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  1. #181
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    OMG! This is so magnificent.

    Jack is amazing with KC work. Like his KC SMWW. This could be Kal touching down on Smallville after this talk with Diana at the FOS. It is after this talk we saw him back out in the world in the KC uniform. I imagine he comes home before saving people in the cable cars. There is so much missing parts from KC one needs filling. I'd love to see Jack tackle KC Diana too. Hell to do a KC centric book too.




    Agreed! Which is why I hope that when we finally get the live action adaptation, with Alex Ross overseeing it, we will finally get to delve into those missing scenes not fully captured in the limited edition. I have questions and thoughts I would have loved to see addressed. My issue with there not being enough dialogue for Diana finally rectified. And hopefully, a dialing back on Diana being aggressive/quick to violence. While she is an Amazon, she was one who gravitated towards righteous war, as would behoove one blessed by Athena.

    These two panels highlight what I mean when I say these two together challenge one another. Here are two beings of strong moral fiber who were known for the care and compassion that they had for humanity. Not only that, they were close friends who knew one another very well. Who better to redirect and reconnect when the other has lost their way? Who better to challenge them on a misconception or wrong ideology. This whole scene spoke to me the first time I read it, and it speaks to me now because it is so compelling. It is the type of conflict I would expect these two to have if they ever had one, it would be something that challenged philosophically rather than on contrived angst and conflict for conflicts sake.

  2. #182
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    LOL this edit is going around and is perfectly accurate!


    Henry can rock a beard and he does look in perfect shape for KC Supes!

    KC is a storyline that deserves live action but done right! Itís been asked for, for a very long time. However, Alexís art style is too complexed to adapt in animation unless giving a more 3D type but...Animation isnít good enough, thatís already been said as so anyway. Which is a good thing because It doesnít need to be watered down, doesnít need to be rewritten to fit some contrived view. It needs to be adapted point by point.
    It would be a miracle and a dream come true if Patty could!


    Kal and Dianaís kids...6 different POVs how the world changed in a 1000 years. How they became who they are as unique individuals being apart of two combined legacies.


    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Absolutely! It needs proper build up. It is the final chap in the DCU story. You have to work towards it properly. Establish dynamics etc.

    That meme. Heheheh. Yes, people squeeing and some are speculating he could be bulking for MOS 2. But no Superman other than KC has guns like that. But most likely for Witcher.



    Yes. We really do. Jim Lee wants to flesh out DK verse. I think KC deserves that too. I'd love to see when Clark and Diana confess their love for one another, as the kiss was just a precursor and when she tells him she's pregnant because HIS reaction is as equally important as Batman being told...pivotal moments like that were not shown and I think could be. I don't like when DC takes good stories and tries to do absurd things with them like Convergence used KC verse and did nothing memorable. Just don't even go there.
    In agreement with the bolded parts. As much as I would love to see KC adapted to the silver screen, I am not too anxious about it at the moment simply because I as stated, when done, it must be done correctly. The proper foundations and dynamics have yet to be established, not to speak of the people to be trusted to adapt such an iconic and well regarded body of work. DC/WB are just not ready to be entrusted with adapting KC in the near future.

    P.S. I love everything about that meme above.

  3. #183
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    Oh!! League of One please!!! That would be incredible! DCEU should be somewhat under the guidance of Patty period and Wonder Woman lead. I¬íll take the build of the bestiebae with deep soul feelings 😉

    This is actually something I would love to see after their dynamic has been established in the DCEU, which I believe the best way to go about it would be with the Spirit of Truth first before we see the adaptation of the amazing depiction of who Diana is in a League of One.

  4. #184
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    I kinda want to see a scene like this so badly from Spirit of Truth. BM v SM was just a wasted amt of opportunity. Clark Kent and Diana could have met then but nooo. It's failure assures me that DCEU won't be bothering with that too much. But something like Clark Kent just chatting with Diana about the way they see the world and their roles is wonderful stuff. I am sure Patty has picked up this wonderful gn and seen this scene.

