Superman and Wonder Woman Appreciation 2019

[Deiasilva10]

What a powerful and true force is SMWW! Marking the skin with the name or some symbol that means being loved is not something new, tattoos accompany mankind from the beginning but mark with the SMWW symbols as a description of true and eternal love (at least as long as your skin is here ) is something magnificent!

"Let's celebrate love, ideas for couples ❤️💕"







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"Hide your heart from sight,
Lock your dreams at night,
It could happen to you.
Don't count stars
Or you might stumble,
Someone drops a sigh
And down you tumble,
Keep an eye on spring,
Run when church bells ring.
It could happen to you
All i did was wonder
How your arms would be
And it happened to me..."

[LoveStar]

That's how they were originally. Maybe DC should turn into a trio also Barry/Hal/Ollie and see what happen. 😅 Btw, the sad thing is that the Trinity concept originated from KC but there's nothing left that resemble that dynamic in the current depiction of it.

That’s the problem. Trying to change how it was originally. Trying to make it more than what it is hasn’t worked. Not only that, but Diana isn’t getting the respect she deserves anyway. It’s a branding thing without substance.

Azzarello's Gods could've being kept instead of being replaced by "Disney animals" that are already being ignored anyway.

Exactly. All that pettiness for most of the stuff to be ignored. But Diana’s character has suffered tremendously because of this.

This fan-fiction-y 'shipper nonsense is my main issue with Rucka's work on WW. It's just silly. He even had other writers involved in his 'ship thing and one ended up in a shitstorm in his place. 🤣 You know who I'm referring to. 😅 Don't mess with SM/WW for that.

Diana being used as a mouth piece even by writers who claim to love and respect her? I don’t know what kind of love and respect that is.


Heh... yeah, I know. SMWW had no reason to be apart of nor brought up with that messiness but really tried it trying to yet again drag the pair down for what he thought would be received better.

I believe it's also possible to find a middle-ground of their different depictions.

It is, but you still have creators and fans who don’t want to even look at that 😅

What a powerful and true force is SMWW! Marking the skin with the name or some symbol that means being loved is not something new, tattoos accompany mankind from the beginning but mark with the SMWW symbols as a description of true and eternal love (at least as long as your skin is here ) is something magnificent!

"Let's celebrate love, ideas for couples ❤️💕"



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw3CP0XD...on_share_sheet

"Hide your heart from sight,
Lock your dreams at night,
It could happen to you.
Don't count stars
Or you might stumble,
Someone drops a sigh
And down you tumble,
Keep an eye on spring,
Run when church bells ring.
It could happen to you
All i did was wonder
How your arms would be
And it happened to me..."

It really is beautiful seeing all these couples with matching SMWW tattoos. And not only that, but it’s gotten so popular it’s one of the most popular ideas for a couple to get the matching tattoos and what it represents is known.

[Last Son of Krypton]

That’s the problem. Trying to change how it was originally. Trying to make it more than what it is hasn’t worked. Not only that, but Diana isn’t getting the respect she deserves anyway. It’s a branding thing without substance.

Besides a brand thing, most of the time it's just 3 characters doing the poses together. 😂 Sadly, it's only the SM/WW partnership that, despite its history, ended up diluted because of the Trinity concept, while the BM/SM one keep existing just fine... 🤔

Exactly. All that pettiness for most of the stuff to be ignored. But Diana’s character has suffered tremendously because of this.

Her mythos is getting too unstable, and, also, too much storylines are devoted to "fix" it instead of telling new stories.

Diana being used as a mouth piece even by writers who claim to love and respect her? I don’t know what kind of love and respect that is.

It's even bad writing.

Heh... yeah, I know. SMWW had no reason to be apart of nor brought up with that messiness but really tried it trying to yet again drag the pair down for what he thought would be received better.

I still fail to see the point of doing it. 🤨

It is, but you still have creators and fans who don’t want to even look at that 😅

That's true. 😆

[LoveStar]

Besides a brand thing, most of the time it's just 3 characters doing the poses together. 😂 Sadly, it's only the SM/WW partnership that, despite its history, ended up diluted because of the Trinity concept, while the BM/SM one keep existing just fine... 🤔

They have a difficult time writing Diana as an individual character, so writing her with groups is sometimes even more difficult or she comes off as “Den Mother”. Her dynamic with Clark is complexed. When it can’t be written as it should be, it falls apart as we see now. The years of foundation is just not there right now.

