View Poll Results: ASM # 801 OR PP:SSM #310?

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  • ASM #801

    3 12.00%
  • PP:SSM #310

    21 84.00%
  • Another (write in)

    1 4.00%
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  1. #1
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    Default Throwdown! ASM # 801 vs PP:SSM #310

    I think it is safe to say these 2 issues (Slott and Zdarsky's respective swan songs from their titles) are the 2 best stand-alone Spidey tales of 2018 and perhaps two of the better one-and-done stories in recent memory as well.

    So, let's do an old-fashioned throwdown and see which of these stories you think is the better; of course, you can vote "another" if you thought there was another standalone (or one-and-done) Spidey story from 2018 that you thought was even better----just let us know what it was!
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  2. #2
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    It's interesting to note how they differ...one ends relatively upbeat and reflective, one is a tragic cautionary tale.

  3. #3
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    It's interesting to note how they differ...one ends relatively upbeat and reflective, one is a tragic cautionary tale.
    Exactly. I felt the story in PP:SSM #310 was much better although Marcos Martin's amazing artwork helped elevate a pretty weak story from Slott in ASM #801 Overall, it's definitely P:SSM #310 for me although I am not sure how many people will ultimately vote for that story since that series seemed to have sold poorly, especially towards the end.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  4. #4

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    I think Zdarsky's take is more tragic and in keeping with Spider-Man, while 801 is kind of obviously manipulative...I mean "Uncle Ken" and so on. As always with Slott, it's unorginal. The whole idea of the countless lives Peter saved and how that counts and validates was done in Sacassia's "The Book of Peter" which was a great one-and-done finale to end a run in ''The Sensational Spider-Man''.

    Both are trying to go for the humanism of Stern's "The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man". The thing people forget about the story is how Timothy Harrison (which is the name of that kid but nobody remembers that) clarifies an essential part of Peter Parker. He's utterly lonely, and is looking for some kind of validation and love, but when it does come it always comes from the people whose validation hurts him more than it would if they hated him. Captain George Stacy on his death said that he knew Peter was Spider-Man, he was proud of him, and is happy to have him date Gwen...it's what Peter wanted from Uncle Ben, from a guy who is basically Uncle Ben II...and it completely f--ks him up. It ruined his relationship with Gwen, and made his life worse. In ''The Book of Peter'', The One Above All tells Peter in his darkest moment that he did good, but even that doesn't cut it or makes his life better.

    In ''The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man'', Timothy Harrison is a kid whose death Spider-Man is in no way responsible for. He would have died no matter what Peter did. And yet this kid loves Spider-Man, and Peter meets him and unburdens him and confesses about abandoning Uncle Ben and revealing his secret. The key line is this, when little Timothy (who isn't presented as a sentimental victim but a brave, honest, and likable kid):
    Timothy Harrison: "Geez, do ya have to be so hard on yourself? I know you messed up...but at least you've tried to make up for it."
    Spider-Man: "I'll be making up for it, for a long, long time."
    — The Amazing Spider-Man, Issue #248, dialogue by Roger Stern.
    Basically, Spider-Man gets love and understanding, and it just makes him feel worse. spoilers:
    So in Chip Zdarsky's story with this documentary, the story of that woman and child, that woman who considers Spider-Man brave, amazing and noble even if ultimately he couldn't do enough to help her kid. The fact is that he tried more than anyone did, and that she doesn't hold it against him...again makes things worse.
    end of spoilers

    That's basically the neglected truly tragic and heartbreaking side of "parker Luck" that easily gets sentimentalized and softened into self-pity. And Zdarsky touches on that more than Slott which is basically simple reader-stand-in projection and wish fulfillment and again it's unearned. He spent a long run showing Peter as a womanizer, as a capitalist, as a plagiarist and basically this psychotic jealous guy who punches Iron Man out of petty jealousy and starts a superhero-on-superhero fight for no damn reason...and then at the end of it, he has his cake and eats it too. Whereas Zdarsky has consistently focused on the human side of Peter until this.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    While they are both very similar and very different, each doing their own thing very well, I personally have to go for PPSSM 310 being the superior of the two.

    I feel that issue has everything, it's funny, sad, and heartwarming. I like that in context of the documentary it's not just constant praise or constant hate, there's about an equal amount of love, hate, love to hate, and hate to love from the subjects. The moment with the kid is both sweet and then incredibly heartbreaking, and it all still comes from a real place. And ultimately, Spider-Man is human and flawed, but no matter what, he still tries to do good, and keeps on trying, and that's someone worth looking up to, if not admiring, then respecting.

    801 is still very good too, with a nice message to it, showing how one minor act from Spider-Man can impact someone's entire life, and revealing to be one of the "Uncle Bens" he's always out to save. In comparison I think SSM is more appealing to me, just because it has more variety and substance to its theme.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  6. #6
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I think Zdarsky's take is more tragic and in keeping with Spider-Man, while 801 is kind of obviously manipulative...I mean "Uncle Ken" and so on. As always with Slott, it's unorginal. The whole idea of the countless lives Peter saved and how that counts and validates was done in Sacassia's "The Book of Peter" which was a great one-and-done finale to end a run in ''The Sensational Spider-Man''.