    YES!
    The ideal and perfect establishment to the SMWW dynamic/friendship/foundation building would be a Spirit of Truth IMHO. After the flop that was the JL movie, along with the fact there has been two connected movies now in which these two whom were best friends for years haven't even exchanged a hi/hello let alone a proper dialogue I can really see the adaption of a Spirit of Truth following after. It properly captures what I trying to say of two characters that naturally connect to one another because they understand the isolation that comes from being different. From inhabiting different worlds while not quite belonging in anyone and using their powers for good. They both innately seek to do good and that is another thing that connects them. It is not far fetched that one would seek out the other especially if this other has been in the "business" a little bit longer for reference/suggestion or just to talk. My goodness. DC has a rich plethora of source material from which to build the DCEU which they ignored for a myopic "vision". grrh! Nothing worse than when hopefully and inspiring characters are turned dark/angsty/myopic because there is this false correlation that that is what makes realistic storytelling (silently thanks God once again for Patty).

    I live for the day Spirit of Truth is adapted to live screen. Being able to see Diana in all her glory and what makes her the amazing and compassionate character that she is. And also her struggle to align her mission/goal with the reality of people and their personality/beliefs along with possible resistance. Diana is so much more than a fierce Amazon warrior, and I want to see that brought back to her. I loved how Spirit of Truth captures her humanity in her struggle to do the right thing while walking the tight rope that is human politics and doing what she sees as the right thing. I will admit that I am not a fan of Clark telling her to stop being so perfect. Because as I see it, it is not about her being perfect, but that she is perceived as so (I guess this may be an issue of him having placed her on a pedestal), she only ever seeks to do the right thing not to act as if she is better. Nevertheless, before I ramble on further, it would be amazing to see this on the silver screen.

  5. #185
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    🤔 hmm... Iíll say if it fits right which mostly likely it can and will. League of One and Spirit of Truth should be linked together as inspirations. Clark and Dianaís dynamic is a defining aspect of their characters. They learn from each other and teach each other. These two should have a stand alone movie together, to highlight why this dynamic is naturally gravitated toward. There is no reason why it shouldnít have happened by now.

    The lack of interaction was one of the main issues questioned and as we see from various of comments and posts, the interaction between the two was missed, wanted and clearly needed.
    Exactly! And those two works faithfully adapted are the perfect segue to the Clark and Diana (Diana and Kal) dynamic. Their bond and what they bring/brought to one another is something too rich and impacting to just be discarded. It is organic and meaningfully.

    DC/WB attempting to limit their interaction in the movie verse did not go unnoticed as you stated. Having two of its most iconic characters, of whom one was created as an answer to the other for goodness's sake, who have had MANY MANY meaningful interactions over the years to put it mildly, not even exchange greeting with one another let alone have a full sentence conversation is mind boggling. It speaks to the level and extent DC/WB was willing to go forcefully insert an unnatural dynamic which they were attempting to create while ignoring one that has been in existence for decades. Who would have believed it if it was stated 10 years ago that Wonder Wonman would have more interactions with Cyborg than she would with Superman in a movie where they both featured??!

  6. #186
    Astonishing Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Another SMWW cover signed by Gal and Henry.



    anime smww

    https://www.deviantart.com/asiathebl...ples-778997774
    Hehe itís interesting and very ironic Henry and Gal have signed many Superman/Wonder Woman covers!

    Really advocating for an SMWW anime!

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    I will forever love this image. Because for me, this is the true essence of SMWW. In spite of who and what they are, at heart they are just as regular as the next person in that the enjoy the simple things in life. Whether it be catching up over a sundae, chatting as they walk through the park, or more unique for them, "skywalking," they are two people who do not see themselves as being above others. They were loving, selfless beings, with the purest hearts who saw and sought the best in others. They brought that out of each other as well which is what made their bond so precious to me. I miss that so much.
    Clark and Diana are the most humbled, human characters of all despite their powers. Their have never been defined by their powers, but of the purity and heart of gold they have. They cherish the most simplest things and even if they do and/or cherish otherworldly, extraordinary things, itís nothing wrong with that. Itís what they should do.

