Did George Perez help or hinder the WW mythos?..

[Lex Luthor]

It is weird how these are the exact same conversations that were being had the last time I logged in. Is the new writer not doing a good job either?

[Agent Z]

It is weird how these are the exact same conversations that were being had the last time I logged in. Is the new writer not doing a good job either?

This thread is about the George Perez run.

[Lex Luthor]

This thread is about the George Perez run.

I know but this discussion is something that I think this board has discussed many times before and I was curious what sparked it up again

[kjn]

Can we move on to Perez taking away the scientific achievements and inquisitive scientific minds of Diana and Amazons? Making them completely dependent on the mercy of Gods.

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure he took away Amazon achievements as much as he removed an unused or largely unbuilt element.

To start with, I think there is a basic problem in integrating mythical storytelling with a science fiction approach. As a long-term science fiction and fantasy reader, superhero comics read much more on the fantasy scale than they do the science fiction scale. The Amazons have marvellous devices, but they are just gadgets: they are never integral to the plot, we never see any theorising on how they work, they are not modified or developed in any way.

We are informed that the Amazons are technologically advanced, but even in the Marston comics we seldom or never see that they are. They were given the Magic Sphere by Athena; the invisible plane and the mental radio just appears, and so on.

Another aspect here is that the, as my friend and sf scholar John-Henri Holmberg once said in a speech, the science fiction genre is together with the mystery genre the most humanistic of literary genres, since they take humanity as their yardstick. Gods, goddesses, and theology are antithetical for them.

[Geraldofrivia]

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure he took away Amazon achievements as much as he removed an unused or largely unbuilt element.

To start with, I think there is a basic problem in integrating mythical storytelling with a science fiction approach. As a long-term science fiction and fantasy reader, superhero comics read much more on the fantasy scale than they do the science fiction scale. The Amazons have marvellous devices, but they are just gadgets: they are never integral to the plot, we never see any theorising on how they work, they are not modified or developed in any way.

We are informed that the Amazons are technologically advanced, but even in the Marston comics we seldom or never see that they are. They were given the Magic Sphere by Athena; the invisible plane and the mental radio just appears, and so on.

Another aspect here is that the, as my friend and sf scholar John-Henri Holmberg once said in a speech, the science fiction genre is together with the mystery genre the most humanistic of literary genres, since they take humanity as their yardstick. Gods, goddesses, and theology are antithetical for them.

Then he should have made it an integral part of their life not completely take away WW iconic invisible Jet, Purple ray and Scientific inventor mind of Diana.

In Marston comics, we see Diana working in Lab creating purple ray or investigating atom universe.

[Vordan]

What’s the point of the Invisible Jet when she can fly? The Purple Ray tech I’m fine with, I can see how that might be useful, but what’s the purpose of the Invisible Jet that doesn’t conceal the occupants as well?

[kjn]

Then he should have made it an integral part of their life not completely take away WW iconic invisible Jet, Purple ray and Scientific inventor mind of Diana.

In Marston comics, we see Diana working in Lab creating purple ray or investigating atom universe.

Of these, I'd say only the invisible jet could be called iconic. And none of the writers between Marston and Pérez did anything interesting with the technology or the science of the Amazons.

Was it possible to do so, and still keep the mystical side alive? Probably, but it would require extraordinary creativity and writing skills to mesh the sf and mythical parts together in a sensible manner. A lot more pages would be devoted to worldbuilding rather than adventures than was the case, meaning fewer stories. Pérez decided to really focus on the mythical content, and the result was some extraordinary stories. I can't fault him for making that decision.

With hindsight, one can see that Pérez's vision of the Amazons and Themyscira have become too dominant, and cast a shadow over the rest of the following writers, but I refuse to blame a writer for writing a too good a story.

[Geraldofrivia]

What’s the point of the Invisible Jet when she can fly? The Purple Ray tech I’m fine with, I can see how that might be useful, but what’s the purpose of the Invisible Jet that doesn’t conceal the occupants as well?

