vixen run short. You think that want a do over now?
Marvel sent Robert Kirman away after axing Jubliee run. Walking Dead versus Marvel or Invincible versus Deadpool? Too bad that can't happen.

[Osiris-Rex]

Name some writers and artists that could turn Arms-Fall-Off-Boy into an A-lister.

[DrNewGod]

Name some writers and artists that could turn Arms-Fall-Off-Boy into an A-lister.

In rebuttal, I offer Squirrel Girl.

[iron chimp]

It won't matter if folks take issue with who you use or who the writer is.

Al Ewing is a good writer. It should not take him doing Hulk to get folks to finally notice him. Yet folks took issue with who he used in Ultamates & Mighty Avengers.

Where would Riri Williams be if Eve Ewing wrote her FIRST before Bendis? Would she have gotten the praise for Riri or would she have been attacked worst than some of the other female writers at Marvel?

Tom King-would you trust him with Duke Thomas? Look at how badly Duke fared under him in Batman.

We get so caught up on who is allowed to write what that we fail to allow them to do their job and judge them as the work comes out.

If Eve Ewing is unwelcomed from the start-we can and do miss out on good writing that in a lot of cases ends up being a one time thing at Dc or Marvel.

Dc dumped G Willow Wilson and cut her Vixen run short. You think that want a do over now?
Marvel sent Robert Kirman away after axing Jubliee run. Walking Dead versus Marvel or Invincible versus Deadpool? Too bad that can't happen.

You are right but if the story is good enough those people become a marginal voice as people who read other publishers, ogns, manga etc jump on. Most people just want a good story regardless of anything else - if they didn't we would never have any new films, novels, comics, etc.

Dc used to appeal to a far wider spectrum of people than it does now. Time to get those lost readers back in the fold and that will need different writers. In Dcs defense though one used to be able to buy a far wider range of single issues in the 80s and 90s than one can today but comics crash, other publishers moving to ogns, web comics, etc etc has left the whole single issues market as an empty shell of what it used to be.

But writers can create new cartoons series, new films, new tv series, new novels, new songs etc no problem.

[iron chimp]

Name some writers and artists that could turn Arms-Fall-Off-Boy into an A-lister.

Daniel clowes had a really funny scene with arm fall off boy in eightball. Obviously he's never going to write for DC but he made the character work in a story no problem

[Jim Kelly]

Keith Giffen probably could have made Arm-Fall-Off-Boy popular, but he had nothing to do with the character. There's a secret origin behind his secret origin.

Originally the Legion Clubhouse (the upside down rocketship) was going to have a different goofy (out of continuity) origin story. This was from Mark Waid and Kurt Schaffenberger--but Mike Carlin vetoed that story because it contradicted the new Superman continuity.

Even after Mark Waid made some changes to bring it in line, that was not enough for the Superman editor, so a new origin story was ordered for SECRET ORIGINS 46 (December 1989) from (the now disgraced) Gerard Jones, Curt Swan and Ty Templeton.

That whole story, much like the Waid/Schaffenberger story, was just supposed to be a goof--sending up the kooky kind of adventures the Legion used to have--this one featuring new one-off characters like Fortress Lad and Arm-Fall-Off-Boy.

Arm-Fall-Off-Boy remained non-canonical until he was given a retcon after Zero Hour, by Mark Waid in LEGIONNAIRES, where he became one of the Heroes of Lallor and was named Splitter.

If we're going to rescue Legion sight gags from obscurity, I'd rather see someone attempt a Hate Face story.

[j9ac9k]

Daniel clowes had a really funny scene with arm fall off boy in eightball. Obviously he's never going to write for DC but he made the character work in a story no problem

Wasn't that really "arm pulled-off boy?" Seriously, that scene still gives me shivers...

Actually I can see Mike Allred having a go at AFOB. First he'd have to star in the next DC Lego movie. (AFOB and Lego are such a natural fit!)

[Sutekh]

If we're going to rescue Legion sight gags from obscurity, I'd rather see someone attempt a Hate Face story.

For stories about Hate-Face or Leeta 87 or Silver Sword or Xera of Manna-5, we are probably going to have to stick to fanfic, considering how hard it is to get stories about the actual Legionnaires, these days, let alone heroes mentioned once in their stories.

It's funny how characters come and go, and how DC sometimes seems to be shocked and even distressed by a character becoming popular, and working to sabotage them before they become financially valuable or something... Swamp Thing, Dream, of the Endless, Nightwing, John Constantine, Kon-El, even Booster Gold seemed to get 'more popular than they were comfortable with' and had to get sidelined or cut down.

And then there are those that seem kind of thrown onto the page and then as quickly forgotten, like Element Woman or Skitter.

[mathew101281]

It takes more then one creative team to turn a character into an A lister. Individual runs are to short in modern times. Editors are more important because they can establish a particular tone for a character then keep it consistent over multiple books and creative teams.

[Jim Kelly]

It's funny how characters come and go, and how DC sometimes seems to be shocked and even distressed by a character becoming popular, and working to sabotage them before they become financially valuable or something... Swamp Thing, Dream, of the Endless, Nightwing, John Constantine, Kon-El, even Booster Gold seemed to get 'more popular than they were comfortable with' and had to get sidelined or cut down.

It is strange how DC has sabotaged so many of their creations. I want to believe it's just incompetence and not something more malevolent. But maybe people at DC have their own hidden reasons for promoting certain properties above others.

[Aahz]

It takes more then one creative team to turn a character into an A lister. Individual runs are to short in modern times. Editors are more important because they can establish a particular tone for a character then keep it consistent over multiple books and creative teams.

Just look at the "New Age Of Heros" books despite quite big name creative teams, they all sold quite badly.

[Killerbee911]

Just look at the "New Age Of Heros" books despite quite big name creative teams, they all sold quite badly.

That is what you interpret from the "New Age of Heroes"


What they did right

-Put big names to start on books

-Solid advertising campaign


What they did wrong

- Put completely new characters not introduced anywhere before in books. You are better off introducing new characters as guest spot in a book or in event to build up a base. If you are really trying for success you want the biggest start possible and people didn't know characters or if the books were out.

- Put bunch of new books out at the same time. Yeah they have different audiences but putting out a book as the only new book leaves it as the only thing to focus on more spotlight and if your pull list is big easier to grab extra book.(Yeah they did kinda stagger the start)

- Removed big name artist after one arc in most case those artist never to return back to the book. For example Sideways Rockafort was gone issue 5, Damage Daniels was gone issue 4, The Terrifics Reis was gone by issue 3 ,Curse of Brimstone Tan was gone issue 4.Silencer Romita Jr was gone by issue 4.

Saying these books did bad despite big names feels false to me,New age of heroes was more of a random shot a dart board hoping that a little creative advertising mixed with new spin on old favorite concepts gets some attention and maybe one or two stick . You want see how actually support new concept look at how Marvel kept Sarah Pachelli and Bendis on Miles Morales spiderman book. Those new books where never really priorities they didn't get the widest base possible and they didn't keep great creative team on to try solidify the fan base. No new book will succeed like that not even solid propeties will succeed like that either