Rate superman as mentor

[Agent Z]

It's hard to rate Superman as a mentor when he's never been written as one. It would be like trying to rate Luthor as a pastry chef. You can't be judged at doing something you've never really been shown having any interest in.

[Agent Z]

None of these reflect on Clark as a mentor because he isn't mentoring any of these people.

He never trusted Jimmy Olsen with his Secret.

That makes him a lousy friend not a lousy mentor.

He epicly failed Lar Gand in pre-Crisis times.

By… saving his life the only way he could?

He dumped Kara Zor-El off at the Danvers instead of raising her himself.

Because he had neither the means nor the maturity to raise a teenager.

He has had almost zero interaction with Karen Starr since post-Crisis.

For most of post crisis, Karen didn’t even know if she was really a Kryptonian or not. And even then, she was far too old, independent and experienced to need a mentor.

He lost Matrix.

If this makes him a bad mentor, he’s above Batman who has lost three Robins.

He couldn't rehabilitate Superboy Prime.

He wasn’t mentor to Superboy Prime and Christ Himself couldn’t rehabilitate that twisted SOB. He was the very definition of a lost cause.

He forgot about Lor-Zod.

Yeah because DC removed that character from Superman’s history.

He taught Conner nothing.

Conner was not his sidekick and had no interest in being trained by Clark.

He doesn't exactly welcome Cir-El.

Because he didn’t initially believe she was his daughter and as it turned out he was right.

And worst of all, he gave the biological son Jon that he actually raised for 10 years to his crazy suddenly- alive- for- no- good- reason biological dad Jor-El and lost out of years of raising him.

This was stupid but it falls under “bad parent” than “bad mentor”.

Not sure at all about Keenan Kong or Val-Zod.

Keenan a) lives in a different country b) isn’t even a Kryptonian and C) Has no interest in being mentored by Clark like Conner above.

Val isn’t even in the same universe as Clark.

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark learned most of what he knows on the job, imo it makes sense that he thinks it's better to figure things out on your own than having someone whisper in your ear. At the hip mentoring is more a Batman thing imo.

Yeah I don't agree with this at all. I think it is the opposite.for me, the more reason Clark would help a kid out, if a kid comes to his doorstep asking for help regarding there powers or anything else . Clark wouldn't want anyone to go through, what he went through alone(even though Clark had parents) . Sure,he might not think much of concept of side kick.being an only child and never being around baby/kid siblings , Clark would not talk to kids with a level of condescension,some adults have. But he would absolutely be there for a kid. That should be ingrained in the character as a Foster child and an orphan.he would absolutely follow Jonathan and Martha's example. Sure he might be awkward or unsure at first, but he will always try. Anything that violates this key is just bad writing for me.

Had to give Clark a "D" because he does have a few wins scattered among the many failings so it's not a full fledged "F." But it's pretty close.

Beyond that, Clark seems to struggle with blood relations, be it clones or cousins or whatever. If you've got Kryptonian blood, especially if it's the blood of El, then Clark's gonna be super awkward about things and try real hard to forget you're there.

The only real exception has been Jon. Tomasi gave the Kents a purely Rockwellian life that flies in the face of Clark's historic approach to family. Granted, Clark did have a full ten years to adjust that we never saw, but his treatment of Kenan, Lana-Superwoman, etc., show that he hasn't changed his ways, he's just managed to make Jon an exception to the rule.

Hell, Clark seems closer to, and spends more time with Nightwing than he does Power Girl, Kenan, John Henry, or Conner, and barely spends more time with Kara. Clark at least guest spots in Dick's book about every year or two and when he does they have an actual conversation. Half the time when Clark sees his own "family" it's either a team up situation (like the JSA/JLA team ups) or he's shown up to give the kids a hard time and explain what they're doing/did wrong.

Honestly I wish Tomasi had included this in his run. Clark as a happy family man......that's not him. Many, many stories have told us its not him. Tomasi either went against the grain or didn't realize there was a grain there in the first place, but as much as I love Jon and the Tomasi run (at least the first chunk) it never felt authentic to me.

I don't think there is a grain at all. Remember the Alan moore's superman stories "the man who has everything", "what ever happened to the man of tomorrow" or at the end of crisis. Clark is a family man. He always wanted one. He might deny it on the surface thinking it might not be possible , but at the end of the day deep inside Clark would always crave for it. And unconsciously strive for it. Clark might choose his responsibilites as superman as his first priority, but to deny that Clark craves to have a family is unfounded. But that choice would have a deep impact on Clark. It wouldn't be "oh! I like superheroing more than my family. Cause I am not family man, I am tough outsider". The thing about stories of outsiders is that, in most cases they develope to be part of the insiders with a different view/perspective.