Her mythos is getting too unstable, and, also, too much storylines are devoted to "fix" it instead of telling new stories.

Some writers thinks they can do better than the previous or they have these left field ideas they think can work with Diana but the ideas don’t.

I still fail to see the point of doing it. 🤨

Thought he could piggy back off the trend of trying to throw SMWW under the bus. “Do anything for clout.” 🤣 It was a shock for ‘em when all of that didn’t help meet his expectations.

[Deiasilva10]

Good morning people!!!! A happy day for us all!

"The Justice League is waiting to brighten up your party!"



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"May the 4th be with everyone!"



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[Last Son of Krypton]

They have a difficult time writing Diana as an individual character, so writing her with groups is sometimes even more difficult or she comes off as “Den Mother”. Her dynamic with Clark is complexed. When it can’t be written as it should be, it falls apart as we see now. The years of foundation is just not there right now.

This can be attributed to many writers' lack of familiarity with the character of WW, I think.

"The years of foundation" weren't there even after the Flashpoint reboot/reset though but you still had them starting to know better each other after they begun dating. Right now they just have a long shared history but it's all empty.

Some writers thinks they can do better than the previous or they have these left field ideas they think can work with Diana but the ideas don’t.

Like making her lasso a whip? 😜

Thought he could piggy back off the trend of trying to throw SMWW under the bus. “Do anything for clout.” 🤣 It was a shock for ‘em when all of that didn’t help meet his expectations.

And spend years to complain about the result. 😅

[LadyP]

Wasn’t this a bait and switch cause more superficial, petty reasons? Clark all of a sudden having cold feet and awkward.
However, I do like the set up only if only it’s not trying to force this contrived “too different” narrative. New52 showed it can work and last being both a creative and financial success. Doesn’t that all matter? It should. So, if/when they try again, hoping for better creative team that respects and understands both. Also would like the “slow burn”+”just (bestiebae) friends” + “tabloid concept”. It can be done properly🤣

Yes to the bolded part. There's just something so special, meaningful and that much more compelling in the slow build up approach. Getting to know one another. Becoming friends. Becoming best friends or as you say 'bestibaes'. Sharing the innermost parts of themselves with each other. Being vulnerable. The trust, bond, love formed from that. It's real. It feels genuine and earned. It's the reason I cherish that aspect of their post crisis version a lot. It's part of what makes Kingdom Come feel full circle and poignant.

Meaningful, compelling stories matter.

I don't think it would've changed anything, detractors claimed that the series was a financial failure since it begun. 🤨 You can't win with those people.

And that's their prerogative and completely inconsequential when proven false over and over again. The issue lies with those at the helm who due to their own biases and agenda deliberately sabotage something because it does not serve their own selfish desires. That's the problem.

Despite their "differences" pointed out in that old story are true for the SM/WW of that time, I don't see them as a good "out-of-story" excuse because differences=story potential. But it was fine as an in-story reason for the post-Crisis SM/WW to not pursue a relationship. No pettiness was there.

I don't think that I agree with this at all. If anything, the relationship and understanding they formed in that era went a long way to disprove those "differences" translating to them not being able to be together. If anything, we saw that it was because of exactly who they were that led to them having the deepest and most meaningful connection with one another than they had with anyone else. It is that established friendship and connection that propelled their union in Kingdom Come. What we saw was that it wasn't that they were too different to make it work when they first met, but that emotionally, maturity, and experience wise, they just were not yet ready for the kind of relationship which they could have and deserved. And it was that friendship, that relationship of deep trust, honesty, love, transparency, dependability, vulnerability, the give and take, and many other qualifiers that they established that would eventually make any romantic relationship between them extremely successful.

When the friendship was destroyed under questionable circumstances, for Diana to be forsaken by the one man (Clark) who basically knew her better than anyone else to no longer stand by her, it was by a writer(s) who wanted to push another narrative and insert another relationship.

I can never buy the claim of Superman and Wonder Woman being too different. It just rings completely false and hollow. When the very inspiration of her creation is connected to Superman it just sounds like a very ridiculous excuse. Sorry, but I hate that fake argument from detractors because it usually lends to unfavorable mischaracterization of Diana.

