What To Do With a Problem Like Rachel

[WallStreeter]

Given she hasnt faired well with the X-men it wouldnt have been the worst idea to expand her and establish connections in the larger MU

Writers and editors in the larger MU don't want Rachel or Maddie. They are too obviously rip offs of Jean Grey, and if they wanted Jean they would reach out to the X-Office for Jean herself. Like when Bendis had Jean give Jessica Jones telepathic therapy to recover from Purple Man.

Or like when teen Jean appeared in Black Vortex and before that the X-Men/Guardians crossover. Not to mention her book. Not to mention Adult Jean reaching out to the Avengers.

[WallStreeter]

We can hem and haw about every decision writers have ever made, but the fact remains they made them. She's on Earth, and currently the sex toy of one of the biggest psychopaths in Marvel, with exactly zero of her former teammates giving two shits on panel.

Editorial should be ashamed of this bullcrap.

Editorial just wanted to get rid of her. She's been destroyed recently, since anyone (Mesmero, Cassandra Nova, or the twins) can turn her into a hound.

[WallStreeter]

It's not that she hasn't faired well. It's that she didn't have anything to do. She has a very generic powerset, and the alternate universe/troubled future storyline has been done to death. It didn't help that they put her in a terrible costume and gave her a terrible codename. "Prestige"? She looked like a caped bellhop. She was like a Character actor contracted to a soap opera whose character hasn't been given a meaningful storyline in ages, but still retained a certain level of popularity with the fans.

Plus Cable does the timeline/troubled issues much better than Rachel.

[WallStreeter]

The real tragedy for Rachel is that her place in X-media has totally been usurped by Cable. With him around, she'll never get a fair shot. Honestly, her origin needs some kind of a rework. She needs a hook.

She was given Jean's powers, and Jean's codenames both times when Jean was dead. She came across as a cheap replacement. When mass media (cartoons, movies) decided to use the X-Men, they chose Jean herself. It made her popularity mushroom over Rachel, who since has had nothing to do.

At least Hope has her unique powers and a history not dependent on Jean. Incidentally Hope makes next year's X-Men, where Rachel doesn't.

Just being a telepath/telekinetic has become very generic in the X-Universe lately. At least Psylocke has her ninja fighting and her psychic weapons. Rachel has no unique application or visuals.

[Disciple of Redd]

I’m not a huge Rachel fan (I don’t dislike her either) but I don’t think being a derivative of jean or having the sameness powers is a good enough excuse for her treatment.

Otherwise the same thing would apply to x-23 and other wolverine derivatives. Writers just have to care enough to give her a purpose and an Identity.

Again I don’t care about Rachel one or the others- if she disappears I won’t bat an eye- but I think it’s more fair to say her poor treatment is lack of writer interest or effort and not just that she’s “too much like jean.”

The difference between Rachel and X-23 is a simple one. As a basic concept, "Wolverine as a girl" is an objectively more interesting idea than "Alternate Universe NotJeanGrey"

[Vaishakh]

One option would be remove Rachel as daughter of Jean and have someone else be her mother like Emma or 811-Kate Pryde. This would allow her to get out of Jean's shadow. Another option would be to have her associate heavily with Scott who would work pretty well with Rachel and can have a pretty good parent-child dynamic. She can also work with Magneto on antagonistic role and etc. There are a lot of things that can be done as long as there are writers and editors who are willing to do her good, she will be.

[PrezValentine]

I’m not a huge Rachel fan (I don’t dislike her either) but I don’t think being a derivative of jean or having the sameness powers is a good enough excuse for her treatment.

Otherwise the same thing would apply to x-23 and other wolverine derivatives. Writers just have to care enough to give her a purpose and an Identity.

Again I don’t care about Rachel one or the others- if she disappears I won’t bat an eye- but I think it’s more fair to say her poor treatment is lack of writer interest or effort and not just that she’s “too much like jean.”

Comes down to the difference between Jean and Logan
Which one is the character with his own rogues gallery?
Which one has a rich history that spans all over the Marvel universe?
Which one can be used in different types of story because his character can be used to in many ways?
And which one can actually hold a solo title?

Wolverine is objectively (using the word very loosely here) a more interesting character than Jean, therefore a Wolverine derivative will naturally be more attractive to writters than a Jean derivative.

[CRaymond]

"Alternate Universe NotJeanGrey"

That is a huge disservice. I’ll grant you that interpretation is valid, given how often she’s compared to Jean, but Rachel Summers’ character concept is the futility of the Dream. She is the daughter of Xavier’s most powerful protege and his surrogate son, Rachel is not just a “Jean Grey” legacy character but the “X-Men Franchise” legacy character. From the perspective of Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Colossus, Xavier’s Dream and the X-Men’s mission is not an immediate achievement, but a long term goal. They toil away in a world that hates and fears them so that the next generation might have a better tomorrow. In that effort, Rachel should be the premiere benefactor of their investment.

