Barbara Gordon - as Batgirl or as Oracle?

[kjn]

Oracle
She was a much more compelling character back then as opposed to "just another member of the Bat family".
Personally, think she should go back to that role and run ops for the rest of the Bat Family which in itself is way way way too large; needs culling.

No, Oracle is too large a character for Gotham. The original Birds of Prey had an excellent setup focused on global spy thrillers and heists mixed with inter-team drama, and going back to that should be a no-brainer. Think Charlie's Angels or Mission: Impossible. DC has nothing else playing within that niche. It also opens up the use of Oracle for every other hero or team out there.

Gotham can still be there, but it's just the place where Oracle is based. Can be used as a setting as needed, but not the permanent backdrop.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'd have to disagree. I always found Batgirl to be completely out of place in the Batman stories until the Huntress and later Cass one turned up in No Man's Land.

IDK, it may be due to growing up on BTAS as my first exposure and the Adam West reruns, but Babs as Batgirl is just one of the permanent fixtures for me. Babs in general is whether as Oracle or Batgirl. A lot of the weight the Oracle identity carries is that it's Batgirl in a new role after she was tragically injured.

Plus, the whole reason Babs was even created was to be Batgirl as a cross promotion between the show and the comics. The first story she debuts in is "the Billion Dollar Debut of Batgirl." Preferring Oracle is valid, but I think saying the role doesn't "fit" her is a bit silly. You have to ignore the whole reason for her existence and a couple decades of stories pre-Oracle (and the other media appearances after) to come to that conclusion.

[kjn]

Plus, the whole reason Babs was even created was to be Batgirl as a cross promotion between the show and the comics. The first story she debuts in is "the Billion Dollar Debut of Batgirl." Preferring Oracle is valid, but I think saying the role doesn't "fit" her is a bit silly. You have to ignore the whole reason for her existence and a couple decades of stories pre-Oracle (and the other media appearances after) to come to that conclusion.

I think one has to look at where the character was when first created, and where they are now. Dick Grayson set the standard for Robin, just as Babs set the standard for Batgirl. But Dick Grayson grew out of the Robin role, just as Babs grew out of the Batgirl role. Putting her back there again has IMO really stunted her character.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think one has to look at where the character was when first created, and where they are now. Dick Grayson set the standard for Robin, just as Babs set the standard for Batgirl. But Dick Grayson grew out of the Robin role, just as Babs grew out of the Batgirl role. Putting her back there again has IMO really stunted her character.

But that's basically what I said. Saying Batgirl doesn't fit Babs post-Oracle development is one thing, much like Robin no longer fitting Dick post-Nightwing.

Saying it NEVER suited her is another thing entirely, and is the equivalent of saying Robin never suited Dick even though they set the standards for both of those identities and were created as characters in tandem with those personas.

[Godlike13]

Ya, hard to say it didn’t fit them when they set the mold.

[Mr. White]

No, Oracle is too large a character for Gotham. The original Birds of Prey had an excellent setup focused on global spy thrillers and heists mixed with inter-team drama, and going back to that should be a no-brainer. Think Charlie's Angels or Mission: Impossible. DC has nothing else playing within that niche. It also opens up the use of Oracle for every other hero or team out there.

Gotham can still be there, but it's just the place where Oracle is based. Can be used as a setting as needed, but not the permanent backdrop.

A man (or woman) after my own heart.
This is what I think should be done with the Bat Family - https://community.cbr.com/showthread...t-Family/page4

[MikaelNovasun]

I wish she would have stayed as Oracle after her surgery. As others have said her being Batgirl again has stunted her growth. But it isn't a problem unique to Barbara. It plagues most superheroes/heroines. It is one reason why I really like the young justice animated series. The characters actually age, are allowed to grow, and even retire and hand their role over to their younger partner(Aquaman becoming a king and father, and letting Kaldur step into the role).

[Ascended]

I wish she would have stayed as Oracle after her surgery. As others have said her being Batgirl again has stunted her growth. But it isn't a problem unique to Barbara. It plagues most superheroes/heroines. It is one reason why I really like the young justice animated series. The characters actually age, are allowed to grow, and even retire and hand their role over to their younger partner(Aquaman becoming a king and father, and letting Kaldur step into the role).

I wish DC would run a title like this. An ongoing Elseworlds where the characters actually age. It could have started in '38 with the real-time arrival of Superman, or it could start now, or anywhere in-between, but it'd be interesting to see the publisher run something so counter to what you usually see.

