Superman and Wonder Woman Appreciation 2019

[Last Son of Krypton]

Suppose to be this year, late though but 🤔...haven’t even heard anything about year one either?

Year One was supposed to came out in Nov. 2018... I'm still waiting. 😅 I doubt "Golden Child" will come out in time. Sadly, early 2020 is more likely.

[hellacre]

When DC will no longer feel satisfied to milk just the DKverse, it will turn to KC too. It's a matter of time. ��









I have nightmares at the thought of what the current management would do adapting KC. ��

You know DK3 The Master Race would be perfect to do an animated feature. It would adapt really well. And Supes has some great moments with breaking out the dark universe and fighting Quar's people. He and Bats also patch up their relationship. We'd see Carrie and Lara because they are the next world's Finest. And we see Wonder Momma nurturing baby Jon and kicking ass!

Of course it would be too easy to stay true to the source material for Diana for these people at DCAU who love to take away from her because of their anti smww stance. So like KC , maybe I should be glad it would prob never be done.

WB: "We don't know what to do with Superman."

Patty: "Give him to me, I will find him a better use."

WB: "Which one?"

Patty: "You'll see... hehe"

��

How I wish!!!

Wonder Woman needs to save Superman!!!!

Joking aside if fans want Cavill to continue, people need to realistic.What was done was not enough to capture the hearts of the non fan boys. Fan boys are not the only people big execs want to please. There is a reason why WB won't do a MOS 2. It is too risky. After doing well with WW and AM, why would you want to do a movie sequel that might not even better its first outing? They would want MOS2 to exceed the first and do better to keep the momentum of the movies. Anything that is less if a failure and would disrupt the DCEU that is just beginning to get some buoyancy. So really apart from leaving Superman alone for a decade and ignoring him until they decide to try again with new everything...they can try to do as we all discussed. If he guest spots and is well received, then maybe then...who knows...the way Civil War was an event done around Cap, they could do something like an event with SM and the rest. Until that time...Wonder Woman to me is the best vehicle. Look at the way Dr Strange was in Thor and was so effective. It could be as brief as that or as involved as Hulk was.

[LadyP]

Ah good to see you back Lady P!
I think Clark did not tell her she needs to stop being perfect. He said coming from a being who others perceive as perfect, her message could get lost or taken on negatively in some quarters. I see his pov and I think Diana took it on board. It is where the ID came in useful to blend in to connect to the ordinary man/woman as just an everywoman. This is one use of the ID I am comfortable with it being used for a purpose. Not as DC tries to make it out Clark is better or more grounded than her for it. Fact I'd argue he isn't all that grounded if he denied the other part of himself because you have to embrace all that you are to be an actualized person. But for a while an ID can give you a different perspective and see the world in a wider lens. Not as a Princess. Not as a hero. Not as a celebrity. Not as a diplomat. Not as a spy. Not as a wealthy Amazon living in penthouses dealing with Gods as her job. She can get in and among normal people...situations where people will not be in awe, stand on ceremony with her, fawn or feel intimidated by her, give her privilege ( be it limos, hotels, tv spots , magazine interviews etc all the trappings that went with the Ambassador) to be followed by Paps to report her every step, to have people hassling her for selfies etc etc.

I definitely should I have reread that panel. It's been a while since I read this and I think I was confusing it with something else.
Couldn't agree more with your assessment. And just as you stated it is how I see the ID being utilized. i think we mentioned this in the recently closed thread. The ID should be used as a means for them to "blend in" if you will and move around undetected so that they are able to walk amongst humanity without being bombarded. Partake in it, observe it, broaden their experience and mindset. Gain an even deeper understanding of the struggles, cares, concerns of the everyday man, woman, child. This is exactly what they should be doing, and why works such as WW: Spirit of Truth and SM: Peace on Earth stand out. They are able to showcase what makes SM and WW the compassionate characters that they are. There willingness to let go of their personal comforts as they seek to not only understand but move among the people they seek to help so that they are better able to serve them. To me, that is Diana, that is Clark. Not the mawkish tepid storylines that we currently get where they are vaunted as being heroic or "hopeful" characters who care, but there is nothing to really show for it or make one believe that there is anything extraordinary about them.
The mindset of the writer, their emotional intelligence, along with their own life experiences in some ways will impact the type of story that is written about these characters.

