How Would You Reduce The Bat-Family?

[Timothy Hunter]

To commence, I would like to say I like the concept of the Bat-family Family. I'm not one of those Dan DiDio types who think there should be no legacy characters whatsoever and that characters such as Batman, Superman, etcetera should have no super powered supporting characters in their books. I am, in large, against that mindset.

However, I am under the opinion that the Bat Family is too large for it's own good. This leads to numerous issues that I will list subsequently:

1. The sheer excess of Bat-Family members makes it hard to believe that Gotham is as much of a crime ridden city as it still is.

2. Considering the scope of the Bat-family, it is physically impossible for DC not to neglect many fan favorites associated with that corner of the DC universe. Causing fan resentment and alienation.

3. Due to the Bat-family's large quantity, much of the character's are derivative of one another. Jason is a little too similar to Damian. Damian is a little too similar to Cassandra, etcetera. With 5 Robins, 3 Batgirls, and god knows how many miscellaneous characters, not all of them can be unique.

If you share my views, how would you tackle this problem?

[Gurz]

I agree that Batman familly is too large but...

1. There are probably 40.000 cops in Gotham, and they can't keep her safe... and you consider only like 12 or something vigilante more than enough ? no way dude... but storywise, they are too many. I love to read them indivicually. Like Reading Robin book, Nighwing book, Birds of Prey, Batgirl etc. But when all of them are together, they sometimes crap Batman style. I'm not much of a team book guy but i can't get enough of street level loner vigilante so i'm on the side of don't add anymore sidekick to the book and keep what you have as seperate vigilantes each who share a seperate part of Gotham.

2. As long as DC don't neglect Batman and Nightwing, i'm ok... Every character has some fan, you can't make everyone happy.

3. How come Damian similar to Cassandra in anyway other than martial arts ? and all of the Bat familly knows Martial Arts. Cass never complains, strong, silent type, the closest personalty to Batman, and i like that lol If Bruce ever quit, he should choose Cass as the succeser, if you ask me. Damina is a brat, so full of himself, giant ego, and murderous, spoiled.

[Caivu]

I wouldn't.

1. The sheer excess of Bat-Family members makes it hard to believe that Gotham is as much of a crime ridden city as it still is.

Or: the fact that Gotham is still as bad as it is with all of them active means that it would be so much worse if they weren't around.

2. Considering the scope of the Bat-family, it is physically impossible for DC not to neglect many fan favorites associated with that corner of the DC universe. Causing fan resentment and alienation.

Hardly impossible. It just requires some double- or tripling-up. Or more.

Also: do you think reducing them wouldn't cause "resentment and alienation"?

3. Due to the Bat-family's large quantity, much of the character's are derivative of one another. Jason is a little too similar to Damian. Damian is a little too similar to Cassandra, etcetera. With 5 Robins, 3 Batgirls, and god knows how many miscellaneous characters, not all of them can be unique.

They don't have to be perfectly, capital-U Unique. That would actually feel more artificial. Of course there's going to be overlap in a big roster of unpowered superheroes.

[DebkoX]

Pesticide ma dawg.

[Fergus]

To commence, I would like to say I like the concept of the Bat-family Family. I'm not one of those Dan DiDio types who think there should be no legacy characters whatsoever and that characters such as Batman, Superman, etcetera should have no super powered supporting characters in their books. I am, in large, against that mindset.

However, I am under the opinion that the Bat Family is too large for it's own good. This leads to numerous issues that I will list subsequently:

1. The sheer excess of Bat-Family members makes it hard to believe that Gotham is as much of a crime ridden city as it still is.

2. Considering the scope of the Bat-family, it is physically impossible for DC not to neglect many fan favorites associated with that corner of the DC universe. Causing fan resentment and alienation.

3. Due to the Bat-family's large quantity, much of the character's are derivative of one another. Jason is a little too similar to Damian. Damian is a little too similar to Cassandra, etcetera. With 5 Robins, 3 Batgirls, and god knows how many miscellaneous characters, not all of them can be unique.

If you share my views, how would you tackle this problem?