Well, make it conceal the occupants? Maybe she will use it when she travels with friends, go to space, used by other Amazons etc.

[AmiMizuno]

They are suppose to be invisible it's just for the reader to see. Also it's for her to get large crowds or items faster. There is nothing wrong with her having it. Not only that but it would be great for her invisible jet to turn into other things. Steve can also use the jet

[SiegePerilous02]

What’s the point of the Invisible Jet when she can fly? The Purple Ray tech I’m fine with, I can see how that might be useful, but what’s the purpose of the Invisible Jet that doesn’t conceal the occupants as well?

Modern artists can draw the plane and display its invisibility while keeping the occupants hidden effectively. See the Earth One version or in Alex Ross's Justice.

But the plane is the most prolific piece of technology they had, and you're right that with Perez deciding she should fly from the get go, she no longer has a need for it. So maybe that's why he decided to get rid of their tech altogether. This is precisely why I don't like Diana flying for the first few years of her adventures, I prefer it's something she gets later. So the plane has a purpose, and its existence would lead to the rest of their tech making sense.

The Purple ray is a bit of a pain despite how much I want it around, it seems to exist only as a plot device. Donna lampshades this in NTT when they bring Gar to the island after he's injured by Deathstroke. She says it fails as often as it works (translation: it's a plot device that works only when the plot demands). I just wish later writers didn't (possibly) have the thought process of taking the easy way out and getting rid of all these devices and instead find ways to incorporate them more regularly.

[Pinsir]

It is weird how these are the exact same conversations that were being had the last time I logged in. Is the new writer not doing a good job either?

It's really a continuation of a lot of themes and material we've seen before. If you want the Amazons to be technologically advanced, her world to be less myth focused, a return to classic Wonder Woman rogues...you might as well just copy and paste your previous posts when the topic comes up.

[Agent Z]

Then he should have made it an integral part of their life not completely take away WW iconic invisible Jet, Purple ray and Scientific inventor mind of Diana.

In Marston comics, we see Diana working in Lab creating purple ray or investigating atom universe.

If it wasn't an integral part of their life, then what purpose was there in keeping it?

[Geraldofrivia]

If it wasn't an integral part of their life, then what purpose was there in keeping it?

They can easily integrate it into DC universe. Imagine Justice League using Amazon stealth tech in their Jets. Or have Amazon tech like purple ray in Justice League medical section to treat the injured heroes.

There are so many ways to integrate Amazon footprint into the DC Universe instead everything belonging Wayne Corp.

[Agent Z]

They can easily integrate it into DC universe. Imagine Justice League using Amazon stealth tech in their Jets. Or have Amazon tech like purple ray in Justice League medical section to treat the injured heroes.

There are so many ways to integrate Amazon footprint into the DC Universe instead everything belonging Wayne Corp.

This just feels like a whole lot of trouble dedicated to something that had no real purpose in the WW books at the time.

Also, Perez wasn't writing the Justice League books, so even if he did use the jet and the purple ray, he wouldn't have had any say on them being used in Justice League comics or anywhere else.

[phonogram12]

Modern artists can draw the plane and display its invisibility while keeping the occupants hidden effectively. See the Earth One version or in Alex Ross's Justice.

Alex Ross does this especially well in Spirit of Truth:

The Purple ray is a bit of a pain despite how much I want it around, it seems to exist only as a plot device. Donna lampshades this in NTT when they bring Gar to the island after he's injured by Deathstroke. She says it fails as often as it works (translation: it's a plot device that works only when the plot demands). I just wish later writers didn't (possibly) have the thought process of taking the easy way out and getting rid of all these devices and instead find ways to incorporate them more regularly.

This is generally what I hate most about how magic is used in superhero comics. I hate to say it, but I've noticed this happening more in WW comics than in most others.

"ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE...until it isn't."

I find this incredibly irritating, personally, and just completely takes me out of the story.