[byrd156]

I wish DC would run a title like this. An ongoing Elseworlds where the characters actually age. It could have started in '38 with the real-time arrival of Superman, or it could start now, or anywhere in-between, but it'd be interesting to see the publisher run something so counter to what you usually see.

I suggested this over in the controversial thread.

[kurenai24]

Oracle ...wheelchair and all.

I'm sorry, did I miss the extra-special issue of ROBIN composed of nothing but double-page spread after double-page spread of Tim Drake raping you in the ass, complete with a photo-realistic drawing of your real-life face and a page-long doxxing of your real name, address, and all of your contact information? Because that's the only scenario I can see in which you have a legitimate reason to be so butt-hurt over Tim Drake's continued existence.

I enjoyed this response.

[dancj]

Plus, the whole reason Babs was even created was to be Batgirl as a cross promotion between the show and the comics. The first story she debuts in is "the Billion Dollar Debut of Batgirl." Preferring Oracle is valid, but I think saying the role doesn't "fit" her is a bit silly. You have to ignore the whole reason for her existence and a couple decades of stories pre-Oracle (and the other media appearances after) to come to that conclusion.

You don't have to ignore it. You just have to think she wasn't good in the role.

[Shamrock Holmes]

Who's to say it couldn't? Just because she didn't wear tights or swing around rooftops doesn't mean you can't tell quite a few different stories with Batgirl.

The trouble is that many of the more well-regarded recent Batgirl storylines like "Batgirl of Burnside" would have worked easily as well with Steph as Babs.

I would say her relationships with the Batgirls and the Birds of Prey gave her a lot of development, and her relationship with Dick, as she became a mentor for Cass and Steph and part of a strong team of women with the Birds.

But shouldn't the ideal be for more character consistency? It just seems like writers and DC can't make up their minds what they want Batgirl to be, which I'm not sure I care for compared to the more clearer and solid Oracle identity.

I think that's underestimating the Batgirl name.

I think when most people think of major female DC heroes, be they comic fans or the general public, Batgirl will probably come up pretty quickly and has a long storied history under multiple women in the comics and as Barbara Gordon in other media.

Like, Batgirl's been in pretty much every Batman cartoon, is one of the most prominent heroes in DC Super Hero Girls, headlined her own female-oriented animated web-series long before DC Super Hero Girls was even a thing, etc.

So I don't think she's a weak IP.

Agreed. But similar to noted above, you can do at lot more with Babs as Oracle supporting Cass and Steph as the "Batgirls", than you can with Babs as Batgirl alone.

[Konja7]

Agreed. But similar to noted above, you can do at lot more with Babs as Oracle supporting Cass and Steph as the "Batgirls", than you can with Babs as Batgirl alone.

The problem with that is that Oracle can only be a support for other characters.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't like Barbara in her Batgirl role, especially since they want her to be the young and inexperienced in that role. However, I don't want her in a wheelchair as a support of other characters either.

[kjn]

The problem with that is that Oracle can only be a support for other characters.

I'd disagree with that assertion, and there are several ways to handle that problem, if the writer is skilled and creative.

One solution is the Chuck Dixon one, that he used in the early Birds of Prey titles: run the team consisting of only Oracle and one other character (in this case Black Canary). I think it was a narrative mistake to expand the Birds of Prey as they were later on, since it put Oracle more into a support role. It would probably be better to run most of the missions with only a single field agent.

Another is to run storylines which are focused on Oracle or Babs in various ways. These include more domestic or romantic ones, but can also easily be focused on mysteries or team dynamics.

[Osiris-Rex]

The problem with that is that Oracle can only be a support for other characters.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't like Barbara in her Batgirl role, especially since they want her to be the young and inexperienced in that role. However, I don't want her in a wheelchair as a support of other characters either.

Having Barbara as Oracle instead of Batgirl is always going to relegate her to a supporting role, like Gambi for Black Lightning or Winn for Guardian or Felicity for Green Arrow. No matter how good
Barbara is at her job she is never going to be out there doing the fun things the hero does. I don't mind Barbara as young or inexperienced as they retcon characters all the time. But an older,
wiser, more skilled Barbara works too. Either way as long a she is out in the field kicking but herself is more satisfying for me than just sitting at a computer giving advice to people doing the action.