Superman and Wonder Woman Appreciation 2019

[Last Son of Krypton]

I understand your concern and I say that, for our peace of mind, DC should be away from SM and WW as a couple... in Miller I still trust but in others.... Nops

I don't trust anyone till I'll read the final product. 🤨

Nothing but facts and that’s so unfortunate.


Superman and Wonder Woman’s “otherness” is a burden for the writers because they don’t try to understand fully if at all. So it’s easy to write Kal and Diana as changing to conform to their ways they accept and understand more while making it seem like who they truly are is bad. It’s disrespectful really.

Not for all the writers. Their "otherness" is often adressed in one way or another.

I believe it’s not, not trusting the character, it’s not trust their own creativeness which they are very lazy to actually put effort in.

Well, the unexpected success of Aquaman and Wonder Wonder already proved them wrong.

Dc wants this diverse audience but yet doesn’t utilize the very concept that can reach this audience. LOL smh

At least, they tried for a bit.

[Deiasilva10]

I don't trust anyone till I'll read the final product. ��

Ahhh my friend, I am talking about "Golden Child".

"My romance doesn't have to have a moon in the sky
My romance doesn't need a blue lagoon standing by
No month of may, no twinkling stars
No hide away, no softly guitars..."



https://www.instagram.com/p/BvEGb5_B...on_share_sheet

“Because no matter how small an act of kindness or generosity or simple positivity you put out into the world, it will make a difference.”
—Wonder Woman





https://www.instagram.com/p/BvFaz0OH...on_share_sheet

[LoveStar]

Not for all the writers. Their "otherness" is often adressed in one way or another.

Sure... but it doesn’t truly stand out as it should and also, it’s back tracked to the “otherness”

Well, the unexpected success of Aquaman and Wonder Wonder already proved them wrong.

But still no respect for them at all 🙄

At least, they tried for a bit.

LOL that’s the problem. Instead of embracing it fully. They did just a bit, that bit was a success but couldn’t handle the pressure of continuing.

[LadyP]

I understand your concern and I say that, for our peace of mind, DC should be away from SM and WW as a couple... in Miller I still trust but in others.... Nops

You have more trust than I do because I'm choosing to wait and see before passing judgement.

Nothing but facts and that’s so unfortunate.


Superman and Wonder Woman’s “otherness” is a burden for the writers because they don’t try to understand fully if at all. So it’s easy to write Kal and Diana as changing to conform to their ways they accept and understand more while making it seem like who they truly are is bad. It’s disrespectful really.

I don't know what to call it but what I know is that I'm sick and tired of the narrative of their "otherness" being something that gets undermined or a negative slant gets put on it if they are together.

Apparently, some chemical reaction occurs when SMWW are together that causes them to turn into evil dictators while distancing them from humanity despite Diana and Clark having been raised by humans (the Amazons are human after all, just immortal ones), and have had humane values instilled in them. 🤷🏾*♀️
It's obnoxious and gross to premise that kind of narrative just to push status quo.

DC has a chance to tell powerful compelling narratives but that gets subverted for the cloying and mawkish. It has a chance to show and tell the stories of two of its greatest immigrants. To show that one can adapt without having to assimilate. That one can be valued without having to deny an intrinsic part of oneself. However, that's not the story they are interested in telling.

[LoveStar]

I don't know what to call it but what I know is that I'm sick and tired of the narrative of their "otherness" being something that gets undermined or a negative slant gets put on it if they are together.

Apparently, some chemical reaction occurs when SMWW are together that causes them to turn into evil dictators while distancing them from humanity despite Diana and Clark having been raised by humans (the Amazons are human after all, just immortal ones), and have had humane values instilled in them. 🤷🏾*♀️
It's obnoxious and gross to premise that kind of narrative just to push status quo.

DC has a chance to tell powerful compelling narratives but that gets subverted for the cloying and mawkish. It has a chance to show and tell the stories of two of its greatest immigrants. To show that one can adapt without having to assimilate. That one can be valued without having to deny an intrinsic part of oneself. However, that's not the story they are interested in telling.