    However, things are either forcefully inserted these days or there is a heavy reliance of telling rather than showing in the current story arcs. They fall flat and feel inorganic as well as coming across as pandering especially as it relates to maintaining status quo. I'm no longer excited about the stories of the character that I used to be able to relate so much to. Nor do I feel any interest to current iterations of these characters that I once gravitated towards for their strong moral fiber, their compassion, humility and selflessness. Their heroic feat, and just the loving, tender aspect of their character. Their humanity, which was once an integral part of who they were pandered for human love interests. Disheartening.
    Itís not exciting at all when they take away what makes them extraordinary complexed characters to be watered down just for a specific very limiting status quo. It leads to nothing but stagnantion.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    A person who has had to work hard for what they have will appreciate it more than the one who has been handed what they have without any real effort on their part. It is not surprising that many wise/old adages comes from those of a more humble background. Those who have had to toil for what they have, experience life not only differently but more honestly. It is the reason I am baffled when some correlate Clark's "farmboy" upbringing with lack of wisdom/intelligence. It is a baffling and arrogant supposition that has harmed the character over the years under the pen of some writers.

    One of the reasons I SM and WW resonated so much with me, especially Diana, was that whole inisider/outsider perspective that they bring. They are both individuals who inhabit multiple worlds. In Diana's case, that of an Amazon, a Princess, a divine creation (aka clay birth - gosh I miss this origin) or being a demigoddess, these parts of her all converge to form who she is while connecting and also isolating her at the same time. This was something I feel that George Perez (a writer I will remain glad that I came to learn of Wonder Woman's origin through) perfectly captures. Being part of different things but not quite belonging to anyone thing. While Diana was an Amazon she wasn't quite like the other Amazon's. Not only did her origin isolate her, her status as a Princess did as well. Her origin meant she was't like anyone else. She was able to have experiences that her other Amazon sisters couldn't quite relate to or understand. When out in "Man's World" she was once again isolated by her culture and her origin. As a clay origin, there tended to be focus on whether she was "a real woman" as if she didn't experience the same joys, pain, happiness, and many other emotions that made a person. The only difference was that as a trained Amazon she is not likely to give in to certain emotions as easily/quickly as a regular person.

    Nevertheless, she was still a loving and compassionate individual who didn't quite belong to any one world. Same with Superman, Clark Kent, Kal-El. A being that had more humanity than humans themselves. He straddled the spheres of being the confident hero known as Superman, the farmboy Clark Kent and/or bumbling reporter based on the surrounding, and the kryptonian male Kal-el who encompassed the two aforementioned personas. As someone who considers herself a "quasi-immigrant" (US born but has a definitive non-western cultural identity and heritage), I find it offensive and insulting that Kal was made to be resentful or even dismissive of his Kryptonian side in order to fulfill the almost obsessive desire he had to pass as human. I relate to the insider/outsider experience as it is something I have experienced myself. Not quite belonging to any one world/sphere. Maybe it is one of the reasons why I gravitate a lot to George Perez's Wonder Woman, because Diana's naivete about certain things upon arriving to 'Man's World' and while being an Amazon, not being quite like the rest, were relatable.

    Heritage is an important thing and is not something to be shunned or undermined. Especially for Kal, whose very existence is owed to the loving sacrifice of his birth parents. Ones heritage informs not just about our history, but it plays a part in who we are and/or become. Knowing ones self is important for identity and confidence building. Not to speak of the ideology that the rejection of Kal-El, the assertion of Clark Kent being all of who he is or that Superman's humanity is only acceptable/legitimate/credible as long as he is with a human love interest is not only an arrogant supposition, but it reeks heavily of prejudice. It says that a person is only acceptable as long as he/she confirms to the dominant culture of the particular society. Many a times in the past, in order to escape or lessen the chance of discrimination, a person of a different background married into the dominant culture in hopes of acceptance. It is this type of rejection of the "other" or that the "other" is only acceptable when they prove that they belong by conforming that I can not get with. Why anyone would think that this principle should be connected to Superman, something so diminishing escapes me.

    Superman and Wonder Woman's connection are many. Their main one being the connection they formed from the understanding of knowing what it was like to inhabit different spheres while not belonging to anyone in particular. It was something organic and realistic. We connect with people many a times we are able to identify with. To have beings who are suppose to embody the principles of truth and inclusiveness rejecting any part of who they are seems contrary to the values they are supposed to espouse. Their core values were an inherent part of them instilled by their upbringing. It is meant to be an identifiable aspect of who they are. However, those who lack the understanding of this have twisted aspects of what made these characters who they were into something negative that should be shunned.