And those instances you and others here mentioned( like Clark forgetting Chris Kent) are caused by either bad writing or editorial/writer/direction change driven amnesia or other nonsense behind stage . Not part of the active intentional characterisation DC has tried to push through out the years. Kenan didn't have much sales, even though the books were great and Supes did have cool relationship with him when he showed up in his book. And Kara is a hero in her own right. She is grown independent woman.And does not need Clark. So is Lana. But Clark did show up to talk to her.

He might not have had a hands on approach in mentoring like Bruce but Clark Would always be there for people to talk to.I attribute it to him being the only child and his laid back personality. But he wouldn't be some deadbeat idiot or a jerk like in the young justice TV series. They don't have him be the father figure for the entire DC superhero community for nothing.

Anyway I gave him a C. But he could clearly be An "A" material. Just all the bad writing, continuity reboots and other nonsense Have dragged the character down.

[Jon Clark]

Can we find a successful mentee of Superman's?

Depending on the continuity Superman has taken a rather hands-off approach to Kara.
- Earth-One he not only left her in an orphanage, but kept coming up with tests for her to fail.
- Earth-Two we never got much on her life on Earth, but we do know she had no secret ID when she debuted. It seems until they introduced Commissioner Bruce Wayne that no one on Earth had known about her before her heroic career. Dick Grayson certainly didin't or any of the active JSA. Infinity Inc didn't mention her hanging with Lyta, who'd have been the most obvious choice of a peer for Kara while she acclimated to her new home.
- Post Crisis she wound up on Paradise Island, with the Titans, and eventually posing as Lana's niece. But again no real connection to Clark.
- in the cartoon she was shunted off to the Kents and eventually decided to relocate to the 30th Century.

Pre-Crisis there were a few kids besides Kara that Superman has for single-issue sidekicks. They all vanished into limbo never to be seen again with the implication being that Clark never checked in again on them .

Post Crisis we had Kon-El who Superman rarely interacted with prior to the kid discovering on his own the double identity. Even then Kon was left to his own devices until Geoff suddenly had the kid moved to the Kent farm. Superman's greatest interaction with Kon was probably right around Kon's death. And his cartoon counterpart had pretty much the same level of non-relationship in the Young Justice cartoon.

The Kara and Kon of the new 52 had even worse realtionships with their Superman.

On TV the Supergirl series has a Superman who instead of the Kents dumps Kara on scientists named Danvers and then only communicates by texts or by sending Jimmy Olsen (sorry James Olsen) to mentor her.

Pre-Crisis and on the TV show Superman seemed to do better with Kara once she established herself as an adult hero and he was on more equal footing and less a mentor.
.

[Agent Z]

Yeah I don't agree with this at all. I think it is the opposite.for me, the more reason Clark would help a kid out, if a kid comes to his doorstep asking for help regarding there powers or anything else . Clark wouldn't want anyone to go through, what he went through alone(even though Clark had parents) . Sure,he might not think much of concept of side kick.being an only child and never being around baby/kid siblings , Clark would not talk to kids with a level of condescension,some adults have. But he would absolutely be there for a kid. That should be ingrained in the character as a Foster child and an orphan.he would absolutely follow Jonathan and Martha's example. Sure he might be awkward or unsure at first, but he will always try. Anything that violates this key is just bad writing for me.




I don't think there is a grain at all. Remember the Alan moore's superman stories "the man who has everything", "what ever happened to the man of tomorrow" or at the end of crisis. Clark is a family man. He always wanted one. He might deny it on the surface thinking it might not be possible , but at the end of the day deep inside Clark would always crave for it. And unconsciously strive for it. Clark might choose his responsibilites as superman as his first priority, but to deny that Clark craves to have a family is unfounded. But that choice would have a deep impact on Clark. It wouldn't be "oh! I like superheroing more than my family. Cause I am not family man, I am tough outsider". The thing about stories of outsiders is that, in most cases they develope to be part of the insiders with a different view/perspective.

And those instances you and others here mentioned( like Clark forgetting Chris Kent) are caused by either bad writing or editorial/writer/direction change driven amnesia or other nonsense behind stage . Not part of the active intentional characterisation DC has tried to push through out the years. Kenan didn't have much sales, even though the books were great and Supes did have cool relationship with him when he showed up in his book. And Kara is a hero in her own right. She is grown independent woman.And does not need Clark. So is Lana. But Clark did show up to talk to her.