Yeah this contradictory contrived narrative has been debunked even by DC themselves countless of times. Throwing your most inspirational characters under the bus for some narrow minded view. 🤨Some details are revised or forgotten purposely. For all this human grounding, being saddled/stagnate with a certain status quo though, why is it that Superman and Wonder Woman still having a hard time connecting? Why are they still losing relevance?

“Although some wondered if the bond between these two godlike beings might create a distance between them and the humanity they have sworn to protect, it instead have both Wonder Woman and Superman something to which they could anchor themselves. They were two EQUALS who could UNITE to protect the world AS A COUPLE”

Bold: The “Men of Steel, Women of Wonder” expo delves into this. This is obviously something of interest. Superman and Wonder Woman isn’t just about something physical. It’s about challenging views, intellectual and emotional challenge of the Ultimate man and woman, pushing boundaries. How exactly can that be conveyed with limiting them?

[Deiasilva10]

*cof* *cof* *cof* Last Son...

"Kinky reporters at the daily planet ����"



I think Clark should see Gerald's Game! KKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvHYcuLB...on_share_sheet

"Drew this for my mom (wonder woman) and my dad (superman)"



https://twitter.com/Muskydragon/stat...17927251947520



https://www.instagram.com/p/BvC1oz2F...on_share_sheet

[LadyP]

Yeah this contradictory contrived narrative has been debunked even by DC themselves countless of times. Throwing your most inspirational characters under the bus for some narrow minded view. 🤨Some details however, are revised are forgotten purposely. For all this human grounding, being saddled/stagnate with a certain status quo though, why is it that Superman and Wonder Woman still having a hard time connecting? Why are they still losing relevance?

“Although some wondered if the bond between these two godlike beings might create a distance between them and the humanity they have sworn to protect, it instead have both Wonder Woman and Superman something to which they could anchor themselves. They were two EQUALS who could UNITE to protect the world AS A COUPLE”

Bold: The “Men of Steel, Women of Wonder” expo delves into this. This is obviously something of interest. Superman and Wonder Woman isn’t just about something physical. It’s about challenges views, intellectual and emotional challenge of the Ultimate man and woman, pushing boundaries. How is exactly can that be conveyed with limiting them?

The bolded quote from the Ultimate guide (correct?) and then the last part of your comment. The appeal with these two for me has been/was the emotional, intellectual/philosophical aspects of their interactions and conversations preflashpoint. Their philosophical debates weren't just about disagreements but actual thought provoking discussions that pushed both on a pov. The connection of not just belonging to any one place and seeing it a responsibility to always protect and preserve was moving. Like you said. It wasn't just physical. They aligned in so many meaningful ways, and the qualities about them is what resonated and continues to resonate with those who haven't forgotten that they were once more than what they may appear presently. The Men of Steel, Women of Wonder exhibit/expo is a clear example of the attributes/qualities that speak to people as it regards SMWW. The SMWW quotes, couples tee, themed weddings, etc all tell a different story than what is presently pushed.

[LadyP]

*cof* *cof* *cof* Last Son...

"Kinky reporters at the daily planet ����"



I think Clark should see Gerald's Game! KKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvHYcuLB...on_share_sheet

:::smirks:::
Well we do know that bondage is a part of her history...he's only acknowledging that ��

"Drew this for my mom (wonder woman) and my dad (superman)"



https://twitter.com/Muskydragon/stat...17927251947520

Sweet.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvC1oz2F...on_share_sheet

I never get tired of seeing this image. There is a sweetness and tenderness to it that is just heartwarming. ��

[LoveStar]

*cof* *cof* *cof* Last Son...

"Kinky reporters at the daily planet ����"



I think Clark should see Gerald's Game! KKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvHYcuLB...on_share_sheet

🤣 The lasso is definitely their thing!
Nah, nah, not Gerald’s Games...Definitely not that. But I know of a few songs that may be more appropriate 😜

"Drew this for my mom (wonder woman) and my dad (superman)"



https://twitter.com/Muskydragon/stat...17927251947520

Awe! SMWW inspiring more WonderMom and SuperDad Love! As well as new52 love! ❤️

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvC1oz2F...on_share_sheet

Seriously..Mike Deodato needs to know how popular this piece is.