    In this modern age, embracing all of who and what each of us are is more relatable then trying to seperate or resent parts of who/what we are. Itís very shameful to twist the true nature and ideas of these characters deeming their ďothernessĒ as wrong and unacceptable because of one societyís insecurity. Superman and Wonder womn are the main characters who are suppose to be advocates of going against this kind of mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    Exactly! And those two works faithfully adapted are the perfect segue to the Clark and Diana (Diana and Kal) dynamic. Their bond and what they bring/brought to one another is something too rich and impacting to just be discarded. It is organic and meaningfully.

    DC/WB attempting to limit their interaction in the movie verse did not go unnoticed as you stated. Having two of its most iconic characters, of whom one was created as an answer to the other for goodness's sake, who have had MANY MANY meaningful interactions over the years to put it mildly, not even exchange greeting with one another let alone have a full sentence conversation is mind boggling. It speaks to the level and extent DC/WB was willing to go forcefully insert an unnatural dynamic which they were attempting to create while ignoring one that has been in existence for decades. Who would have believed it if it was stated 10 years ago that Wonder Wonman would have more interactions with Cyborg than she would with Superman in a movie where they both featured??!
    1000% agree! This is very much known and obviously backed up with real life examples. As last son stated, SMWW goes beyond comics....goes beyond at them them just being charcters, because of how they resonate in a realistic way to so many, especially to couples.

    Yeah I hope that DC/WB sees the missteps and change.

  7. #187
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    YES!
    The ideal and perfect establishment to the SMWW dynamic/friendship/foundation building would be a Spirit of Truth IMHO. After the flop that was the JL movie, along with the fact there has been two connected movies now in which these two whom were best friends for years haven't even exchanged a hi/hello let alone a proper dialogue I can really see the adaption of a Spirit of Truth following after. It properly captures what I trying to say of two characters that naturally connect to one another because they understand the isolation that comes from being different. From inhabiting different worlds while not quite belonging in anyone and using their powers for good. They both innately seek to do good and that is another thing that connects them. It is not far fetched that one would seek out the other especially if this other has been in the "business" a little bit longer for reference/suggestion or just to talk. My goodness. DC has a rich plethora of source material from which to build the DCEU which they ignored for a myopic "vision". grrh! Nothing worse than when hopefully and inspiring characters are turned dark/angsty/myopic because there is this false correlation that that is what makes realistic storytelling (silently thanks God once again for Patty).

    I live for the day Spirit of Truth is adapted to live screen. Being able to see Diana in all her glory and what makes her the amazing and compassionate character that she is. And also her struggle to align her mission/goal with the reality of people and their personality/beliefs along with possible resistance. Diana is so much more than a fierce Amazon warrior, and I want to see that brought back to her. I loved how Spirit of Truth captures her humanity in her struggle to do the right thing while walking the tight rope that is human politics and doing what she sees as the right thing. I will admit that I am not a fan of Clark telling her to stop being so perfect. Because as I see it, it is not about her being perfect, but that she is perceived as so (I guess this may be an issue of him having placed her on a pedestal), she only ever seeks to do the right thing not to act as if she is better. Nevertheless, before I ramble on further, it would be amazing to see this on the silver screen.

    Ah good to see you back Lady P!

    I think Clark did not tell her she needs to stop being perfect. He said coming from a being who others perceive as perfect, her message could get lost or taken on negatively in some quarters. I see his pov and I think Diana took it on board. It is where the ID came in useful to blend in to connect to the ordinary man/woman as just an everywoman. This is one use of the ID I am comfortable with it being used for a purpose. Not as DC tries to make it out Clark is better or more grounded than her for it. Fact I'd argue he isn't all that grounded if he denied the other part of himself because you have to embrace all that you are to be an actualized person. But for a while an ID can give you a different perspective and see the world in a wider lens. Not as a Princess. Not as a hero. Not as a celebrity. Not as a diplomat. Not as a spy. Not as a wealthy Amazon living in penthouses dealing with Gods as her job. She can get in and among normal people...situations where people will not be in awe, stand on ceremony with her, fawn or feel intimidated by her, give her privilege ( be it limos, hotels, tv spots , magazine interviews etc all the trappings that went with the Ambassador) to be followed by Paps to report her every step, to have people hassling her for selfies etc etc.

