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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Bingo, this is the crux of the whole problem with Steve. He is viewed by many rightly or wrongly as a non-entity due to his paper-thin portrayal. Other than being Wondy's default love interest and a military guy what has he got going for him? His interests, hopes, dreams, fears, and background are hardly ever mentioned. He is essentially a male damsel. He exists to motivate the hero and help move the hero's story along. Steve is by far the least developed of the golden age DC love interests. Take Lois and Selina, for example, as counterpoints to Steve unlike him both have clear agency outside of their romantic partner.
    Agreed, which is also why I've been pushing for moving Steve out of the military for some time now.

    Perhaps the most important issue with Steve is the lack of stories surrounding him. The movie gave him a compelling one, and meeting Diana should easily give room for another one that doesn't kill him: Steve deciding the military isn't for him anymore.

    Now, I think there is room for a male damsel in distress, but right now Steve is not that good a one. His relation to Diana pushes him in that direction, but the way that he is a dude and badass soldier to boot means that what is subversive for a princess (being self-rescuing) isn't for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    In marston’s he is well flesh out also. When he isn’t helping the military. He helps his sister and his niece with sports. Goes to movies, Cooks and other things. Why does he join the military. Favorite music.
    There are really two ways of fleshing out characters. One is to add details to them, like the above. The other is to give them texture and personality. We were told exceedingly little about movie Steve, but he had plenty of personality. With Rucka's Steve, all we got was some vague undefined longing for something, which was filled by Diana—and then nothing.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One what is the reason for him to leave the military. One of the issues with me is . We never see any of his family. We don’t know anything about his relationships
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Bingo, this is the crux of the whole problem with Steve. He is viewed by many rightly or wrongly as a non-entity due to his paper-thin portrayal. Other than being Wondy's default love interest and a military guy what has he got going for him? His interests, hopes, dreams, fears, and background are hardly ever mentioned. He is essentially a male damsel. He exists to motivate the hero and help move the hero's story along. Steve is by far the least developed of the golden age DC love interests. Take Lois and Selina, for example, as counterpoints to Steve unlike him both have clear agency outside of their romantic partner.
    The crux of the problem is that unlike Lois and Selina, who had the advantage of being fleshed out Post-Crisis (because let’s be real here Pre-Crisis stories weren’t all that nuanced in terms of writing or characterization), George Perez decided WW being in a relationship with a man made her unfeminist and wanted to focus her stories more on adventure and fantasy (as if the two were mutually exclusive). The 25 years where he wasn’t her love interest because he was old really hurt their legitimacy as a couple, but you also have to admit that even now that he has been restored as her boyfriend, most writers still refuse to take him seriously. It’s frustrating.

    This is the part where I sound like one of Those People, but I truly blame the double standards regarding female characters for this. Superman is able to have adventure AND romance, Batman cycled through god knows how many women (some of them portrayed as more of a sexy lamp than others), and their strength and integrity are never compromised. WW gets what is basically a male version of Lois Lane and suddenly everyone’s hackles are raised and they demand her be shipped off to either Supes or Bats so she could play second fiddle to them/make their main love interests jealous by being „the other woman” in the triangle.

    What’s worse any and all attempts to give her a love interest Post-Crisis did not stick, as if writers were afraid of portraying her as anything but a sexless figure. I’m a Diana/Steve fan, but I would’ve been okay with her dating any supporting character from her own cast. Alas, as it has now become a time-honored WW tradition to rotate her cast every time a new writer came on board, as it stands Steve Trevor is still her most prominent and enduring love interest, so I’m still gonna go with him.
    Last edited by TheAnn; 09-11-2019 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    And yet outside the comics she generally can have both. And generally is with Steve. If you were written Steve and Diana how would you do it ? One thing I notice is how well Dc can have people wrote him well. Steve in the animated movie. Steve in the tv show and elsewhere stories
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 09-11-2019 at 05:45 PM.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    And yet outside the comics she generally can have both. And generally is with Steve. If you were written Steve and Diana how would you do it ? One thing I notice is how well Dc can have people wrote him well. Steve in the animated movie. Steve in the tv show and elsewhere stories
    I've already written at length about my ideal characterization of Steve Trevor here: https://wondertrevor.tumblr.com/post...und-so-much-in

    Give it a read if you're interested. It is pretty long, I will admit. Apparently I have lots of feelings about a side character that most people either hate and/or don't care about lol.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnn View Post
    I've already written at length about my ideal characterization of Steve Trevor here: https://wondertrevor.tumblr.com/post...und-so-much-in

    Give it a read if you're interested. It is pretty long, I will admit. Apparently I have lots of feelings about a side character that most people either hate and/or don't care about lol.
    Will do. One thing I wouldn't mind if he did get training from Diana.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Will do. One thing I wouldn't mind if he did get training from Diana.
    I guess that would be interesting to see, but I don't mind Steve's abilities as they are. It's not how good in a fight he is that makes him a good character, it's his morality compass.

    I'm open to see some friendly sparring between them as a way to show them bonding as a couple, but I don't see how that would work given the sheer difference in physical strength between them. And I'm not a fan of Diana training Steve, I would rather she save that for one of her female proteges.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One thing that I often wondered if this. Steve is the first Guy Diana met. Both Bruce and Clark have been shown to date others before marrying or dating the main ladies of their comics. But what about Diana? I don't want it to be oh she feel in love with him but it's also the first man she is seen.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    One thing that I often wondered if this. Steve is the first Guy Diana met. Both Bruce and Clark have been shown to date others before marrying or dating the main ladies of their comics. But what about Diana? I don't want it to be oh she feel in love with him but it's also the first man she is seen.
    According to Rucka she had a girlfriend on Themiscyra.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/wh...firms-comic-b/

    Later in the run Diana confirms it and names her gf.
    Last edited by brettc1; Yesterday at 06:56 AM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

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  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Okay. But the issue here is the first man she meets is the man she falls in love with the first man she sees?
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