He might not have had a hands on approach in mentoring like Bruce but Clark Would always be there for people to talk to.I attribute it to him being the only child and his laid back personality. But he wouldn't be some deadbeat idiot or a jerk like in the young justice TV series. They don't have him be the father figure for the entire DC superhero community for nothing.

Anyway I gave him a C. But he could clearly be An "A" material. Just all the bad writing, continuity reboots and other nonsense Have dragged the character down.

When has any kid actually come to Clark for mentorship in the comics?

And no he wasn't a deadbeat in Young Justice since Conner wasn't his son.

[manwhohaseverything]

When has any kid actually come to Clark for mentorship in the comics?

And no he wasn't a deadbeat in Young Justice since Conner wasn't his son.

Conner did in young justice.Well Jon does, and people do ask Clark for advices and help. I was not calling young justice superman dead beat. I should have specified it. I meant that in a general way. But I did call him a jerk.

[Naruto1996]

Interesting concept.

I think it's worth questioning if he's even their mentors in the first place. Batman recruits Robins... trains them... lets them move in... Superman really doesn't DO any of that. These other heroes are just 'there'. Does he really have any obligation at all to Power Girl? The cousin of your doppleganger from a different universe?? Steel was a grown man who was inspired by Superman, but wears armor... what does he have in common with Superman? Clark can't pass on his tactics and train his powers for Steel? He's just kind of 'there'... Kind of the same with Connor. Young Justice made Clark seem like a Jerk, but how DO you connect with your illegally grown clone? His very existence is a reminder and a violation of your DNA...

No real excuse for Kara. As a blood relative who can teach him first hand stories about his parents and Krypton... Who has the same powers without the experience... Clark SHOULD be a better mentor to her. However the others? They're kind of add ons thrown at him. They aren't really HIS to mentor...

conner is the clone of clark really like it or not he has his DNA minimal that's why you should have a closer relationship or at least try to guide you through the best path

another example is Chris Kent, his adopted son who was forgotten by clark

[Kuwagaton]

Forgotten is pretty arguable. His story line was so weird after Last Son.

Beyond that, Clark seems to struggle with blood relations, be it clones or cousins or whatever. If you've got Kryptonian blood, especially if it's the blood of El, then Clark's gonna be super awkward about things and try real hard to forget you're there.

No real excuse for Kara. As a blood relative who can teach him first hand stories about his parents and Krypton... Who has the same powers without the experience... Clark SHOULD be a better mentor to her.

Can we find a successful mentee of Superman's?

Depending on the continuity Superman has taken a rather hands-off approach to Kara.
- Earth-One he not only left her in an orphanage, but kept coming up with tests for her to fail.

People bring up the orphanage as if having a more regular relationship between Clark Kent and some random teenaged girl would have not been weird. These particular points would have to ignore Action #285, Superman #156, and CoIE, which among many other stories are pretty essential to the mythos. Sacrificing her life to save him, the student becoming the teacher, is pretty much the biggest cap you could put on the thing as far as taking her from the crash landing into her own legend. Out of continuity sure, but continuity is a complete mess anyway. We don't know if Maelstrom or the Johns Brainiac arc for examples are as out as presumably the Doomed/Red Lantern stories. But we do have the very recent Supergirl #22 to show us where they stand.

Pre-Crisis there were a few kids besides Kara that Superman has for single-issue sidekicks. They all vanished into limbo never to be seen again with the implication being that Clark never checked in again on them .

At least Billy and Mickey were more helpful by not helping.

Superman's greatest interaction with Kon was probably right around Kon's death.

Or giving him the name.

[manofsteel1979]

I'd give him a C only because as others pointed out,some of the examples given aren't actual character flaws. Things like what happened to Karen Starr and Chris/Lor-Zod are because of continuity and editorial f*ck ups. They only become character flaws only so far as retroactively explaining said screw ups in story.

If you took everything literally though... probably closer to D. Maybe C-.I don't think he warrants an F simply due to the general example he sets as a Superhero, which is a form of indirect mentoring.

Truth be known, Supergirl aside, Superman had never been depicted as a direct mentor. The closest is Jon, and that's more of a parenting thing.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

He's the perfect hero, so he's be a good mentor.