    It is important to do a job without all that sometimes if you want to understand different worlds and cultures and peoples. A regular woman struggling with a band of children , a single mom, a factory worker, a shop keeper, a farmer, a teacher, a refugee around the world etc. They are not going to feel someone of wealth and privilege can walk in their shoes and feel their pains. Yes, a rich person can feel compassion and dedicate money and time to charity etc. I know she had some stuff she did as an Ambassador and that was great but...it is not the same as living among them. In my humble opinion Diana needs some time to go incognito to truly get it. Even if it is a year out of her long life to understand. In Spirit of Truth she did. She did for herself. She worked as a volunteer, trying to remove landmines, I saw her looking as if she was was helping the sick...all as Diana Prince. Just so she can do what we all do. I think coming out of a Paradise and just saying you love everyone without even knowing who everyone is for me needs addressing. I like the ID for that. I don't think she needs the ID to define her or needs to keep it forever. When she is ready she can leave it or go to it. It's not done to lecture anyone or preach at anyone but just to understand better.

    I expect the same of Clark too. His world needs expanding. He talks a lot about everyman pov but he needs the global lens too and Peace of Earth does show that in a very effective way . Usually he is too much stuck in one city that really does not need him that much imo as a reporter. He should be writing from other parts of the world and country. Parts of the world and US that the media often forgets after a big story breaks, like life after that hurricane, earthquake, during drought, etc. It's not glamorous or sensational I guess. Have you seen some of those food vloggers on youtube? They not only eat but see a country and open up the culture for the world that sometimes the media created a negative impression because they ( media) might report one pressing thing about a place and not the many other wonderful things? Clark can take any subject and do this and he can inform and educate people that there is more to unite us than divide us. As Superman he does the bigger things, risking his life and fighting the big fights but as Clark he can be a voice for our conscience by just showing, not judging or lecturing at people but allowing his readers to absorb and open their eyes too. Instead he's doing investigative journalism which frankly puts his own ethics at question and his intellect. But again old troupes. Notice too in Spirit of Truth Diana does this journey importantly on her own. He is not lecturing her or guiding her. Clark is used as her sounding board and ear because he is the best one to understanding her battle. He isn't telling her what to feel or what to do on that journey. She is allowed to find it out on her own. It's like after a long hard day's work we call our bestie and say...What a day I had...and like a good friend...they say...Tell me about it.

    If they did Clark this way, it would be inevitable he would cross paths with Diana. Whether she was an Ambassador or used the ID. They have the same interests in terms of effecting social change. But some writers seem to ignore this. Esp Superman writers and of course try to dump on Diana as if her pov is somehow not relevant. I also think when SM and WW challenge each other it is about reciprocation. It can't only be a one way street. So while he might be more an expert at the world, he lives in it longer than she has, she can offer that innocence and freshness and amazon passion that even one as himself ( an idealist) can connect with. It's hard to find a lesson for Superman and Wonder Woman if you write them as icons and can make them less interesting. They should be allowed to have a learning curve. No one is perfect . No one. Even the kindest person can feel heartbreak or feel disappointed in the world. The world is also a dark place. It's always been. It's not picnics and road trips. To assume it is means living in a bubble. This is where characters like Clark and Diana get to shine. They stay the optimistic beings they are yet you see the emotions they go through and growth by trying to deal with the world or universe as the case might be. Clark and Diana can be so compelling as people, as interesting as Batman. You have to leave some of those old troupes behind though to do it.

    In the DCEU Diana is an antique dealer supposedly . Fine. I am assuming she could not have been one all those decades. She did others things. I have no idea what Patty will have her do in 1984. But this idea of Diana being part of the world , what did she do all those years, why did she hide etc and only came out for a photo of a dead man and did nothing when an alien invasion came etc...all certainly needs addressing. If Wonder Woman is to be about love, it shouldn't be around one person. Similarly if Clark is to be about hope and protecting the world, it should not be about one person. These concepts of love and hope are unconditional and wider if you are supposed to be flying the banner for them.

    So the Clark Kent convo with Diana Prince is one that would writes itself IF they cared an iota for the source material.
    Last edited by hellacre; 01-06-2019 at 09:57 AM.

  8. #188
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post







    In this modern age, embracing all of who and what each of us are is more relatable then trying to seperate or resent parts of who/what we are.


