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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    I liked most of what Perez did. The fiasco with Diana debuting after both the JSA and the JLA formed was a decision made on DC editorial's part, not Perez's so as bad as it was, we can't hold that against Perez. As for what Perez can be held accountable for is aging Steve and Etta beyond Diana's generation, making Steve an unlikely romantic interest. I feel this was Perez's biggest flaw. Both Superman and Batman survived with their main love interests in tact(Lois Lane & Catwoman). Another thing that I didn't think was the best decision on Perez's part is having Diana get her blessing before the contest. I'm not sure how any other Amazon had a shot at winning the contest with Diana having Superman level abilities.

    What did Perez do well? Revamping her rogues gallery. Cheetah, Dr. Pshycho, and Silver Swan were amped up just like Diana. While he used characters from public domain, he gave characters like Ares, Circe, Deimos, Phobos, and Decay horror-inducing make-overs. I also like that he had Hermes befriend Diana. Their rap-our almost always made for good times.
    Currently/Soon Reading: Blue & Gold, Checkmate, Crime Syndicate, Green Lantern, Infinite Frontier, Justice League/Justice League Dark, Justice League Infinity, Nubia & the Amazons, & Wonder Woman.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why would Dc not want Diana to be a founder in the JL? I mean the last time Diana wasn't a founder was for JSA

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Why would Dc not want Diana to be a founder in the JL? I mean the last time Diana wasn't a founder was for JSA
    I think someone decided that it would be more interesting to explore Diana's character in the context of her being new in Man's World, just learning about its differences from the island where she grew up.

    And there's something to be said for that. After all, the movie gave us Diana in that circumstance. I would have had no objection to Perez writing a 12-issue Year One series about Diana's earliest experiences after leaving Themyscira. And then jumping ahead five years. (Which is what I think he wanted to do.)

    But if you're going to write the rest of the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths characters as if they've already been superheroes for years, the JLA is well underway, and Donna Troy has been part of the Teen Titans as Wonder Girl for a long time, you have to consider the effect of starting Wonder Woman "late" will have - both on Diana and her place in the DCU, and on the other characters. I don't think they thought it through, and then they had to deal with the resulting problems - which they did not do in a satisfying way (at least from my point of view).
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  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Wait was it hinted how old Diana was in Perez's run?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Wait was it hinted how old Diana was in Perez's run?
    I think she was in her 20s.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanT View Post
    I think ultimately he hindered Diana. Getting rid of Steve as her boyfriend, and a job as Diana Prince, made it easy for pretty much every writer afterward to jettison her location and supporting cast.
    This had happened at least twice prior to the reboot. Perez had the excuse of this being a new continuity.

    I think turning her into an Olympian champion with the blessings of 6 goddesses and gods made her like Shazam lite. We never really knew exactly what her mission was- to bring unity between the sexes? To promote the Olympians? To prevent the wrath of Ares? To be an ambassador for her nation and promote their ideals, which we never really heard about? Being a champion of love and wisdom against the forces of conflict is much easier concept to understand and execute.
    Being a champion of love and wisdom is not easy to understand or execute because love and wisdom are complicated concepts. The writers who did use that role just had her repeatedly talking about love without understanding what that actually meant.
    And yes we did hear about the ideals of the Amazons numerous times during Perez’s run.
    Shazam wasn’t blessed by gods just given powers of various mythological figures.

    Making her an ambassador was a mistake as well. We rarely ever saw her in that capacity. Plus, along with the personality Perez gave her- that of a humorless, fun-less, sexless adolescent, created the perception she was a distant, speechifying scold.
    As opposed to the objectified and naïve speechifying scold she was previously? At least Perez had Diana actually listening to and learning from people. If others saw her as just a scold they were seeing what they wanted to see.

    Getting rid of all the mythology surrounding the bracelets, as well as Amazon training, stripped her of what made her unique.
    As has been pointed out before, the writing of the bracelets before was outdated and sexist. It was a concept best left forgotten

    I think it was a great time to do a Wonder Woman revamp, seeing as how poorly her book was doing before Crisis, and having a superstar like Perez gave her the attention she deserved. I just think he threw out too much of what came before and unnecessarily complicated her mythos. That most of these things have eventually returned- Steve as love interest, Aphrodite as preeminent goddess, the "unleashed power" when her bracelets are removed, are all signs of what had been missing in the book over the years.
    There is nothing complicated about it. Also, how has Aphrodite been restored as preeminent goddess? Rebirth even has Diana not be aware of Aphrodite.