Damian is pretty much the opposite of Jason and Cass borrows from original Damian but they are still different enough.
Tim is similar to everyone even down to having living parents that he has no access to like Duke.


I think there is a place for most of the characters but don't group them all as Bat Family.

Batfamily to me is Bruce, Alfred, Babs and the boys who were robin replace Tim with Duke who brings something fresh to the table as Signal operating in the day.
Dick is the first
Jason is Red Hood and Damian is the Son of batman and Wayne heir.
Duke is the everyman who fight in the daylight, has meta detecting skills and he is Back.

Cass is suitable for outsider.

Tim really has little point. He is just surplus. Erasure from Canon, Resets and Demotion back to Robin. DC feels the same and still struggling to find a function for him after 10 years. I would get rid of him.

Though YJ will do though it only delays the inevitable. Just have him in that and not going by Robin.

[Caivu]

I would get rid of him and Kate. She is also pretty pointless

No. She's the supernatural and terrorism specialist, and presents a thornier challenge to the "no-kill" rule, since she's Bruce's family and doesn't violate said rule as often or out of anger or personal reasons like Jason does. There's value in the fact that she approaches vigilantism from a different angle than pretty much all the others.

[MajorHoy]

How Would You Reduce The Bat-Family?

WHY would you reduce the Bat-Family?

It's not as if every single one of them is each appearing in a gazillion different comic books all at the same time every time!

[Fergus]

I agree that Batman familly is too large but...

1. There are probably 40.000 cops in Gotham, and they can't keep her safe... and you consider only like 12 or something vigilante more than enough ? no way dude... but storywise, they are too many. I love to read them indivicually. Like Reading Robin book, Nighwing book, Birds of Prey, Batgirl etc. But when all of them are together, they sometimes crap Batman style. I'm not much of a team book guy but i can't get enough of street level loner vigilante so i'm on the side of don't add anymore sidekick to the book and keep what you have as seperate vigilantes each who share a seperate part of Gotham.

2. As long as DC don't neglect Batman and Nightwing, i'm ok... Every character has some fan, you can't make everyone happy.

3. How come Damian similar to Cassandra in anyway other than martial arts ? and all of the Bat familly knows Martial Arts. Cass never complains, strong, silent type, the closest personalty to Batman, and i like that lol If Bruce ever quit, he should choose Cass as the succeser, if you ask me. Damina is a brat, so full of himself, giant ego, and murderous, spoiled.

They are not similar it's like saying Jason, Dick and Damian are alike because they died and came back.
Cass is as much a murderer as Damian and No Cass is the pretty much the worst pick as a successor for Batman whose main ace is his detective skills.
Cass is fighter not a thinker.

Cass doesn't have a personality like Bruce. Cass isn't spoiled, egotistical, manipulative rude or full of herself that she has to put her mark on absolutely everything that she owns. Cass isn't cold , obsessive and paranoid.
Cass is controlling or willing to go grey.
Cass would never spy on people, kidnap people, make plans for taking down her closets pals, lie to her closets pals or use them. Cass is respectful

Cass is not like Bruce.

[Fergus]

No. She's the supernatural and terrorism specialist, and presents a thornier challenge to the "no-kill" rule, since she's Bruce's family and doesn't violate said rule as often or out of anger or personal reasons like Jason does. There's value in the fact that she approaches vigilantism from a different angle than pretty much all the others.

As you can see I erased that part about Kate before I saw your post it occurs to me since I haven't read her titles I really can't justify my pov. I just don't know her which is different .

[The tall man]

No. She's the supernatural and terrorism specialist, and presents a thornier challenge to the "no-kill" rule, since she's Bruce's family and doesn't violate said rule as often or out of anger or personal reasons like Jason does. There's value in the fact that she approaches vigilantism from a different angle than pretty much all the others.

Is Kate really much more of a supernatural specialist than Bruce? Yeah she had the Religion of Crime and the vampire thing but over his career Batman has dealt with far more supernatural threats than Kate. On top of his connections to magical individuals such as Diana, Zatanna, Constantine, Jason Blood/Etrigan and others. I think Bruce is well versed in dealing with the supernatural and would say he surpasses Kate in that area.

