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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Anyone who says that Marvel used to be pure escapism that rarely touched the on the real world and that, when they did, it was unobtrusive, is speaking from an uninformed position.

    Marvel has always been rife with politics. If anything, it used to be much more blatant in that regard.

    You cannot go too far into '60s and '70s Marvel without being hit in the face with the issues of the day, oftentimes using language that would be shocking in today's PC times.

    I just re-read the early issues of Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man and the two issue story in #9 and #10 co-starring the White Tiger revolves around student protests at ESU and the university's president refers to the angry, largely minority, protesters as "loudmouthed slum kids." And later calls the White Tiger a "Puerto Rican hoodlum" in league with "young thugs who defy my authority."

    The two issues are full of heated racist rhetoric from President Dwyer and writer Bill Mantlo is very clear about where his sympathies lie in this tale.

    Marvel has always been political and has always had a foot firmly in the real world. It's nothing new and, if anything, today's comics are much more mild in that regard.
    To say nothing of the X-MEN and their recurring moral of ''racism is bad''.

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    We already know exactly how his idea of worthiness relates to Thor. It's that Thor is still just as worthy as he always was, but is humble enough to still question that after being exposed to the concept of flawed gods. So that doubt makes him "unworthy" until he reaches a new height that he's already on his way to by Mangog. The story is about how he's already the best god, but now he believes he has to be better. That's the objective throughline of his arc over the entire run.
    I don't think Aaron has been anywhere near as consistent with what exactly "worthiness" means in his run, especially when he couldn't even write a convincing reason for why Thor couldn't wield his hammer anymore aside from Nick Fury whispering a personal opinion in his ear. I think there've been, like, 5-6 different reasonings as to what exactly makes one worthy in this run alone.

    I also don't think Aaron has really written him as still being as worthy as he was before. Occasionally, but far from how he's depicted Jane as Thor and how she became touted as being the best Thor to ever Thor (trademark). Granted, she just acted a lot like how he used too. But contrast that with shirtless, swaggering, mead-obsessed Thor after he couldn't wield his hammer.

    And I don't know if he's going to be better when Aaron hasn't even returned him to his prime yet. But I guess we have to have Mjolnir back for that to happen.
    I can't think of a single person more screwed than whoever has to take over Thor next year. Well, maybe future X-Men writers. Marvel better pull out a cocaine-fueled Donny Cates clone who speaks loose Shakespearean by default.
    The same could probably be said for most creative team shifts after a long-running writer's run, but those tend to work out okay.

    I just hope whoever the new writer is feels like a noticeable shift from Aaron.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    If that's so, it's only because he was Jane Thor's sole writer so there wasn't decades of Jane Thor stories for fans to hold up and say "But I liked it better when she was written this way!"
    Well, yeah, there's not a lot of major Jane stuff to hold up to and compare, just how he portrayed Jane versus how he portrayed Thor.
    Also, Jane's storyline had an attractive novelty to it. First, based on the mystery of her identity and secondly based on her battle with cancer. There was the possibility that her story would be finite, which everyone knows Thor's never will be.
    I think the attractive novelty helped a lot, especially since the fight with cancer was made a big part of Jane's character in that run, but the feminist and empowering portrayal of the character was probably also a big part of it.
    I don't think any writer can guarantee success on name alone. They sell based on the quality of the work. When a book sells strongly for years on end, people aren't picking it up because of the name on the cover. They're picking it up because they the work itself is compelling.

    If that writer isn't delivering, sales are eventually going to fall off.
    I think there's enough precedence for writers who are big enough that just attaching their name to something is pretty much a guarantee of strong sales, especially compared to other writers. Being on a big-name book helps too.

    Quality is still a factor to some degree, but it's not the only one.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think there's enough precedence for writers who are big enough that just attaching their name to something is pretty much a guarantee of strong sales, especially compared to other writers. Being on a big-name book helps too.

    Quality is still a factor to some degree, but it's not the only one.
    Loeb and Bendis' entire career hinges on that.

  4. #64
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Aaron's Thor run has had it's moments but I really don't like how Thor has been "dumbed" down for lack of a better word.

    And it's more than just being dumbed down. Thor has been very philosophical at times but there is no hint of it in this latest run.

    Thor asks of his worthiness but has made sacrifice after sacrifice not only to save Asgard and Earth but the entire universe.

    I cannot see how he thinks himself unworthy. It can't be a matter of praise or worship because Thor has never sought that(Young Thor excluded).