The bolded quote from the Ultimate guide (correct?) and then the last part of your comment. The appeal with these two for me has been/was the emotional, intellectual/philosophical aspects of their interactions and conversations preflashpoint. Their philosophical debates weren't just about disagreements but actual thought provoking discussions that pushed both on a pov. The connection of not just belonging to any one place and seeing it a responsibility to always protect and preserve was moving. Like you said. It wasn't just physical. They aligned in so many meaningful ways, and the qualities about them is what resonated and continues to resonate with those who haven't forgotten that they were once more than what they may appear presently. The Men of Steel, Women of Wonder exhibit/expo is a clear example of the attributes/qualities that speak to people as it regards SMWW. The SMWW quotes, couples tee, themed weddings, etc all tell a different story than what is presently pushed.

Yep! The ultimate guide.

Exactly! I didn’t watch it, so I can’t exactly speak too much on it but the fact that Marvel jumped to an Ant-Man and Wasp movie, I don’t think it had this kind of representation. An SMWW movie that does just this, is very much needed in this modern day. It’s a game changer in so many ways. SMWW has been a dynamic that’s been ahead of it time, natural trendsetter and resonating with the diverse audience that may or may not read comics, may or may not have watched the movies. They know of the characters, but might not know all of their history. However, their dynamic has naturally been able to connect because of its “realness” and the expectations of truly diving deep within the characters and bringing every part of them together not just putting one “side” over the other.

[hellacre]

Justice League Action Wonder Woman Top 10 Moments!



Number 1 is Diana saving Kal and Luther from the black hole. Loved Kal saying they need a “miracle” and “there she is now” reffering to Diana. ��

This show was great and fun. Diana was respected, a powerhouse as she should be, was fierce, and had the spirit of new52 Diana. Her relationship with Kal was as it should be, nice balance of bestiebae vibes

Ah one of the best, most powerful and lovable Wonder Woman we have had. She is awesome. That was a cool top ten and one worthy of a true power house.

All I can say at THIS point is that I’m taking a “wait and see” position. I can agree with you on the whole nostalgia thing.

The nostalgia is up to absurd levels now whereby they think you can progress characters superficially yet have them still stuck in a bygone era. I am not sure if Rebirth Superman is still stuck in the 70ties or was born in the 70ties with a sensibility that is so conservative that he does not , at least to me, represent a conscious view of the world today. I don't read hero who has unconditional love for his adopted home and who is dedicated to fighting for ALL of us so much as a dude with powers concerned about his own comfort. Wonder Woman too has gone backwards. Back to precrisis. Not a good look for her either.

But why? One would think if others are such “classics” wouldn’t they not only be marketable but even more marketable than SMWW? The excuse is that they are of different franchises, so being in the same franchise and “traditional” should be an advantage.

Merchants KNOW who sell. They are not stupid like DC are to cut their own noses to spite their faces.

The bolded.
That's actually troubling to me. Because unless Alex Ross is at the helm of it, I don't want anybody currently part of this Rebirth creative team touching KC even with a ten feet pole.
I'm just utterly disgusted with Rebirth and the continued disrespect to Diana. Superman to me is just a lost cause.

The problematic narrative DC has continued to push has me turned off just about completely from them. With regards to Superman, having him denying Kal-El while acting as if Clark Kent is all he really is, is offensive to me. It hits too close to western xenophobic ideology of hating/being fearful of "the other." In this case, as long as Clark continues to pass as a white western male, attached to a white western female he is acceptable per DC's pov.

For Diana, her "otherness" is only acceptable when she is with the white 'All American' male (per white nationalist: blond and blue-eyed) that is Steve Trevor. Who to add to his list of acceptability is in the military, and is there to be Diana's guide since evidently, according to DC, she is unable to do much without his guidance.

For my peace of mind, I would rather DC stays far away from KC until they have a mindset shift. Because the one they currently have is problematic and tone deaf.
They seem to have completely lost the essence of who Superman and Wonder Woman are. They have forgotten these are supposed to be inspirational characters who had and are suppose to have depth to them. Their "otherness" plays a big part in who they are. It is a compelling aspect of them.

