Wonder Woman March 2019 Solicits- Giganta's Back!

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, if one thinks "historically" like I do, then Ares was the patron of the Amazons!

Historically as far as the WW franchise is concerned.

But I liked a lot of Pérez's take on the Amazons and the goddesses. Maybe not in every particular, but it was much more true to the original Greek myths rather than the rather modern and pop-culture understanding of them that Marston had. I also think the more polytheistic take that Pérez used gives a larger scope for stories. Marston more had Aphrodite and Athena turn up as visions now and then and tell the Amazons that yes, Diana should be allowed to go out and do things.

Adhering to complete accuracy as far as the Greek myths are concerned is still not something Perez did. Otherwise Ares would indeed be their patron, the Amazons would be man haters and they would be lopping off one of their breasts. And Hippolyta would have been killed by Hercules. Since Marston was already upending the way that the Amazons were presented, doing the same to Aphrodite isn't much of a stretch. I think the modern/pop culture take on Aphrodite was fitting, because it distilled things down to a "love and wisdom vs. war" and "battle of the sexes, men are from Mars and women are from Venus" sort of thing. Making Aphrodite, one of the most classically feminine goddesses who rules over traditionally feminine attributes, so powerful fits in nicely with the Wonder Woman narrative. The patriarchal Greek myths painted her as a vain, horny and petty beauty queen, whereas the matriarchal narrative paints her as something else.

And while you are not wrong that Aphrodite and Athena just showed up in visions now and then, that's pretty much what all the Gods did in the Perez run. Show up and tell the Amazons to do things. hell, Athena had to tell Diana to enter the Contest when she was originally inclined to do it herself! So we have a gathering of goddesses still just doing what 1-2 were doing already. And one of them, the main one, got lost in the crowd and reduced to just giving the Amazons "the gift of love" (whatever that means) and a lock of her hair to Charon. And her great contribution to arming Wonder Woman is having her husband forge the Lasso, which is given powers by Hestia, instead of Aphrodite instructing the Amazons to forge it themselves from a magical item SHE gave them. A non-polytheistic take doesn't necessarily cut off an avenue for a larger scope in stories. Considering the world she is f

[Dr. Poison]

Thank you, because THIS. I'm going to be hopeful, since the solicit says DOCTOR Doris Zeul. (Doris is no dummy and I hate it when her growth powers supposedly dwindle her intellect. Quite sexist to say that as a woman's stature or power grows, her intelligence diminishes, but I digress...)

I love how the rebirth (ha!) of the pantheon are connecting to adventures with the Amazing Amazon's adversaries. Clash of the Titans in this episode, indeed.

It makes me wonder who else may be a thematic match made in Olympus? Doctor Poison vs Asclepius? Queen Clea and Poseidon? Artemis and Dr. Barbara Minerva? Doctor Cyber and Hephaestus in a dual duel between digital and empyrean forges? Doctor Psycho mesmerizes the ultra man-God Heracles? The wrath of Hera and the wrath of The Mask? Apollo, and one of his symbols, the mouse, unleashing the rodent rage of the minute menace of Mouse Man? A tale of the Angler and the Aegeus with Angle Man and Athena? Zara brings the fire and heat to Hades' cold, desolate Underworld by reigniting the Phlegethon or recommits an Olympian original sin with Prometheus?

So many intriguing paths to take that makes the World of Wonder a much larger place than it has been in the past.

Although I'm not a big fan on having the public domain Olympians in the book, I like your ideas here. Maybe it would finally get some the of the folks who constantly bash and belittle the Wonder-rogues to find some respect for them if some of them were either powered up by the Olympians or had the power of the Olympians trapped inside them(maybe via Circe?):


Cheetah/Artemis or Hermes
Giganta/Demeter
Dr. Poison/Asclepius
Queen Clea/Poseidon
Aegeus/Hephaestus
The Mask/Hera
Zara/Apollo or Hades

[kjn]

Adhering to complete accuracy as far as the Greek myths are concerned is still not something Perez did.