[nhienphan2808]

However Kate is, i don't think Bruce should have YET ANOTHER family member who is a Bat-something, meaning she could exist, but not as Batwoman or Bruce's cousin.
As for the rest, i wouldn't reduce as much as i would write them so that they dont feel redundant. For example, Tim is. Bruce would still need him, but on at the prise of Dick and Babs and jason' skills and development. Steph should be Robin before him, he would be her sidekick before taking the mantle from her.

[Gurz]

They are not similar it's like saying Jason, Dick and Damian are alike because they died and came back.
Cass is as much a murderer as Damian and No Cass is the pretty much the worst pick as a successor for Batman whose main ace is his detective skills.
Cass is fighter not a thinker.

Cass doesn't have a personality like Bruce. Cass isn't spoiled, egotistical, manipulative rude or full of herself that she has to put her mark on absolutely everything that she owns. Cass isn't cold , obsessive and paranoid.
Cass is controlling or willing to go grey.
Cass would never spy on people, kidnap people, make plans for taking down her closets pals, lie to her closets pals or use them. Cass is respectful

Cass is not like Bruce.

Yeah, Cass doesn't have Bruce's bad parts but you dance around everything same, she is dark, strong and silent type and as obssesed as Batman when it comes to finish the job. She's not a detective, yeah but so does Terry. Batman doesn't have to be detective forever. Cass never goes grey... She absolutely regrets her past and hate killing people. She's the best candidate Bruce has.

[scary harpy]

I wouldn't reduce the family...I would increase the city.

I would have Gotham City merge with another nearby city - called 'New Amsterdam' for sake of example - and this would make Gotham one of the largest cities in the world! (Maybe the 2nd or 3rd largest.)

'New Amsterdam' does not support vigilantes so this makes things difficult for the Batfamily.

This should give everyone enough room to breathe.

[Caivu]

Is Kate really much more of a supernatural specialist than Bruce? Yeah she had the Religion of Crime and the vampire thing but over his career Batman has dealt with far more supernatural threats than Kate.

She also dealt with Medusa and their ilk, as well as Morgaine le Fey. And took down some Talons pretty easily. Percentage-wise, more of her villains are supernatural than Bruce's are.

On top of his connections to magical individuals such as Diana, Zatanna, Constantine, Jason Blood/Etrigan and others.

Kate has worked with three of those, and Zatanna is currently one of Beth's therapists.

I think Bruce is well versed in dealing with the supernatural and would say he surpasses Kate in that area.

So what? It's not what he focuses on, that's the point.

If we're using the logic of "Bruce is best at x, so no one else can do x", then none of the others can do martial arts or conduct investigations, either.

[dropkickjake]

Fun question! I think this is less about reducing the number of Batfamily characters and more about increasing the diversity of their books' directions. DC doesn't need 6 mini-Batmans running around Gotham, but having the former Robins and extended family members operate in different corners of the DCU would be great. Here's a look at how I'd do if I was EiC.

I'd put Dick Grayson back into a world of Morrisonian espionage. Bring back the Batman Inc Kathy Kane as the true leader of Spyral and have her groom Dick as her heir apparent.

Jason Todd would join back up with Arsenal and maybe Starfire (or another alien) and he and his outlaws would become sci-fi space bounty hunters. You can keep this in character and really play up the antihero. He only accepts contracts on bad dudes. We would get a bat character who regularly interacts with the Green Lantern Corps, Lobo, and other cosmic characters.

Tim Drake is a tougher nut to crack for me. I think he works best as Bruce Wayne's partner, but it'd be tough remove Damian from the role. I'd really want to play up his everyman status, bring back his mom and dad and have him live at home. His book would need to be sherlock holmes more than james bond. Sorta like that movie Brick?

Thats all off the top of my head, but this general idea. Give the larger characters unique directions and then bring the secondary characters (Huntress, Spoiler, et c) into the orbit of the major ones (Babs, Tim, et c).