[LadyP]

I think it was around the time of the Doomed crossover that, in a Q&A, a "fan" asked to the editor to break SM/WW up and cancel the series because he had the power to do it or something. The answer he/she got was that there wasn't a reason to do so because the series was selling well and the pair was popular.



It's not a science, they'll pick and choose anyway. Look at what they did in Rebirth with Faora, swapping her with Ursa cuz she was more popular because of the Donner movies. What's that? Synergy with 40-years old movies? 🤣

Ugh! Say it ain't so?! Really? This is what I mean when I talk selfish desires/self interest by those currently at the helm. I'd understand if these were phenomenal and compelling versions and not just doing such things for nostalgia sake.

The 80s' "excuses" like Clark not being comfortable with WW not-so street level world, feeling out of Diana's league and that "no mortal man or Superman is worthy of her" preclude a potential romance with Steve Trevor too if they want to be coherent. Don't forget that, back then, Superman and Steve were both "friendzoned" for not much dissimilar reasons.

This is the ridiculousness that annoys me by some of these writers. Yet here was a man who is an alien, whose alien DNA led him to off world places.

To the bolded portion, exactly. Be consistent if you're going to make such claims.
I will continue to believe that SM's relationship and marriage to that other character is a manifestation of his insecurity and continued desire to just blend in as a human while denying the "other" aspect of who he is. It is such a problematic notion. It is why I hate that whole "Clark" is who I am narrative because it is false. Even the Clark persona tends to change based on who he is around so how can that be deemed as authentic?

I can't see DC investing in the Multiverse with ongoing series, just special limited projects here and there as usual. Continuing the KC saga somehow is a must, and I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later. After Miller pitching a book about SM/WW's son, Alex Ross can pitch a book about SM/WW's 5 children in the KCverse, lol. 🤣

This would be a Christmas and Birthday present rolled up into one.

[LadyP]

Then they will give another shot in the foot since Marvel spoke openly in Multiverse in Endgame and the Spiderman Far From Home trailer.... if DC want to stay at least close to Marvel it better start changing its concepts now! I'm not just talking about SMWW, I'm talking about being a fan of the company's heroes, I'm talking about being a fan of Justice Society, of the Justice Leagues of the parallel Earths, I'm talking about being a fan of this fantastic multiverse.

When I think about how excited I was to watch Endgame, and the beautiful and emotional cumulation of that journey and how DC could have really laid a solid foundation if they had dug deep into their well of source materials, it hurts. I just continue to be befuddled at some of the decisions. And at times over response in the wrong direction.

[LadyP]

LOL...I thought with a business, good sales are a factor? I don’t get that logic at all



Well from the initial teams stance and storylines you had the “real Superman is back”, “this is the Superman you should love”...Wonder Woman’s whole first arc was throwing her entire new52 history under the bus calling it “lies”. It wasn’t mentioned

directly by them, but indirectly to have this ok’ed wasn’t it either.
So detractors were able to use that even though even in DC’s encyclopedias or the actually story before trying to rewrite it all to fit this false narrative, says otherwise.

This is why it should’ve been left alone. New52 should’ve been set on another line then instead of what they did.



Well Superman is never going to gain the relevance nor popularity he lost and some with this mindset. 🤔



I think in ways, it helped and hurt them in long term. Especially Superman. Wonder Woman, I think stayed neutral until just straight up being directionless and her supporting cast just wasn’t stable nor was interesting.



Their most notable, memorable stories are “elseworlds”. So special limited projects are definitely needed.

Agreed.
If it means well developed and well told stories with meaning and impact, then yes please. Canon tends to get bugged down by the constant need for dramatics rather than actual story.

[LoveStar]

So yeah...Superman/Wonder Woman game please!!🤣

“My recently finished Superman/Wonder Woman build”







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[LadyP]

Rebirth was the worst thing that happened to WW, she lost relevance, lost credibility, lost powers, lost her personality, lost her intelligence ... became a generic character, no seasoning. The current phase of DC is a boys' club where only the girlfriends have any relevance and I see no one, no feminist for convenience, of those who screamed that dating Superman would lessen the WW claiming it ... it's a hypocrisy without limits! Rucka destroyed the WW irrevocably, something he tried several times but fortunately had not gotten it before. As a woman I abhor everything he's done to her ... Superman is not in better shape either! It is a fact that both just reach their full potential when they are together.