Agreed! But he studied the myths much more closely than any other Wonder Woman writer (except now possibly Wilson), tried to see them without a Christian filter, and tried to integrate their meaning into both the modern world and superhero comics.

"Accuracy" is not really the goal here, since the original myths were inconsistent and mutable. "Mindset" is a far better word.

And yes, most any type of story background can be used to create rich stories. But DC already had a monotheistic myth to draw on, since so much of Jewish traditions and material ended up in Superman. And while doing a Christian approach to Greek myth isn't wrong in and of itself, it will likely end up hollow (just as the theology of the movie did) unless one really knows the source material really well on its own terms.

[SiegePerilous02]

But isn't the fact that the Amazons have Aphrodite AND Athena (even as a secondary patron, she was there a lot even in the Golden Age) kind of already doing away with monotheism and setting up the fact that multiple Gods exist? Just not all of them have the same interests or goals?

Ares being a Satanic-figure/Big Bad/embodiment of evil may be pretty Christian, but he existed in that capacity even with the more polytheistic set-up of Perez. And the immaculate conception of the clay birth is pretty Christian, except flipping it on it's head and making it a purely feminine act of creation. The clay birth is shared in multiple versions, and Aphrodite and Athena working in tandem makes things polytheistic. Not as much as later versions, but the original at least had less moving parts/cooks in the kitchen and was more streamlined. Which the foundation aspects of these franchises really need to be.

[kjn]

But isn't the fact that the Amazons have Aphrodite AND Athena (even as a secondary patron, she was there a lot even in the Golden Age) kind of already doing away with monotheism and setting up the fact that multiple Gods exist? Just not all of them have the same interests or goals?

Ares being a Satanic-figure/Big Bad/embodiment of evil may be pretty Christian, but he existed in that capacity even with the more polytheistic set-up of Perez. And the immaculate conception of the clay birth is pretty Christian, except flipping it on it's head and making it a purely feminine act of creation. The clay birth is shared in multiple versions, and Aphrodite and Athena working in tandem makes things polytheistic. Not as much as later versions, but the original at least had less moving parts/cooks in the kitchen and was more streamlined. Which the foundation aspects of these franchises really need to be.

Yeah, Marston's not as bad as some other takes (like the movie), but he erased the other goddesses, and mainly used Athena and Aphrodite as deus ex machina devices, not as story elements in their own right. That was an innovation that Pérez did that opened up lots of avenues for new stories.

The clay birth can be found in far more myth complexes than the Christian one, or for that matter the Jewish. It calls back to both Pandora and Pygmalion in Greek myth, and can be found all over the Middle East and eastern Mediterranean.

Note also that the polytheistic viewpoint is not limited to just the number of gods. (From an Islamic point of view, mainstream Christianity is polytheistic when viewed as such.) What is important is also the relations between the gods and the relations between gods and worshippers.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

That was not an innovation on Perez's part.
The Amazons under Marston also worshipped other goddesses with Demeter revered not only as a goddess of harvest, but of motherhood. There was a whole storyline about how their harvest festival was a day of reference towards Demeter.
Artemis was also named dropped multiple times. The winter solstice which was centered around her and there was even a story where Wonder Woman traveled to the forests on the moon to meet the moon goddess and her nymph archers.

Marston did quite a bit of homework himself. The catch is that instead of researching Greek mythology, he largely used Roman mythology. Its why so many of the gods in his depiction used roman named like Diana, Mars, and the like.