    New 52 SMWW definitely. No every Superman or Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman was like this from Perz to Azzarello. Superman has been but there have been some of his versions that one wonders why is he called the greatest. Based on what? Killing him? That's old hat. Plus he isn't the only one who sacrifices his life as a hero. You cannot have characters making big statements about truth, love, justice, the never ending battle...when they do things that actually contradict those terms or do things that make you think they are hypocritical . You cannot be for truth if you lie. A half truth is not truth, nor is manipulating truth about truth either. You cannot be for hope if faced with tragedy ( and I mean real tragedy, not first world problem kind ie stuff that people in other parts of the world wrestle every day with dignity) and go evil. You can't be for for the never ending battle and you pack it in early to play house because you are happy or acting as if you alone have a right to an easy life so you leave it behind to others to struggle? I mean I would give the characters time to recover from tragedy. They are owed that like everyone else because no one is made of stone that but when characters who are supposed to be heroic cop out on flimsy excuses I wonder at the effrontery to suggest they are the best at representing these qualities. But we know when written well, ie nuance, with conscious thought, etc Clark/Superman and Diana/Wonder Woman are among the best to represent them.

  9. #189
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    Clark and Diana are the most humbled, human characters of all despite their powers. Their have never been defined by their powers, but of the purity and heart of gold they have. They cherish the most simplest things and even if they do and/or cherish otherworldly, extraordinary things, it’s nothing wrong with that. It’s what they should do.
    Exact! Sometimes I feel that Clark and Diana, besides not being defined by their powers, they possess it for deserving! For example Diana has a good and pure heart, she is incapable of prejudices and racism and a simple way to demonstrate this is with her communicating with the animals, treating them with respect, compassion and love ... Clark for his part, despite being ultrapowerful, has a heart of gold, does not have a drop of macabre ambition! If there is something that makes me upset is that DC took Injustice very seriously ... I confess that I even had fun with Injustice the game and Injustice vol 1 but I have in mind that this is an unbelievable distortion of SM and WW! SM would never accept to be a dictator, he has a heart of gold and a balanced mind and as for Diana, well, despite coming from a monarchical regime she does not have a drop of authoritarianism in her body!

  10. #190
    Astonishing Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Ah good to see you back Lady P!

    I think Clark did not tell her she needs to stop being perfect. He said coming from a being who others perceive as perfect, her message could get lost or taken on negatively in some quarters. I see his pov and I think Diana took it on board. It is where the ID came in useful to blend in to connect to the ordinary man as just a woman. This is one use of the ID I am comfortable with it being used for a purpose. Not as DC tries to make it out Clark is better or more grounded than her for it. Fact I'd argue he isn't all that grounded if he denied the other part of himself because you have to embrace all that you are to be an actualized person. But for a while an ID can give you a different perspective and see the world in a wider lens. Not as a Princess. Not as a hero. Not as a celebrity. Not as a diplomat. Not as a spy. Not as a wealthy Amazon living in penthouses dealing with Gods as her job. She can get in and among normal people...situations where people will not be in awe, stand on ceremony with her, fawn or feel intimidated by her, give her privilege ( be it limos, hotels, tv spots , magazine interviews etc all the trappings that went with the Ambassador) to be followed by Paps to report her every step, to have people hassling her for selfies etc etc.

    It is important to do a job without all that sometimes if you want to understand different worlds and cultures and peoples. A regular woman struggling with a band of children , a single mom, a factory worker, a shop keeper, a farmer, a teacher, a refugee around the world etc. They are not going to feel someone of wealth and privilege can walk in their shoes and feel their pains. Yes, a rich person can feel compassion and dedicate money and time to charity etc. I know she had some stuff she did as an Ambassador and that was great but...it is not the same as living among them. In my humble opinion Diana needs some time to go incognito to truly get it. Even if it is a year out of her long life to understand. In Spirit of Truth she did. She did for herself. She worked as a volunteer, trying to remove landmines, I saw her looking as if she was was helping the sick...all as Diana Prince. Just so she can do what we all do. I think coming out of a Paradise and just saying you love everyone without even knowing who everyone is for me needs addressing. I like the ID for that. I don't think she needs the ID to define her or needs to keep it forever. When she is ready she can leave it or go to it. It's not done to lecture anyone or preach at anyone but just to understand better.

