Is Jean Grey the biggest goodie two shoes in X character history?

[Sardorim]

This 616 Jean Gad other things on her mind. She recently told Rachel that she wasn’t her mother.

And of course she allowed kid Cable to escape after he killed Adult Cable.

Gold happened BEFORE Red.

In Red she bonded with Rachel and calls her her daughter.

[Sardorim]

Jean literally says Rachel was too broken/damaged by her pain than just stands there and literally watches Ahab take Rachel.

Del Torro is intentionally ignoring what literally happened on the page.

I have no issue showing a scan of the page in question where Jean gives up, let's Rachel get taken, and is apathetic over the entire thing. You can even see her stoic facial expression and the lack of alarm from her that her daughter, that she bonded with in Red, was taken by her abuser.

She literally gave up and didn't even care over what happened. Hence why later in Execution she doesn't mention Rachel at all nor did she try to comfort Rachel when Cable died

[Del torro]

this is a better nuanced view on the matter

I should apologize for trolling though. I can't imagine how passed I would be if it was Jean or storm (though she's been suffering) going through all this, and it's Incredibly frustrating and annoying after Cassandra and Mesmero turn Rachel to a hound earlier in this year' already.

Rachel has broken the Hound programming twice, and Jean helped her in Xmen Red. The two of them should have easily broken through it and freed Rachel, but the writers enjoy making her suffer.


Big Rachel fans, I apologize for my trolling in various threads, I hope 2019s holds great things for Rachel

[Del torro]

Incorrect.

Jean literally says Rachel was too broken/damaged by her pain than just stands there and literally watches Ahab take Rachel.

Del Torro is intentionally ignoring what literally happened on the page.

I have no issue showing a scan of the page in question where Jean gives up, let's Rachel get taken, and is apathetic over the entire thing. You can even see her stoic facial expression and the lack of alarm from her that her daughter, that she bonded with in Red, was taken by her abuser.

She literally gave up and didn't even care over what happened. Hence why later in Execution she doesn't mention Rachel at all nor did she try to comfort Rachel when Cable died

With all due respect, Rachel teleports out before Jean says that she wasn't able to save her




-Jean saves all the hounds
-Bobby asks how and she explains
-they show Rachel and a wounded ahab
-cable shouts "Rachel!"
-they teleport out
-Bobby asks why she was still a hound, and Jean said she couldn't save her
-Cable says he will go after ahab

All these happened really fast. There was no "Oh, Rachel is with Ahab, lol, let him take her, who cares layout her lol" before they teleport out.

[Sardorim]

And it proves that Jean literally is apathetic to Rachel being taken. She showed more emotion to Kid Cable right after Rachel was taken.

Heck, Jean is smiling at Kid Cable.

Where was her hurt expression for her daughter or tears? Nowhere. She calmly explains things like it doesn't matter to her or effect her at all.

Then Kid Cable runs up and she's instantly happy. Not a single tear or sign of sadness over losing the daughter she just bonded with in Red or the fact that Kid Cable had killed Cable whom she bonded with in the past.

[WallStreeter]

And it proves that Jean literally is apathetic to Rachel being taken. She showed more emotion to Kid Cable right after Rachel was taken.

Heck, Jean is smiling at Kid Cable.

Where was her hurt expression for her daughter or tears? Nowhere. She calmly explains things like it doesn't matter to her or effect her at all.

Then Kid Cable runs up and she's instantly happy. Not a single tear or sign of sadness over losing the daughter she just bonded with in Red or the fact that Kid Cable had killed Cable whom she bonded with in the past.

Iceman had a look of shock and horror on his face that Jean did not have. After her huge outburst of power freeing the XMen from the hound programming, we see Jean make no special effort to free Rachel. Nor does she say she’ll try to find her.

I think Jean and the XMen don’t care because they are going to kill Rachel off in XForce, giving kid Cable character development. Rachel being made to be this easy to control or revert to a hound makes her useless to the XMen.

[Havok83]

And it proves that Jean literally is apathetic to Rachel being taken. She showed more emotion to Kid Cable right after Rachel was taken.

Heck, Jean is smiling at Kid Cable.

Where was her hurt expression for her daughter or tears? Nowhere. She calmly explains things like it doesn't matter to her or effect her at all.

Then Kid Cable runs up and she's instantly happy. Not a single tear or sign of sadness over losing the daughter she just bonded with in Red or the fact that Kid Cable had killed Cable whom she bonded with in the past.

She doesnt consider Rachel to be her daughter. She's acknowledged the biological connection but bc of the circumstances, she doesnt love Rachel like that. That is just not a relationship that has ever been developed. It makes sense that she isnt crying over Rachel, nor would I expect to see her get emotional. I think the thing she owes Rachel si vowing to find a way to save her and I think thats the basic courtesy one would do as a teammate, not bc thats supposed to be her child

There are still so many questions about Kid Cable but they approached it as him being the same Cable. In that case, what he di was pretty much commit suicide which he wont feel the effects of for about another 40 years. Jean's smiling bc she's relieved to see her son whom she thought was dead and gone early on. It probaly helps that KC is just a few years older than Nathan was when she initially had to leave him.

[Disciple of Redd]

Rachel is from an alternate but similar dimension. Jean is not her mom.

Heck, Jean isn't Cable's mother, tbh, but at least she mothered him for a bit. Rachel needs help. She knows she's from another universe but insists on creepily pretending these people, who are not 5 years older than her, are her parents. Like dude, get a grip.

[Havok83]

Rachel is from an alternate but similar dimension. Jean is not her mom.

Heck, Jean isn't Cable's mother, tbh, but at least she mothered him for a bit. Rachel needs help. She knows she's from another universe but insists on creepily pretending these people, who are not 5 years older than her, are her parents. Like dude, get a grip.

She really doesnt or least hasnt for years. The current Rachel has accepted that Jean isnt her mother and isnt obsessing over her the way Claremont wrote her to

[PsychoEFrost]

Rachel is from an alternate but similar dimension. Jean is not her mom.

Heck, Jean isn't Cable's mother, tbh, but at least she mothered him for a bit. Rachel needs help. She knows she's from another universe but insists on creepily pretending these people, who are not 5 years older than her, are her parents. Like dude, get a grip.

I don't get this problem. For fans of a powerful empath, there's a disturbing lack of empathy here.

From Rachel's perspective, she's born, watches her mom die, gets put through the wringer, then ends up in a parallel universe. In this universe is her mom, but just not her mom who gave birth to her. And you think that it's Rachel's fault for trying to treat this woman as her mom?

When I had the most nightmarish moments of my life when I was 20, I managed to survive and get home, and the very first thing I did is cry in my mom's arms. It shouldn't take that much from a supposedly highly caring person like Jean to see that perspective.

[Bl00dwerK]

Probably. Though Teen Jean and this new version have been skirting the line. Changing people's minds, against their will, isn't very "goodie-2-shoes".

[darewithpeace]

LEAVE Jean Alone

[butterflykyss]

didnt jean kill like a planet inhabited by millions of people, fantasized her best friend was a slave and even caused her best friend fiance not to propose to her? jean is a lot of things but being a goodie two shoes isnt one of them.

[Triniking1234]

didnt jean kill like a planet inhabited by millions of people, fantasized her best friend was a slave and even caused her best friend fiance not to propose to her?

No, no and yes.

[PsychoEFrost]

No, no and yes.

Uh... pretty sure she noped the D'Bari galaxy.

Unless you want to run the whole "Phoenix was an imposter" story that made no sense when it was introduced and has been retconned around 17 times.