Instead, she arrives coming from a nightmare dystopia, where the X-Men’s best work is for naught. The first child of the best X-Men is traumatized and violent, and shows signs of the power that threatened the universe and killed her mother.

Like others say, it’s the exploitation of pain and despair, but that’s the X-Men’s central motif. And while Rachel’s parents have been sore spots in her time with the X-Men, Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Colossus were her surrogate family... the X-Men’s other central theme.

[Vaishakh]

That is a huge disservice. I’ll grant you that interpretation is valid, given how often she’s compared to Jean, but Rachel Summers’ character concept is the futility of the Dream. She is the daughter of Xavier’s most powerful protege and his surrogate son, Rachel is not just a “Jean Grey” legacy character but the “X-Men Franchise” legacy character. From the perspective of Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Colossus, Xavier’s Dream and the X-Men’s mission is not an immediate achievement, but a long term goal. They toil away in a world that hates and fears them so that the next generation might have a better tomorrow. In that effort, Rachel should be the premiere benefactor of their investment.

Instead, she arrives coming from a nightmare dystopia, where the X-Men’s best work is for naught. The first child of the best X-Men is traumatized and violent, and shows signs of the power that threatened the universe and killed her mother.

Like others say, it’s the exploitation of pain and despair, but that’s the X-Men’s central motif. And while Rachel’s parents have been sore spots in her time with the X-Men, Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Colossus were her surrogate family... the X-Men’s other central theme.

I am not going to disagree with you but "Alternate Universe NotJeanGrey" is pretty much exactly as editors of X-men see her.

[CRaymond]

I am not going to disagree with you but "Alternate Universe NotJeanGrey" is pretty much exactly as editors of X-men see her.

Yeah I was talking to them too. I blame Claremont.

[PrezValentine]

That is a huge disservice. I’ll grant you that interpretation is valid, given how often she’s compared to Jean, but Rachel Summers’ character concept is the futility of the Dream. She is the daughter of Xavier’s most powerful protege and his surrogate son, Rachel is not just a “Jean Grey” legacy character but the “X-Men Franchise” legacy character. From the perspective of Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Colossus, Xavier’s Dream and the X-Men’s mission is not an immediate achievement, but a long term goal. They toil away in a world that hates and fears them so that the next generation might have a better tomorrow. In that effort, Rachel should be the premiere benefactor of their investment.

Instead, she arrives coming from a nightmare dystopia, where the X-Men’s best work is for naught. The first child of the best X-Men is traumatized and violent, and shows signs of the power that threatened the universe and killed her mother.

Like others say, it’s the exploitation of pain and despair, but that’s the X-Men’s central motif. And while Rachel’s parents have been sore spots in her time with the X-Men, Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Colossus were her surrogate family... the X-Men’s other central theme.

She's really a great concept when you look at her like this. Shame Marvel can't see it these days.

[Cerridwen]

She sould shave her hair again. When she grew her hair out thats’s when she reminded people of Jean. Rachel’s supposed to look weird like a really hot butch lesbian.

[Shriveling_memo]

Not every mutant has to be an xmen. Highest problem for xmen as a whole. None of them move beyond the group, except the popular ones

[ClanAskani]

The difference between Rachel and X-23 is a simple one. As a basic concept, "Wolverine as a girl" is an objectively more interesting idea than "Alternate Universe NotJeanGrey"

Laura really isn't Wolverine as a girl. It's a girl with Wolverine's abilities and an interesting backstory (IMO more interesting than Wolverine's).

Rachel isn't Jean - she's the child of Jean and Scott. She's someone who has grown up as an X-Man which gives her a completely different perspective than anyone else, along with having grow-up in a dystopian future.

[WallStreeter]

Laura really isn't Wolverine as a girl. It's a girl with Wolverine's abilities and an interesting backstory (IMO more interesting than Wolverine's).

Rachel isn't Jean - she's the child of Jean and Scott. She's someone who has grown up as an X-Man which gives her a completely different perspective than anyone else, along with having grow-up in a dystopian future.

Yet most of her time she's used Jean's codenames, and she has Jean's powers. She was a replacement of Jean that really had no traits of Cyclops. Claremont even intended for her to have no father, to basically say Phoenix/Jean spawned herself and got herself pregnant with Rachel. That never made the publication where she is canonically Scott's daughter, but it explains why she doesn't even have Scott's hair or eye color or anything to suggest a relationship to him. Rachel doesn't work because her backstory is too boring to place in cartoons and movies, and she is too similar to Jean Grey.