    I expect the same of Clark too. His world needs expanding. He talks a lot about everyman pov but he needs the global lens too and Peace of Earth does show that in a very . Too much stuck in one city that really does not need him that much imo as a reporter. He should be writing from other parts of the world and country. Parts of the world and US that the media often forgets after a big story breaks, like life after that hurricane, earthquake, during drought, etc. It's not glamorous or sensational I guess. Have you seen some of those food vloggers on youtube? They not only eat but see a country and open up the culture for the world that sometimes the media created a negative impression because they ( media) might report one pressing thing about a place and not the many other wonderful things? Clark can take any subject and do this and he can inform and educate people that there is more to unite us than divide us. As Superman he does the bigger things, risking his life and fighting the big fights but as Clark he can be a voice for our conscience by just showing, not judging or lecturing at people but allowing his readers to absorb and open their eyes too. Instead he's doing investigative journalism which frankly puts his own ethics at question and his intellect. But again old troupes. Notice too in Spirit of Truth Diana does this journey importantly on her own. He is not lecturing her or guiding her. Clark is used as her sounding board and ear because he is the best one to understanding her battle. He isn't telling her what to feel or what to do on that journey. She is allowed to find it out on her own. It's like after a long hard day's work we call our bestie and say...What a day I had...and like a good friend...they say...Tell me about it.

    If they did Clark this way, it would be inevitable he would cross paths with Diana. Whether she was an Ambassador or used the ID. They have the same interests in terms of effecting social change. But some writers seem to ignore this. Esp Superman writers and of course try to dump on Diana as if her pov is somehow not relevant. I also think when SM and WW challenge each other it is about reciprocation. It can't only be a one way street. So while he might be more an expert at the world, he lives in it longer than she has, she can offer that innocence and freshness and amazon passion that even one as himself ( an idealist) can connect with. It's hard to find a lesson for Superman and Wonder Woman if you write them as icons and can make them less interesting. They should be allowed to have a learning curve. No one is perfect . No one. Even the kindest person can feel heartbreak or feel disappointed in the world. The world is also a dark place. It's always been. It's not picnics and road trips. To assume it is means living in a bubble. This is where characters like Clark and Diana get to shine. They stay the optimistic beings they are yet you see the emotions they go through and growth by trying to deal with the world or universe as the case might be. Clark and Diana can be so compelling as people, as interesting as Batman. You have to leave some of those old troupes behind though to do it.

    In the DCEU Diana is an antique dealer supposedly . Fine. I am assuming she could not have been one all those decades. She did others things. I have no idea what Patty will have her do in 1984. But this idea of Diana being part of the world , what did she do all those years, why did she hide etc and only came out for a photo of a dead man and did nothing when an alien invasion came etc...all certainly needs addressing. If Wonder Woman is to be about love, it shouldn't be around one person. Similarly if Clark is to be about hope and protecting the world, it should not be about one person. These concepts of love and hope are unconditional and wider if you are supposed to be flying the banner for them.

    So the Clark Kent convo with Diana Prince is one that would writes itself IF they cared an iota for the source material.
    Wow...


    All of THIS! This is the perspective and how writers should go about the ID. They don’t have to change drastically who they are to have this certain persona either like Clark putting on the act of a cowardly doofus or Diana being some type of mysterious woman or whatever.
    You can’t have them as contradicting, hypocritical self righteous preachy talking figures, which as they have been recently. That’s not relatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    New 52 SMWW definitely. No every Superman or Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman was like this from Perz to Azzarello. Superman has been but there have been some of his versions that one wonders why is he called the greatest. Based on what? Killing him? That's old hat. Plus he isn't the only one who sacrifices his life as a hero. You cannot have characters making big statements about truth, love, justice, the never ending battle...when they do things that actually contradict those terms or do things that make you think they are hypocritical . You cannot be for truth if you lie. A half truth is not truth, nor is manipulating truth about truth either. You cannot be for hope if faced with tragedy ( and I mean real tragedy, not first world problem kind ie stuff that people in other parts of the world wrestle every day with dignity) and go evil. You can't be for for the never ending battle and you pack it in early to play house because you are happy or acting as if you alone have a right to an easy life so you leave it behind to others to struggle? I mean I would give the characters time to recover from tragedy. They are owed that like everyone else because no one is made of stone that but when characters who are supposed to be heroic cop out on flimsy excuses I wonder at the effrontery to suggest they are the best at representing these qualities. But we know when written well, ie nuance, with conscious thought, etc Clark/Superman and Diana/Wonder Woman are among the best to represent them.
    This! This! This!