    Both are trying to go for the humanism of Stern's "The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man". The thing people forget about the story is how Timothy Harrison (which is the name of that kid but nobody remembers that) clarifies an essential part of Peter Parker. He's utterly lonely, and is looking for some kind of validation and love, but when it does come it always comes from the people whose validation hurts him more than it would if they hated him. Captain George Stacy on his death said that he knew Peter was Spider-Man, he was proud of him, and is happy to have him date Gwen...it's what Peter wanted from Uncle Ben, from a guy who is basically Uncle Ben II...and it completely f--ks him up. It ruined his relationship with Gwen, and made his life worse. In ''The Book of Peter'', The One Above All tells Peter in his darkest moment that he did good, but even that doesn't cut it or makes his life better.

    In ''The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man'', Timothy Harrison is a kid whose death Spider-Man is in no way responsible for. He would have died no matter what Peter did. And yet this kid loves Spider-Man, and Peter meets him and unburdens him and confesses about abandoning Uncle Ben and revealing his secret. The key line is this, when little Timothy (who isn't presented as a sentimental victim but a brave, honest, and likable kid):


    Basically, Spider-Man gets love and understanding, and it just makes him feel worse. spoilers:
    So in Chip Zdarsky's story with this documentary, the story of that woman and child, that woman who considers Spider-Man brave, amazing and noble even if ultimately he couldn't do enough to help her kid. The fact is that he tried more than anyone did, and that she doesn't hold it against him...again makes things worse.
    end of spoilers

    That's basically the neglected truly tragic and heartbreaking side of "parker Luck" that easily gets sentimentalized and softened into self-pity. And Zdarsky touches on that more than Slott which is basically simple reader-stand-in projection and wish fulfillment and again it's unearned. He spent a long run showing Peter as a womanizer, as a capitalist, as a plagiarist and basically this psychotic jealous guy who punches Iron Man out of petty jealousy and starts a superhero-on-superhero fight for no damn reason...and then at the end of it, he has his cake and eats it too. Whereas Zdarsky has consistently focused on the human side of Peter until this.
    While I read your essay: I actually have to agree. Peter under Slott was kind of a different character, and not in the growth way. Zdarsky understands Peter, and he understands the world he inhabits. And he had similar big time antics but ultimately came down to earth with Peter's personality and heroism that made him much more relatable than most.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    I enjoyed PP: SSM #310 more.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #8

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    I liked #801 whereas I love #310. #310 is perfect.

  9. #9
    Fantastic Member dishpan's Avatar
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    I'm the person who voted "other". I was really taken with the 2018 annual but I don't want to say why due to spoilers.


  10. #10
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    I liked #801 whereas I love #310. #310 is perfect.
    Pretty much.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    I liked #801 whereas I love #310. #310 is perfect.
    Exactly my feelings on the subject. I think I might have enjoyed #801 more if another villain was featured as the primary threat which led up to it. Don't get me wrong Red Goblin was cool in a way, but, at this point, I have Green Goblin/Norman Osborn fatigue lol.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  12. #12
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Exactly my feelings on the subject. I think I might have enjoyed #801 more if another villain was featured as the primary threat. Don't get me wrong Red Goblin was cool in a way, but, at this point, I have Green Goblin/Norman Osborn fatigue lol.
    ASM#801 doesn't have Norman in any shape or form, it's just Slott's "epilogue" about how special Spider-Man is for being a grounded level hero focusing on "small time" criminals.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    ASM#801 doesn't have Norman in any shape or form, it's just Slott's "epilogue" about how special Spider-Man is for being a grounded level hero focusing on "small time" criminals.
    Dude, I know that. Still, I think my feelings on the story are negatively colored by what it technically serves as the "epilogue" for. Plus I detest they killed off Flash during the storyline. I freely admit I'm prejudiced against the end of Slott's run for the reasons I have outlined.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Dude, I know that. Still, I think my feelings on the story are negatively colored by what it technically serves as the "epilogue" for. Plus I detest they killed off Flash during the storyline. I freely admit I'm prejudiced against the end of Slott's run for the reasons I have outlined.
    I agree with that. It felt a little off. Red Goblin was an entertaining and dumb hero v. villain fight as spectacle but it had nothing to say or do with any of the characters.

    But Zdarsky has the advantage of working on character-driven second series with B-Plots and low-stakes stories. So Slott is relatively disadvantaged there. He has to deliver big stories. To me as a story itself #801 is too sentimental and treacly. The art by Marcos Martin redeems it as it often did in Slott's earlier stories.

  15. #15

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    PP:SSM #310 was great, any other heroe would have abandoned the child or arrest him, but Peter stayed and help the child be better, even if he died, at least the mother is grateful to what Peter did, besides showing how Peter doesn't simply save lives or defeat villains, he helps people even throwing his own clothe to help other, always thinking in ways to help that every other heroe doesn't bother thinking about.

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