    This Thor does not seem too bright.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Aaron's Thor run has had it's moments but I really don't like how Thor has been "dumbed" down for lack of a better word.

    And it's more than just being dumbed down. Thor has been very philosophical at times but there is no hint of it in this latest run.

    Thor asks of his worthiness but has made sacrifice after sacrifice not only to save Asgard and Earth but the entire universe.

    I cannot see how he thinks himself unworthy. It can't be a matter of praise or worship because Thor has never sought that(Young Thor excluded).

    This Thor does not seem too bright.
    I agree very much with this

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Loeb and Bendis' entire career hinges on that.
    Loeb and Bendis are the only Marvel writers i truly hate.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Thank you and Thank you again. I am simply just speaking/writing on what I am witnessing and noticing. Going back and reading the older stories have taught me a lot. All the way down to reading Stan's Soap box and the letter pages in the back of the books. The atmosphere at Marvel has changed and it reflects in their writing.
    You're welcome buddy. I also made a couple of threads about the character derailment of Thanos here https://community.cbr.com/showthread...huggish-Thanos and here https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Thanos-Rising

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    Kinda like what he did to the eternals in Thanos Rising.
    I had forced myself to forget Thanos Rising ever happened until you reminded me. That was an absolute disgrace and Aaron should not be allowed near any cosmic/god like characters at all.

    To be fair, he isn't the only one to absolutely massacre Thanos; even Hickman used him in a ridiculous manner in Secret Wars.

  9. #69
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribalfusion View Post
    I had forced myself to forget Thanos Rising ever happened until you reminded me. That was an absolute disgrace and Aaron should not be allowed near any cosmic/god like characters at all.

    To be fair, he isn't the only one to absolutely massacre Thanos; even Hickman used him in a ridiculous manner in Secret Wars.
    I thought Hickmans Thanos was pretty descent until the VERY end. His confrontation with Doom was pretty bad.

  10. #70
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    We're forgetting about the character assassination of Death? Seriously, she doesn't talk to Thanos for the entirety of Infinity Gauntlet, but she chats up a storm when he's young. What the hell?

  11. #71
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    We're forgetting about the character assassination of Death? Seriously, she doesn't talk to Thanos for the entirety of Infinity Gauntlet, but she chats up a storm when he's young. What the hell?
    I can sort of buy that. Basically death is a tease. When Thsnos is interested she gives him the silent treatment, but when he's not she's on him like duct tape.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by tribalfusion View Post
    I had forced myself to forget Thanos Rising ever happened until you reminded me. That was an absolute disgrace and Aaron should not be allowed near any cosmic/god like characters at all.

    To be fair, he isn't the only one to absolutely massacre Thanos; even Hickman used him in a ridiculous manner in Secret Wars.
    I agree. Aaron is one of those writers that should stick to hard boiled street level characters like Wolverine, Punisher and Daredevil.

    As for Hickman, it's really sad. His Cosmic stories with the Avengers and Fantastic Four is amazing but he regressed Thanos into the edgelord cousin of Mongul. Although he was kind of forced by editorial to write Thanos that way.
    Last edited by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree; 12-28-2018 at 01:31 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I can sort of buy that. Basically death is a tease. When Thsnos is interested she gives him the silent treatment, but when he's not she's on him like duct tape.
    That's still a character-assassination. Death normally doesn't talk to Thanos because she's a force of balance, kind of a cosmic hippy. In trying to kill everyone before their time, Thanos is being clueless about what she really wants. He basically tries to impress the hippy by acting like a kill-happy Arnold Schwarzenegger character, she wants none of it. So yeah, the idea that she's a tease is a denigration of her character.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    That's still a character-assassination. Death normally doesn't talk to Thanos because she's a force of balance, kind of a cosmic hippy. In trying to kill everyone before their time, Thanos is being clueless about what she really wants. He basically tries to impress the hippy by acting like a kill-happy Arnold Schwarzenegger character, she wants none of it. So yeah, the idea that she's a tease is a denigration of her character.
    All of Jim Starlin characters can be described as Cosmic Hippies. Especially Adam Warlock.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda2000 View Post
    People are saying Wiccan is the breakout star from Young Avengers and... God, I wish lol. Kate Bishop it's the real one. She had a bunch of duo/solo books regularly for a while and after that got cancelled she soon enough got on a team book that she's the leader of(with a cast that includes: Her best friend, her boyfriend and her mentor/partner). Meanwhile, Billy has only been in one book since the last volume of Young Avengers, that has been cancelled since 2016.
    I like wiccan a lot

    But I agree, Kate has a much higher profile imo

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