    Superman dying and convienently being highly regarded as the greatest is insulting to other heroes who as you said have made sacrifices and maybe even greater without hesitation. Other heroes don’t need to live in this perfect bubble or do what’s right when their personal interests are challenged. At times, Superman does that. That’s not what being a hero is. Going through the struggles, learning and accepting them all, making sacrifices without hesitation, not waiting for some type of all of a sudden predictable happy go lucky outcome is what matters and what makes a great hero.

    That’s also another issue that has been challenged and address with SMWW is Half truths. Of course that’s deemed wrong to question because It delves into even more contradiction of how Superman has been written.. But you are absolutely right! Clark can not say he is of TRUTH and JUSTICE when he himself if living a whole lie every single day.
    Last edited by LoveStar; 01-06-2019 at 10:32 AM.

  11. #191
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deiasilva10 View Post
    Exact! Sometimes I feel that Clark and Diana, besides not being defined by their powers, they possess it for deserving! For example Diana has a good and pure heart, she is incapable of prejudices and racism and a simple way to demonstrate this is with her communicating with the animals, treating them with respect, compassion and love ... Clark for his part, despite being ultrapowerful, has a heart of gold, does not have a drop of macabre ambition! If there is something that makes me upset is that DC took Injustice very seriously ... I confess that I even had fun with Injustice the game and Injustice vol 1 but I have in mind that this is an unbelievable distortion of SM and WW! SM would never accept to be a dictator, he has a heart of gold and a balanced mind and as for Diana, well, despite coming from a monarchical regime she does not have a drop of authoritarianism in her body!
    Superman would go to the law and expect himself to be put on trial and then if they acquit him, he'd try to find his own absolution...via exile etc. Diana would try to be there for her friend. She would allow him the time and space to grieve, the shoulder to cry on, the space to find himself. In Kingdom Come she gave him his space for 10 years. It is clear she often checked up on him. She never pushed him the moment he lost his wife to take over the world. Diana herself...one man made her change her entire pov in Injustice . The writer of Injustice for all his protestations does not understand them that well imo. He deliberately also seems to manipulate the narrative to blame Diana and makes her more and more brutal. These versions are not SM or WW. They are weak willed and self centered, distorted versions. I like AU versions. Heck I have zero issues about evil or misguided versions but it has to be built properly. To have the same thing happen in a multiverse is boring so this is why you twist an origin, ie like Red Son ...SM raised by Stalin and Diana sympathetic to communism...the adults they grow into make some sense. But Injustice Superman has the same upbringing DC raved about yet a tragedy hits and he goes off the rails and opts to murder...then they dump on an OOC Diana from day one to prod him. It shows an agenda. Not thoughtful writing. If they had in some way built the Injustice characters to becoming dictators in a better way, you would understand it. A sympathetic villain often is sympathetic because we understand why...we don't condone but we can see why. I still don't see why sm or ww in Injustice took the path it did. Made no sense.
    Last edited by hellacre; 01-06-2019 at 10:21 AM.

  12. #192
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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  13. #193
    Astonishing Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post

    This is a very nice design!


    This is what I would like to see for KC or DK flashback ��

  14. #194
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post




    A pregnant Diana, a child from two exiled from so different worlds, a child of magic, science, alien and divine... The most unique child in the universe since Kara and Zod may have children with humans as well, after all SM did it recently, but a son of Clark and Diana ... science and myth ... simply a single child with unknown and unlimited powers!

  15. #195
    Astonishing Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deiasilva10 View Post
    A pregnant Diana, a child from two exiled from so different worlds, a child of magic, science, alien and divine... The most unique child in the universe since Kara and Zod may have children with humans as well, after all SM did it recently, but a son of Clark and Diana ... science and myth ... simply a single child with unknown and unlimited powers!
    Exactly! A child of 4 worlds bringing in a total new perspective I donít think has ever been explored at all. New kind of challenges that tests not only Clark and Diana as parents but everyone around them, from the Gods, Amazons, entire superhero community and mortals. What would be the childís weaknesses? 🤔

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