Rate superman as mentor

[Ascended]

It's safe to say that building up walls and keeping people at arms length is his natural defense to extreme circumstances, but he's slowly learned to manage that with only a few slides back into habit due to circumstance.

He's still got a ways to go when it comes to playing against his instincts, but it's clear that post-Reborn Superman has done quite a bit of growing character-wise.

Its true, Rebirth Clark has made progress as far as these things are concerned. I've tried to make sure I've said as much in this discussion; credit where its due and all that.

And didn't he lie about his powers in L&C? Or at least lie about how much they were acting up? Haven't read those issues in ages but I could swear he did.....either way, it was just one minor example.

The League Hall thing is interesting, and I can sorta see how he's at that point now and trying hard to be as open and honest as people have always thought he was, but it's still been a weird transition these last couple years to seeing a Superman who's like that.

[stargazer01]

Funny, comic book writers and fans in general say Superman is the most inspirational DC character. At least he's a great husband and son and team mate/leader. Oh and dog lover.

I guess as long as he's overall a great role model for most people, nobody is perfect all the time. Writing inconsistencies.

[Superlad93]

And didn't he lie about his powers in L&C? Or at least lie about how much they were acting up? Haven't read those issues in ages but I could swear he did

Nah, not at all from what I remember. Lois commented on how his powers were still acting up, and Clark said "I can still get the job done." And that was about it, I believe.

The League Hall thing is interesting, and I can sorta see how he's at that point now and trying hard to be as open and honest as people have always thought he was, but it's still been a weird transition these last couple years to seeing a Superman who's like that.

That's actually part of why I'm finding this version of the character to be increasingly more interesting and compelling as his story goes on. He's a guy that's had to work really, really hard to carve out a little slice of happiness and honesty in spite of himself as his less flattering tendencies. He did it! But, ya know, he did it, and "it" comes with a whole layer of anxiety and worry all its own. Jon and Lois have replaced Ma and Pa as his oasis to just be himself (part of the reason why I see no narrative reason to bring them back). But he still backslides into his base instincts, and as per heroes in crisis he's been having issues understanding where Superman ends and Clark begins. And in Bendis' run we see that he's a creature of habit, and personal change (be it in his family or what he thinks is the best way to do his job) is like pulling teeth.

He's an interesting guy all around.

[Ascended]

Nah, not at all from what I remember. Lois commented on how his powers were still acting up, and Clark said "I can still get the job done." And that was about it, I believe.

Okay, I'll trust your memory over mine. It's been, what, three years since that came out? I could definitely be wrong on that detail.

That's actually part of why I'm finding this version of the character to be increasingly more interesting and compelling as his story goes on. He's a guy that's had to work really, really hard to carve out a little slice of happiness and honesty in spite of himself as his less flattering tendencies. He did it! But, ya know, he did it, and "it" comes with a whole layer of anxiety and worry all its own. Jon and Lois have replaced Ma and Pa as his oasis to just be himself (part of the reason why I see no narrative reason to bring them back). But he still backslides into his base instincts, and as per heroes in crisis he's been having issues understanding where Superman ends and Clark begins. And in Bendis' run we see that he's a creature of habit, and personal change (be it in his family or what he thinks is the best way to do his job) is like pulling teeth.

I'm still bothered that we never got to see that adjustment. I could accept this more Rockwellian Super-family man as being "true" to the history if we could have seen the journey over Jon's first ten years.

It's not that I have an issue with Clark carving out his own little happiness and overcaming some of his less desirable traits (at least a lot of the time). We've seen it often enough in various futures so it's not like there's zero precedent for it. But this shift doesn't feel earned, you know? It just feels like another weird detraction that got dumped into our laps out of nowhere, much like some parts of Bynre's reboot did.

He's an interesting guy all around.

I've always thought so. And the more time passes the more interesting I find him.

[Superlad93]

It's not that I have an issue with Clark carving out his own little happiness and overcaming some of his less desirable traits (at least a lot of the time). We've seen it often enough in various futures so it's not like there's zero precedent for it. But this shift doesn't feel earned, you know?

Probably where we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't really need to have walked the full mile for me to feel like it's all believable or earned. I use the same skills I learned enjoying movies, TV shows, books, and games with characters that are coming with a lot of baggage I haven't seen. I mean, I haven't played a God Of War game past #1, but my stride wasn't broken at all when I played the newest one, and that one in particular was stingy as hell with the past info. I even have a friend who went armed only with the knowledge that God Of War has been a thing for longer than one game, and she absolutely LOVED the new game and connected with Kratos and the hard life he's had even if she saw literally none of it. And it's been recommended to both of us not to play those other games because they're apparently mediocre at best, and we're both more than fine with that. Didn't even look up a wiki believe it or not.

I could see where you and others were coming from at the start of this whole thing. I didn't know enough about him, and the Superman book that I was reading wasn't really getting into any of the particulars about him because it had other priorities (and that's ok). But it's been about 3 and a half years, other writers like King, Snyder, Manapul, Johns, Orlando, Yang, and Bendis have gotten hold of him, and enough things have been implied or outright said that I feel like I've got an increasingly clear picture of his journey to this point emotionally.

I won't say no to flashbacks to get really particular about details, or comics that are basically just essays on him as a person, but as we go forward what I need to know unfolds. And I dare say that him trying to keep his little oasis and rise above his implied bad habits is more compelling to me than how we got to the position where he'd have to in the first place. But it's not like I can't see where you and others who agree are coming from, but I just don't have it as any sort of a hang-up because I'm so engrossed in the present to future stories, and they tell me what I believe to be more than enough.

[HeroVladimir93]

Is there a difference between a mentor and a parent?

[Ascended]

Probably where we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't really need to have walked the full mile for me to feel like it's all believable or earned.

No worries. We dont have to agree on everything. Hell, we seem to agree on far more than we disagree on anyway so I suppose something had to come along for you and I to see differently.

And it is getting....I dunno, "better" I guess? As you said, it's been a few years now and a lot of writers have tackled this development to various degrees and how it's changed Clark. And we've seen bits here and there that tell us Clark did struggle with his new role.

I think the thing that probably annoys me the most is that, for DC and its creators, I dont think they even realized how afield Superdad was. I think most of the people in the company never even realized Clark's relationships with his family had these contradictions and issues in the first place. And literary analysis isn't a hard science or anything and different, equally valid interpretations can be pulled from the same material (Im not saying anyone who disagrees with me is wrong or anything).....but it'd be nice to know that DC is aware that this was a departure from the norm. If they spun Clark in this direction knowing it was a shift, okay, but I usually feel like DC doesn't get Clark well enough to know that and this annoys me greatly. They've done right by him (more or less) for the last few years but that hasn't done much to make me less gun-shy after the mess that was the 00's.

Is there a difference between a mentor and a parent?

Mentors dont usually change diapers, for one thing.

[stargazer01]

Is there a difference between a mentor and a parent?

A mentor is a guide and it can be anyone, including a parent, imo.