Great to have you back, Lady P, and agreed on all fronts. Many of us who connect to smww are from that "other" box and I personally find it offensive what DC try to say about Kal and Diana. Like I say if the DCU was a reflection of the world...it surely means it is full of xenophobic subtext. To suggest a good man and woman...I don't give a damn where they came from or grew up. Like all beings, I assume they all have the same needs, desires and fears as all. Culture or DNA is what DC attacks when they suggest the earth is doomed if they fall in love and need only humans to make them stay good, grounded or moral. I always found SM and WW two positive role models. I never in all my life thought they could not be good or not care for us and it was premised only on them being with their classic love interests. In fact who they dated never was a factor. If the characters decided never to date or marry...it never should even be an issue that they could not stay heroic. Now all of a sudden DC is rigidly pushing a narrative I find ridiculous and frankly demeaning to the two iconic characters. When I started with the Superfriends and played on the playground with my friends and all the girls wanted to be WW and the little boys was SM...no one would have the effrontery or be stupid enough to bring in their love interests to lecture us. It did not matter. The characters were always whole and solid until DC decided they needed to be grounded by certain factors that seem to try to demonize the outsider aspect and needed to be sanitized by traditional , conservative troupes . For any writer to suggest they were or are broken if they cannot be with certain supporting characters (who frankly does not even need to be around every moment or every day for these two to do their thing) ...it is imo damaging to the properties to reduce their motivations around one person etc. No one would ever turn around and say Batman is broken without Catwoman because they believe Batman is a hero no matter what and is incorruptible. No wonder he is number one. It has nothing to do with who he sleeps with. SM & WW are supposed to be better than we are by example and heroes lives often are tested to a degree that they earn the title hero...else again...they just a man or woman with powers who really do not understand nor willing to truly sacrifice to a higher calling. I expect that level of honor, courage and selflessness in my SM and my WW.

[Deiasilva10]

"Look what an incredible family �� waiting for little Samuel ��"







https://www.instagram.com/p/BvHLCIll...on_share_sheet

[hellacre]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvFaz0OH...on_share_sheet

These pillows!!!! Ah I love them. People are so creative!!! But then Last Son is right...SM and WW conceptually are perfect for this. Mother/ Father. Man/Woman. Husband/Wife. Boyfriend/Girlfriend. His and Hers. Their ionic status drives it. Plus their aesthetics and symbols are coincidentally in such harmony.

Yeah this contradictory contrived narrative has been debunked even by DC themselves countless of times. Throwing your most inspirational characters under the bus for some narrow minded view. ��Some details are revised or forgotten purposely. For all this human grounding, being saddled/stagnate with a certain status quo though, why is it that Superman and Wonder Woman still having a hard time connecting? Why are they still losing relevance?

“Although some wondered if the bond between these two godlike beings might create a distance between them and the humanity they have sworn to protect, it instead have both Wonder Woman and Superman something to which they could anchor themselves. They were two EQUALS who could UNITE to protect the world AS A COUPLE”

Bold: The “Men of Steel, Women of Wonder” expo delves into this. This is obviously something of interest. Superman and Wonder Woman isn’t just about something physical. It’s about challenging views, intellectual and emotional challenge of the Ultimate man and woman, pushing boundaries. How exactly can that be conveyed with limiting them?

It is baffling to me they are trying to suggest SMWW in current comics never happened but for the wide public stating well...yeah they did and was true love. Maybe they know is a shrinking readership but aware of the the general public and do not want to truly alienate them ...so they keep it there???




Loving the family and cosplay pics as always.

[LoveStar]

Ah one of the best, most powerful and lovable Wonder Woman we have had. She is awesome. That was a cool top ten and one worthy of a true power house.

Yep yep! She wasn’t reduced, she showed confidence, took control and lead the boys as they were her side kicks 🤣

The nostalgia is up to absurd levels now whereby they think you can progress characters superficially yet have them still stuck in a bygone era. I am not sure if Rebirth Superman is still stuck in the 70ties or was born in the 70ties with a sensibility that is so conservative that he does not , at least to me, represent a conscious view of the world today. I don't read hero who has unconditional love for his adopted home and who is dedicated to fighting for ALL of us so much as a dude with powers concerned about his own comfort. Wonder Woman too has gone backwards. Back to precrisis. Not a good look for her either.