[WonderScott]

Although I'm not a big fan on having the public domain Olympians in the book, I like your ideas here. Maybe it would finally get some the of the folks who constantly bash and belittle the Wonder-rogues to find some respect for them if some of them were either powered up by the Olympians or had the power of the Olympians trapped inside them(maybe via Circe?):


Cheetah/Artemis or Hermes
Giganta/Demeter
Dr. Poison/Asclepius
Queen Clea/Poseidon
Aegeus/Hephaestus
The Mask/Hera
Zara/Apollo or Hades

Thanks Dr. Poison. I like to think of it as the Wonder rogues and gods and goddesses crossing paths with Wonder Woman and not necessarily getting powered up by them. I'd probably enjoy that in a couple of instances, but I want the Wonder foes to stand on their own against Diana and the gods too.

At least we're getting her costumed foes showing up too, because, like you, I'm tired of it being divine time all the time.

I like your pairing of Zara and Apollo. That would be interesting.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Kinda leaves me to wonder though, just who was caught up in this?
We know that the gods wound up on earth along with mythological types like the pegasus, minotaur, and the the titans. But most of the Titans are supposed to be bound in the underworld. Does that mean Hades and Cerberus are running around? Hecatoncheires? Medusa despite being killed off in Ruckas Batwoman? Heck, Phobos and Deimos are certainly popping back up.

Hmm...Come to think of it, this could lead to us getting the Duke of Deception, the Earl of Greed, and the Lord of Conquest back in comics too.

[kjn]

For what it's worth, the more I think of it, the more Cheetah and Artemis fit together. Remember that Greek gods weren't good or evil, they were more representing forces in various ways. Urzkartaga can then be another aspect or variation or corruption of whatever god the Greek worshipped as Aphrodite.

We get the aspects of the virgin handmaidens (or guardians), the vengeful and wrathful nature, the huntress and the connection to nature, and the connection with nature (as in the wilderness and the wild beasts).

[Agent Z]

Historically as far as the WW franchise is concerned.



Adhering to complete accuracy as far as the Greek myths are concerned is still not something Perez did. Otherwise Ares would indeed be their patron, the Amazons would be man haters and they would be lopping off one of their breasts. And Hippolyta would have been killed by Hercules. Since Marston was already upending the way that the Amazons were presented, doing the same to Aphrodite isn't much of a stretch. I think the modern/pop culture take on Aphrodite was fitting, because it distilled things down to a "love and wisdom vs. war" and "battle of the sexes, men are from Mars and women are from Venus" sort of thing. Making Aphrodite, one of the most classically feminine goddesses who rules over traditionally feminine attributes, so powerful fits in nicely with the Wonder Woman narrative. The patriarchal Greek myths painted her as a vain, horny and petty beauty queen, whereas the matriarchal narrative paints her as something else.

And while you are not wrong that Aphrodite and Athena just showed up in visions now and then, that's pretty much what all the Gods did in the Perez run. Show up and tell the Amazons to do things. hell, Athena had to tell Diana to enter the Contest when she was originally inclined to do it herself! So we have a gathering of goddesses still just doing what 1-2 were doing already. And one of them, the main one, got lost in the crowd and reduced to just giving the Amazons "the gift of love" (whatever that means) and a lock of her hair to Charon. And her great contribution to arming Wonder Woman is having her husband forge the Lasso, which is given powers by Hestia, instead of Aphrodite instructing the Amazons to forge it themselves from a magical item SHE gave them. A non-polytheistic take doesn't necessarily cut off an avenue for a larger scope in stories. Considering the world she is f

I mean, having the Amazons worship a sextet of goddesses as opposed to one isn't exactly in contradiction to the matriarchal narrative of the WW mythos either. Aphrodite may not have done much but she's one out of several female characters in Perez's run who all contribute something worthwhile in some way. It isn't like Perez downplayed the role of female characters completely. There's no reason to put Aphrodite above all the other goddesses except for preference. Even Marston's idea of the love Aphrodite presents is rather shallow and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Agreed! But he studied the myths much more closely than any other Wonder Woman writer (except now possibly Wilson), tried to see them without a Christian filter, and tried to integrate their meaning into both the modern world and superhero comics.

