Barbara Gordon - as Batgirl or as Oracle?

[oasis1313]

I think Tim's legs should be chopped off and he takes the wheelchair and the new Oracle title.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

I think Tim's legs should be chopped off and he takes the wheelchair and the new Oracle title.

I'm sorry, did I miss the extra-special issue of ROBIN composed of nothing but double-page spread after double-page spread of Tim Drake raping you in the ass, complete with a photo-realistic drawing of your real-life face and a page-long doxxing of your real name, address, and all of your contact information? Because that's the only scenario I can see in which you have a legitimate reason to be so butt-hurt over Tim Drake's continued existence.

[Starrius]

Batgirl
I never wanted her to end up in a wheelchair

I liked Dr. Barbara Gordon, head Librarian of Gotham City Library that ended up becoming a congresswoman

[MajorHoy]

I'm sorry, did I miss the extra-special issue of ROBIN composed of nothing but double-page spread after double-page spread of Tim Drake raping you in the ass, complete with a photo-realistic drawing of your real-life face and a page-long doxxing of your real name, address, and all of your contact information? Because that's the only scenario I can see in which you have a legitimate reason to be so butt-hurt over Tim Drake's continued existence.

Do you think maybe the way you phrased your feelings may be a bit questionable?

[Spencermalley935]

Honestly, I'm fine with her as either.

[Shriveling_memo]

After reading annual of batman issue 3, it came apparent that batman needs an Oracle type character. Infact all the street level character need that type of character. She can keep her legs but operating as Oracle will would help batman loads.

Alfred being the main tech guy just doesn't make sense and takes me out of the comic sometimes. Was good when pennyworth daughter was around.

They need to fill that roll of a tech person who isn't always alfred.

[babybats]

I prefer Oracle. She filled an important role both in her capacity as Oracle and as a mentor to so many other characters. Oracle was also a wonderfully positive example of disability in comics and life going on after trauma, though that's all been thrown out now because Babs being Batgirl again was more important I guess.

I'd like her to become Oracle again. Batgirl was honestly a demotion. She's just another kid in a costume. Oracle was the one calling the shots. If there needs to be a Barbara Batgirl book, then they can always do a flashback series. A fun look at the past with her as Batgirl, Dick as Robin, etc. And in the present, Steph or Cass can be Batgirl and Babs is Oracle. And now that she can walk, she can be in the field doing flips while she's hacking or whatever.

[Agent Z]

While I prefer her as Oracle and dont particularly care for her after her New 52, I cant deny that Oracle is a bit of a useless character now. Boy what a change a decade can bring, tech and inter connectivity have improved by leaps and bounds so Oracle's primary gimmick is becoming increasingly redundant. Moreover the Oracle archetype is increasingly stale and cliched now, virtually every superhero has a tech/comm guy in both comics and mainstream adaptations so Oracle's "status" has been lost.

As Batgirl she atleast she pushes her own arcs forward in her own book, as Oracle she'll just be servicing others in their books or team books, where at best she might get occasional arcs or one shots. At the end of the day having your own solo and stories regardless of the content and tone and "importance" beats out everything else.

Cass fans certainly wouldn't like it if she starts running a dojo and every superhero starts visiting her for a crash course on fighting, discipline and spiritual healing in that position she could also show up in different books and be treated as someone integral to the superhero community but I dont think any Cass fan would want that over Batgirl even though Batgirl would be just another generic crime fighter prowling Gotham's streets at night in comparison.

If Oracle is so outdated and stale why does DC keep creating or retooling characters to fill that niche? Cyborg, Hack, Felicity, that new Oracle from Bensons' Batgirl and the Birds of Prey.

It seems to me that it isn't so much that Oracle is outdated but rather DC doesn't want Barbara to be Oracle.

[mib86]

I'm for Oracle.
I think that was a wonderful way to retcon what was basically a fridging case in a powerful origin story of a new kind of super hero,who was no more a batman's sidekick but an equal and i miss that in the new52.

[kjn]

If Oracle was so outdated and stale why does DC keep creating or retooling characters to fill that niche? Cyborg, Hack, Felicity, that new Oracle from Bensons' Batgirl and the Birds of Prey.

Not only that, they are missing the narrative role that Oracle had in the stories. Oracle's real role in the stories wasn't to wrangle computers or find information. It was to act as an information and team manager, that also brought with her real authority and experience. Her usually being physically distant from the action also opened up real storytelling avenues and tricks, and gave a way for writers to really bring up the tension if they wanted to by moving the action towards her.

The closest analogue in fiction would probably be the dirtside personnel in a movie like Apollo 13.

(An idea for a tension-filled take of most any Birds of Prey story: short of the opening, show everything from Oracle's PoV. We get to see her reactions to the sound coming over the speakers and we get glimpses via some security cameras or smartphones pictures. But otherwise, all the action should be in the reader's head.)

[Godlike13]

If Oracle is so outdated and stale why does DC keep creating or retooling characters to fill that niche? Cyborg, Hack, Felicity, that new Oracle from Bensons' Batgirl and the Birds of Prey.

It seems to me that it isn't so much that Oracle is outdated but rather DC doesn't want Barbara to be Oracle.

Except they aren't. Not really. And if anything the lack of success of those characters just further illustrates how that isn't a niche that actually needs filling in the DCU.

[Agent Z]

Except they aren't. Not really.

They actually are. All the characters I mentioned were emphasized with their hacking skills and one of them literally went by the Oracle moniker.

And if anything the lack of success of those characters just further illustrates how that isn't a niche the actually needs filling.

DC doesn't seem to think so and anyway an argument could be made the failure was due to execution (or in the case of the new Oracle, still old wounds from DC removing that moniker from Babs' history).

[The Kid]

I don't really have any strong opinions one way or the other

Batgirl
I never wanted her to end up in a wheelchair

I liked Dr. Barbara Gordon, head Librarian of Gotham City Library that ended up becoming a congresswoman

Although I did like this a lot. Too bad the title Batwoman is taken or she could have taken that

[Godlike13]

They actually are. All the characters I mentioned were emphasized with their hacking skills and one of them literally went by the Oracle moniker.

DC doesn't seem to think so and anyway an argument could be made the failure was due to execution (or in the case of the new Oracle, still old wounds from DC removing that moniker from Babs' history).

None of the character you mentioned actually filled or are filling that niche. Half of them are dead, barely making it a year, and with Cyborg it just isn't something they really explore even though he could do it effortlessly. Which is probably why they don't really explore it, because for him its like farting. Even the one that went by Oracle, he wasn't actually created to fill that niche but more to act as fan commentary.

[Osiris-Rex]

Batgirl. The Killing Joke should have never been canon.