[Jon Clark]

People bring up the orphanage as if having a more regular relationship between Clark Kent and some random teenaged girl would have not been weird. These particular points would have to ignore Action #285, Superman #156, and CoIE, which among many other stories are pretty essential to the mythos. Sacrificing her life to save him, the student becoming the teacher, is pretty much the biggest cap you could put on the thing as far as taking her from the crash landing into her own legend. Out of continuity sure, but continuity is a complete mess anyway. We don't know if Maelstrom or the Johns Brainiac arc for examples are as out as presumably the Doomed/Red Lantern stories. But we do have the very recent Supergirl #22 to show us where they stand.

Ok, what about giving Lois a chance to prove she could keep a secret? Let Kara live with her rather than in an orphanage. It'd keep Kara nearby even if her connection to "Clark" wasn't revealed and give Lois a taste of what keeping a secret ID entails. Or actually take a more active role in having Kara join the Legion until she was ready to step out of the "secret emergency role". Have her meet Robin (if not the other Titans) in the present so she had some people closer to her own age she could be herself around.

And why make her a random teen-age girl. This is a guy who created several other identities for himself from whole cloth. He could easily have created a backstory where she was an orphan with a connection to Clark. Hell, I think by the Bronze Age they had them as "cousins" in both identities. She could have been some orphan whose family had discovered the foundling Jon and Martha adopted was their long lost relative. Or the child of someone who Clark had met on a story who on the deathbed asked Clark to care for her. Both are even sort of true.


And a man who had been a public hero since age eight really refused to let his 15 year old cousin operate openly for years? Talk about a double standard.

[Ascended]

Remember the Alan moore's superman stories "the man who has everything", "what ever happened to the man of tomorrow" or at the end of crisis. Clark is a family man. He always wanted one.

Just because Clark might want a family doesn't mean he's actually very good with the family he actually has, which has been shown time and time again in his own books. Clark can fantasize about how great a family would be, but when someone actually related to him shows up he almost always flubs it. That's not something I cooked up, that's what is on the page.

but to deny that Clark craves to have a family is unfounded.

I didnt say he doesn't *want* one. I said he's bad at it. Or was, until Tomasi and Jon came along.

The thing about stories of outsiders is that, in most cases they develope to be part of the insiders with a different view/perspective.

Which is what we seem to be seeing right now. But even if Clark has grown into the role of "father" that does not change the decades he spent keeping his family at arm's length.

And those instances you and others here mentioned( like Clark forgetting Chris Kent) are caused by either bad writing or editorial/writer/direction change driven amnesia or other nonsense behind stage .

Everything that happens in comics is because of nonsense behind stage. Good and bad, if it makes it to print it happened and if it happens on a regular basis, it's part of the character. And while "bad writing" could excuse a few examples, we're talking about eighty years of fairly consistent characterization. I'm not the one saying Clark doesnt handle family very well; DC is the one saying it and they've been saying it for decades. If anything, the situations and moments where Clark was good at dealing with family are the examples of bad writing because they fly in the face of the majority of his characterization.

And Kara is a hero in her own right. She is grown independent woman.

She's a 16 year old kid, who watched everything and everyone she ever knew die and found herself on a foreign planet where nothing is the same and her baby cousin is suddenly twice her age. After a time, once she's managed to get her feet under her and carve out a life, sure she doesn't need Clark holding her hand. But when she first arrives? She needed her cousin, and what she got was foster families, Amazons, or the Kents.

[Agent Z]

Conner did in young justice.Well Jon does, and people do ask Clark for advices and help. I was not calling young justice superman dead beat. I should have specified it. I meant that in a general way. But I did call him a jerk.

I meant in the comics. Jon asks him for advice but he's Clark's son. Mentoring and parenting are two different things. And he wasn't a jerk in YJ.

[Agent Z]

Conner did in young justice.Well Jon does, and people do ask Clark for advices and help. I was not calling young justice superman dead beat. I should have specified it. I meant that in a general way. But I did call him a jerk.

I meant in the comics. Jon asks him for advice but he's Clark's son. Mentoring and parenting are two different things. And he wasn't a jerk in YJ.

[Agent Z]

conner is the clone of clark really like it or not he has his DNA minimal that's why you should have a closer relationship or at least try to guide you through the best path

another example is Chris Kent, his adopted son who was forgotten by clark

Conner is not Clark's son. He is a clone created from Clark's DNA without his knowledge or consent. If Clark doesn't want anything to do with him, that is his choice.