"Accuracy" is not really the goal here, since the original myths were inconsistent and mutable. "Mindset" is a far better word.

And yes, most any type of story background can be used to create rich stories. But DC already had a monotheistic myth to draw on, since so much of Jewish traditions and material ended up in Superman. And while doing a Christian approach to Greek myth isn't wrong in and of itself, it will likely end up hollow (just as the theology of the movie did) unless one really knows the source material really well on its own terms.

Rucka's take on Greek myth in his first run is pretty good too.

[WonderScott]

Kinda leaves me to wonder though, just who was caught up in this?
We know that the gods wound up on earth along with mythological types like the pegasus, minotaur, and the the titans. But most of the Titans are supposed to be bound in the underworld. Does that mean Hades and Cerberus are running around? Hecatoncheires? Medusa despite being killed off in Ruckas Batwoman? Heck, Phobos and Deimos are certainly popping back up.

Hmm...Come to think of it, this could lead to us getting the Duke of Deception, the Earl of Greed, and the Lord of Conquest back in comics too.

That's a bit of the intriguing mystery that we haven't really discussed yet. We know Ares was reborn after goading Grail to kill him, but were the other gods slayed, and by whom (singular or plural), and is that why they are being reborn with different natures than before? Will Zeus and Heracles be back after Darkseid and Grail murdered them in Robinson's run? Hmmm...

I'm liking the reborn angle as it's allowing GWW to reinterpret/reinforce other aspects and approaches of the gods, but what's prompting and who's behind this situation and what do they hope to gain from it? Hmmm... (The Sequel)

[Fuzzy Mittens]

For what it's worth, the more I think of it, the more Cheetah and Artemis fit together. Remember that Greek gods weren't good or evil, they were more representing forces in various ways. Urzkartaga can then be another aspect or variation or corruption of whatever god the Greek worshipped as Aphrodite.

We get the aspects of the virgin handmaidens (or guardians), the vengeful and wrathful nature, the huntress and the connection to nature, and the connection with nature (as in the wilderness and the wild beasts).

Well this certainly sounds intriguing. If its approached just right, I could see this being quite stellar an idea.

[WonderScott]

For what it's worth, the more I think of it, the more Cheetah and Artemis fit together. Remember that Greek gods weren't good or evil, they were more representing forces in various ways. Urzkartaga can then be another aspect or variation or corruption of whatever god the Greek worshipped as Aphrodite.

We get the aspects of the virgin handmaidens (or guardians), the vengeful and wrathful nature, the huntress and the connection to nature, and the connection with nature (as in the wilderness and the wild beasts).

I'm for it too. Artemis, Diana, Luna, and Selene all being connected to the moon too and it's mythological and folk tale role in lycanthropy.

[Agent Z]

For what it's worth, the more I think of it, the more Cheetah and Artemis fit together. Remember that Greek gods weren't good or evil, they were more representing forces in various ways. Urzkartaga can then be another aspect or variation or corruption of whatever god the Greek worshipped as Aphrodite.

We get the aspects of the virgin handmaidens (or guardians), the vengeful and wrathful nature, the huntress and the connection to nature, and the connection with nature (as in the wilderness and the wild beasts).

If you leave out all the murder, torture, rape, cursing humans for petty reasons. Yeah I guess they can't really be called evil.

[Joao]

2. No? While she was the goddess of love, the Aphrodite of the golden age was treated more as a goddess of ethics. With a whole idea that love is needed for peace to exist, and lines like 'power must be tempered by love.' and such. It was very much the idea that if someone didn't follow Aphrodites teachings of having love for every living thing, they would be susceptible to corruption by their own power.

I feel that's what Rucka tried to bring back with the origin of the amazons and Ares in Rebirth. It's a shame it was done so late in the run and everyone was a bit tired by its pacing.

Let's see if Wilson develops that idea, since Ares and Aphrodite seem to be important figures in her run.