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Why would Dc not want Diana to be a founder in the JL? I mean the last time Diana wasn't a founder was for JSA
    I know she wasn't a founder but she was a prominent member of the JSA before Crisis. Granted at first, it was as their secretary(sigh....) but eventually she became a regular member fighting alongside them.
    Currently/Soon Reading: Blue & Gold, Checkmate, Crime Syndicate, Green Lantern, Infinite Frontier, Justice League/Justice League Dark, Justice League Infinity, Nubia & the Amazons, & Wonder Woman.

  8. #53
    Incredible Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This had happened at least twice prior to the reboot. Perez had the excuse of this being a new continuity.


    Being a champion of love and wisdom is not easy to understand or execute because love and wisdom are complicated concepts. The writers who did use that role just had her repeatedly talking about love without understanding what that actually meant.
    And yes we did hear about the ideals of the Amazons numerous times during Perez’s run.
    Shazam wasn’t blessed by gods just given powers of various mythological figures.


    As opposed to the objectified and naïve speechifying scold she was previously? At least Perez had Diana actually listening to and learning from people. If others saw her as just a scold they were seeing what they wanted to see.


    As has been pointed out before, the writing of the bracelets before was outdated and sexist. It was a concept best left forgotten


    There is nothing complicated about it. Also, how has Aphrodite been restored as preeminent goddess? Rebirth even has Diana not be aware of Aphrodite.
    Aphrodite was one of the Gods who visited her during Year one while she was in military incarceration , and who gave her "gifts" (her powers).... if you're talking about the current story arc, I think Aphrodite (and several other Gods) seem to be "reborn", so DIana may be unaware of their new form. Even the Goddess herself seems to question her role as the Goddess of Love, now that she is off Olympus....

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I know she wasn't a founder but she was a prominent member of the JSA before Crisis. Granted at first, it was as their secretary(sigh....) but eventually she became a regular member fighting alongside them.
    Also, when you consider the sad state of the Justice League in the immediate Post-Crisis era, the Slapstick Comedy League, it was just as well that WW was not a founder. When she did show up, she was just there to be the basis of sex jokes. Although I don't know for sure, I've heard that Perez preferred she had nothing to do with the JL the way it was being written at that time.
    Power with Girl is better.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post
    Aphrodite was one of the Gods who visited her during Year one while she was in military incarceration , and who gave her "gifts" (her powers).... if you're talking about the current story arc, I think Aphrodite (and several other Gods) seem to be "reborn", so DIana may be unaware of their new form. Even the Goddess herself seems to question her role as the Goddess of Love, now that she is off Olympus....
    Fair but I'm not seeing the prominence Aphrodite had been restored to. In Rebirth or the New 52.

  11. #56
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    The treatment of Aprhodite by Perez always bothered me. He practically made her a blonde bimbo and inferior to the other gods and goddesses. It's almost like they were deliberately trying to denegrate the main deity of the Marston run. In some ways, the Perez mythology was very well researched and in other ways it was totally out to lunch.
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  12. #57
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    He collapsed much of Wonder Woman's world into Greek mythology, creating a problem where the vast majority of her stories (and certainly the the centre of her most substantial ones) involve Hellenistic gods, creatures and characters. Not only has it led to a lot of lazy writing (Wonder Woman vs Medusa, vs the Titans), but it also affects her characterization as well, since she's shown to worship and praise/respect the gods. Marston's Wonder Woman wasn't religious, and when she did speak to gods (Diana, Venus) she did so as acquaintances.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The treatment of Aprhodite by Perez always bothered me. He practically made her a blonde bimbo and inferior to the other gods and goddesses. It's almost like they were deliberately trying to denegrate the main deity of the Marston run. In some ways, the Perez mythology was very well researched and in other ways it was totally out to lunch.
    Aphrodite being shallow was well researched. She's the mythology poster girl for blonde bimbos.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    He collapsed much of Wonder Woman's world into Greek mythology, creating a problem where the vast majority of her stories (and certainly the the centre of her most substantial ones) involve Hellenistic gods, creatures and characters. Not only has it led to a lot of lazy writing (Wonder Woman vs Medusa, vs the Titans), but it also affects her characterization as well, since she's shown to worship and praise/respect the gods. Marston's Wonder Woman wasn't religious, and when she did speak to gods (Diana, Venus) she did so as acquaintances.
    The lazy writing of other writers is not Perez's faul. He did more good than bad. Remember he complained that DC didn't care much about her. So he did what he could.

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Aphrodite being shallow was well researched. She's the mythology poster girl for blonde bimbos.
    Why? Because she had an affair with Ares? Because she competed with Athena and Hera for Eris' Golden Apple (and won!)? Or is it because, as the deity of love and pleasure, she's more sexually active than many other goddesses (but not necessarily many of the gods)? I don't see any of that adding up to shallow and dumb, and least compared to many of her fellow gods.
    Doctor Bifrost

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