As for Batman to be selling, it is more because the fans are faithful than the quality of the stories, just talk to any fan more conscious of him that you perceive the dissatisfaction with the present phase of the hero.

That part. It's why I just avoid the WW forum generally because I just become annoyed and upset. Where is the outcry? Some folks are more concerned about irrelevant items than the problematic characterization and depowering of this iconic character. Or they are just fine to go along with whatever as long as Steve remains a love interest last I was there.
Yes, Wonder Woman may have gained critical acclaim through the success of the live action movie, but when you look at current comics and depictions, what is there to convince you of why she is a wonder in the first place? Her strength and ability that used to be so awesome that all she ever really needed were her hands, lasso and gauntlets, where is that? They subverted the narrative of her origins to turn her into the countless illegitimate children of Zeus (for those who seemed to have a hard time believing that yes a woman can be powerful and give Superman a run for his money and be made from clay and blessed by mainly goddesses and not due to being born from a powerful god), but where is the powerhouse now? Since being the daughter of Zeus is supposedly the best thing?

I just hate the way her narrative and origin seem to get changed on the whim of writers who can't respect or appreciate her lore and/or purpose.

[Gaelforce]

Just a reminder that this is an Appreciation thread, so let's stay away from what people hate about writers and fans of other pairings.

Let's get back to the Appreciation!

[Deiasilva10]

Good morning beautiful people!!!! A happy and blessed day for us all!

“The best way to be appreciative for your life is to live it; don't die for any other reason but love. Dreams are what guide us, art is what defines us, math is makes it all possible, and love is what lights our way.”
― Mike Norton

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[LoveStar]

This can be attributed to many writers' lack of familiarity with the character of WW, I think.

That. And not taking the time to get familiar.

"The years of foundation" weren't there even after the Flashpoint reboot/reset though but you still had them starting to know better each other after they begun dating. Right now they just have a long shared history but it's all empty.

Well yeah, it was a reboot (clean slate) after all. However, I say it was more of an evolution to it all. It still connected and took a huge step forward that has been building for years.

This right now is a total disconnect, everything seems backwards and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Yes to the bolded part. There's just something so special, meaningful and that much more compelling in the slow build up approach. Getting to know one another. Becoming friends. Becoming best friends or as you say 'bestibaes'. Sharing the innermost parts of themselves with each other. Being vulnerable. The trust, bond, love formed from that. It's real. It feels genuine and earned. It's the reason I cherish that aspect of their post crisis version a lot. It's part of what makes Kingdom Come feel full circle and poignant.

Meaningful, compelling stories matter.

Because unconsciously that’s how relationships we in reality strive for are. Your “relationship goals”. You look on twitter, IG, or FB viral couples posts and they always talk about being best friends and the journey it took for them to get to that point. SMWW dynamic genuinely connects to reality because it’s not written as a fairytale. It’s not written about them only being together for powers or whatever other superficial nonsense is brought up. It’s not perfect by any means but you see the work and effort put in the relationship.

I don't think that I agree with this at all. If anything, the relationship and understanding they formed in that era went a long way to disprove those "differences" translating to them not being able to be together. If anything, we saw that it was because of exactly who they were that led to them having the deepest and most meaningful connection with one another than they had with anyone else. It is that established friendship and connection that propelled their union in Kingdom Come. What we saw was that it wasn't that they were too different to make it work when they first met, but that emotionally, maturity, and experience wise, they just were not yet ready for the kind of relationship which they could have and deserved. And it was that friendship, that relationship of deep trust, honesty, love, transparency, dependability, vulnerability, the give and take, and many other qualifiers that they established that would eventually make any romantic relationship between them extremely successful.

When the friendship was destroyed under questionable circumstances, for Diana to be forsaken by the one man (Clark) who basically knew her better than anyone else to no longer stand by her, it was by a writer(s) who wanted to push another narrative and insert another relationship.

I can never buy the claim of Superman and Wonder Woman being too different. It just rings completely false and hollow. When the very inspiration of her creation is connected to Superman it just sounds like a very ridiculous excuse. Sorry, but I hate that fake argument from detractors because it usually lends to unfavorable mischaracterization of Diana.

All of this is just so on point!