LOL at the bold but I believe even Chris Reeve has an interview in which he was tired of the way Superman was being presented. Maybe it was interesting at first, but the doofus like, “I’m just a small town simpleton” thing isn’t appealing to the modern view. “The Man of Tomorrow” is “The Man of YesterYears” not a good thing.

Only being concerned about his own comfort totally goes against who he is suppose to be: “the champion of the oppressed”. Saving kittens out of trees from time to time, ain’t it.

Wonder Woman...🙄 I don’t know who thought whatever she is now was some type of female empowerment. No, it’s putting a woman in “her place” for the men not to feel intimidated.

Merchants KNOW who sell. They are not stupid like DC are to cut their own noses to spite their faces.

The expectation(s) are clearly very low. But even those expectations aren’t even being met it seems.

Great to have you back, Lady P, and agreed on all fronts. Many of us who connect to smww are from that "other" box and I personally find it offensive what DC try to say about Kal and Diana. Like I say if the DCU was a reflection of the world...it surely means it is full of xenophobic subtext. To suggest a good man and woman...I don't give a damn where they came from or grew up. Like all beings, I assume they all have the same needs, desires and fears as all. Culture or DNA is what DC attacks when they suggest the earth is doomed if they fall in love and need only humans to make them stay good, grounded or moral. I always found SM and WW two positive role models. I never in all my life thought they could not be good or not care for us and it was premised only on them being with their classic love interests. In fact who they dated never was a factor. If the characters decided never to date or marry...it never should even be an issue that they could not stay heroic. Now all of a sudden DC is rigidly pushing a narrative I find ridiculous and frankly demeaning to the two iconic characters. When I started with the Superfriends and played on the playground with my friends and all the girls wanted to be WW and the little boys was SM...no one would have the effrontery or be stupid enough to bring in their love interests to lecture us. It did not matter. The characters were always whole and solid until DC decided they needed to be grounded by certain factors that seem to try to demonize the outsider aspect and needed to be sanitized by traditional , conservative troupes . For any writer to suggest they were or are broken if they cannot be with certain supporting characters (who frankly does not even need to be around every moment or every day for these two to do their thing) ...it is imo damaging to the properties to reduce their motivations around one person etc. No one would ever turn around and say Batman is broken without Catwoman because they believe Batman is a hero no matter what and is incorruptible. No wonder he is number one. It has nothing to do with who he sleeps with. SM & WW are supposed to be better than we are by example and heroes lives often are tested to a degree that they earn the title hero...else again...they just a man or woman with powers who really do not understand nor willing to truly sacrifice to a higher calling. I expect that level of honor, courage and selflessness in my SM and my WW.

Whew!!!!!!!! A read...

Wonder Woman is the answer, counterpart, and challenge to Superman, representing feminine values of kindness and compassion, without being perceived as weak. This is why the partnership between the two has so much more depth. The romance comes from evolving development, it’s not by default.
Clark and Diana made their choices on their own to make a difference, to help the oppressed and bring peace to the world long before any love interests.
The “they are too different or too similar argument” invalidates itself. Superman and Woman Woman’s upbringings were different yet they still share the same goals and values. In reality, that happens and couples find that balance between to make their relationship stronger and work for the better.

[LadyP]

Ah one of the best, most powerful and lovable Wonder Woman we have had. She is awesome. That was a cool top ten and one worthy of a true power house.



The nostalgia is up to absurd levels now whereby they think you can progress characters superficially yet have them still stuck in a bygone era. I am not sure if Rebirth Superman is still stuck in the 70ties or was born in the 70ties with a sensibility that is so conservative that he does not , at least to me, represent a conscious view of the world today. I don't read hero who has unconditional love for his adopted home and who is dedicated to fighting for ALL of us so much as a dude with powers concerned about his own comfort. Wonder Woman too has gone backwards. Back to precrisis. Not a good look for her either.

If I'm not mistaken it seems that it's what DC is trying to do. Take the characters back to the Golden Age era. At least that's the impression I'm getting from the glimpses of what I've seen and heard about Doomsday Clock. So yes, I would agree that the team currently present appear to be actively working from a nostalgia pov. I'm just beyond baffled by that.

Great to have you back, Lady P, and agreed on all fronts. Many of us who connect to smww are from that "other" box and I personally find it offensive what DC try to say about Kal and Diana. Like I say if the DCU was a reflection of the world...it surely means it is full of xenophobic subtext. To suggest a good man and woman...I don't give a damn where they came from or grew up. Like all beings, I assume they all have the same needs, desires and fears as all. Culture or DNA is what DC attacks when they suggest the earth is doomed if they fall in love and need only humans to make them stay good, grounded or moral. I always found SM and WW two positive role models. I never in all my life thought they could not be good or not care for us and it was premised only on them being with their classic love interests. In fact who they dated never was a factor. If the characters decided never to date or marry...it never should even be an issue that they could not stay heroic. Now all of a sudden DC is rigidly pushing a narrative I find ridiculous and frankly demeaning to the two iconic characters. When I started with the Superfriends and played on the playground with my friends and all the girls wanted to be WW and the little boys was SM...no one would have the effrontery or be stupid enough to bring in their love interests to lecture us. It did not matter. The characters were always whole and solid until DC decided they needed to be grounded by certain factors that seem to try to demonize the outsider aspect and needed to be sanitized by traditional , conservative troupes . For any writer to suggest they were or are broken if they cannot be with certain supporting characters (who frankly does not even need to be around every moment or every day for these two to do their thing) ...it is imo damaging to the properties to reduce their motivations around one person etc. No one would ever turn around and say Batman is broken without Catwoman because they believe Batman is a hero no matter what and is incorruptible. No wonder he is number one. It has nothing to do with who he sleeps with. SM & WW are supposed to be better than we are by example and heroes lives often are tested to a degree that they earn the title hero...else again...they just a man or woman with powers who really do not understand nor willing to truly sacrifice to a higher calling. I expect that level of honor, courage and selflessness in my SM and my WW.

Thank you Hellacre. You may precede to take a bow.

You said that much nicer and succinctly than I while hitting on all the points of why the narrative DC is pushing is problematic.
The bolder parts especially. 👌🏾

[LadyP]

Yep yep! She wasn’t reduced, she showed confidence, took control and lead the boys as they were her side kicks 🤣



LOL at the bold but I believe even Chris Reeve has an interview in which he was tired of the way Superman was being presented. Maybe it was interesting at first, but the doofus like, “I’m just a small town simpleton” thing isn’t appealing to the modern view. “The Man of Tomorrow” is “The Man of YesterYears” not a good thing.

Only being concerned about his own comfort totally goes against who he is suppose to be: “the champion of the oppressed”. Saving kittens out of trees from time to time, ain’t it.

Wonder Woman...🙄 I don’t know who thought whatever she is now was some type of female empowerment. No, it’s putting a woman in “her place” for the men not to feel intimidated.




The expectation(s) are clearly very low. But even those expectations aren’t even being met it seems.



Whew!!!!!!!! A read...

Wonder Woman is the answer, counterpart, and challenge to Superman, representing feminine values of kindness and compassion, without being perceived as weak. This is why the partnership between the two has so much more depth. The romance comes from evolving development, it’s not by default.
Clark and Diana made their choices on their own to make a difference, to help the oppressed and bring peace to the world long before any love interests.
The “they are too different or too similar argument” invalidates itself. Superman and Woman Woman’s upbringings were different yet they still share the same goals and values. In reality, that happens and couples find that balance between to make their relationship stronger and work for the better.

Everything bolded!
Now I'm saying whew! But because it's absolutely crazy to me that we have to point these things out. In 2019. How insane and absurd is that? From a company who is responsible for the mother and father of superheroes?? How blinkered must one be to completely ignore and undermine the value of their property to reckless and negative rhetorics that do not help or progress the characters? 😳