[LadyP]

It is important to do a job without all that sometimes if you want to understand different worlds and cultures and peoples. A regular woman struggling with a band of children , a single mom, a factory worker, a shop keeper, a farmer, a teacher, a refugee around the world etc. They are not going to feel someone of wealth and privilege can walk in their shoes and feel their pains. Yes, a rich person can feel compassion and dedicate money and time to charity etc. I know she had some stuff she did as an Ambassador and that was great but...it is not the same as living among them. In my humble opinion Diana needs some time to go incognito to truly get it. Even if it is a year out of her long life to understand. In Spirit of Truth she did. She did for herself. She worked as a volunteer, trying to remove landmines, I saw her looking as if she was was helping the sick...all as Diana Prince. Just so she can do what we all do. I think coming out of a Paradise and just saying you love everyone without even knowing who everyone is for me needs addressing. I like the ID for that. I don't think she needs the ID to define her or needs to keep it forever. When she is ready she can leave it or go to it. It's not done to lecture anyone or preach at anyone but just to understand better.

I expect the same of Clark too. His world needs expanding. He talks a lot about everyman pov but he needs the global lens too and Peace of Earth does show that in a very effective way . Usually he is too much stuck in one city that really does not need him that much imo as a reporter. He should be writing from other parts of the world and country. Parts of the world and US that the media often forgets after a big story breaks, like life after that hurricane, earthquake, during drought, etc. It's not glamorous or sensational I guess. Have you seen some of those food vloggers on youtube? They not only eat but see a country and open up the culture for the world that sometimes the media created a negative impression because they ( media) might report one pressing thing about a place and not the many other wonderful things? Clark can take any subject and do this and he can inform and educate people that there is more to unite us than divide us. As Superman he does the bigger things, risking his life and fighting the big fights but as Clark he can be a voice for our conscience by just showing, not judging or lecturing at people but allowing his readers to absorb and open their eyes too. Instead he's doing investigative journalism which frankly puts his own ethics at question and his intellect. But again old troupes. Notice too in Spirit of Truth Diana does this journey importantly on her own. He is not lecturing her or guiding her. Clark is used as her sounding board and ear because he is the best one to understanding her battle. He isn't telling her what to feel or what to do on that journey. She is allowed to find it out on her own. It's like after a long hard day's work we call our bestie and say...What a day I had...and like a good friend...they say...Tell me about it.

If they did Clark this way, it would be inevitable he would cross paths with Diana. Whether she was an Ambassador or used the ID. They have the same interests in terms of effecting social change. But some writers seem to ignore this. Esp Superman writers and of course try to dump on Diana as if her pov is somehow not relevant. I also think when SM and WW challenge each other it is about reciprocation. It can't only be a one way street. So while he might be more an expert at the world, he lives in it longer than she has, she can offer that innocence and freshness and amazon passion that even one as himself ( an idealist) can connect with. It's hard to find a lesson for Superman and Wonder Woman if you write them as icons and can make them less interesting. They should be allowed to have a learning curve. No one is perfect . No one. Even the kindest person can feel heartbreak or feel disappointed in the world. The world is also a dark place. It's always been. It's not picnics and road trips. To assume it is means living in a bubble. This is where characters like Clark and Diana get to shine. They stay the optimistic beings they are yet you see the emotions they go through and growth by trying to deal with the world or universe as the case might be. Clark and Diana can be so compelling as people, as interesting as Batman. You have to leave some of those old troupes behind though to do it.

In the DCEU Diana is an antique dealer supposedly . Fine. I am assuming she could not have been one all those decades. She did others things. I have no idea what Patty will have her do in 1984. But this idea of Diana being part of the world , what did she do all those years, why did she hide etc and only came out for a photo of a dead man and did nothing when an alien invasion came etc...all certainly needs addressing. If Wonder Woman is to be about love, it shouldn't be around one person. Similarly if Clark is to be about hope and protecting the world, it should not be about one person. These concepts of love and hope are unconditional and wider if you are supposed to be flying the banner for them.

So the Clark Kent convo with Diana Prince is one that would writes itself IF they cared an iota for the source material.

You make so many good points that I feel that I might as well have just bolded and underlined everything, because each point resonated deeply. Where do I start? We are both in agreement with the ID. Like you, I don't believe it needs to be utilized all the time, but I do see it also being used as a means for privacy. As someone who cherishes her privacy and I'm not even a celebrity, along with the ID being used as a means of moving along and connecting with humanity, I also see it as being used as a means of blending in for privacy sake. Yes, there is nothing wrong with the world knowing that they are together if they so choose, because they have no need to be ashamed, but in terms of intimacy and being able to keep certain things for themselves, being able to cherish and enjoy their alone time together, or just for sanity and peace sake, I do see the ID as being important. They do not need to be public spectacles, having every move they make in and out of uniform catalogued and remarked upon. I'm sure that can get tiring really fast.

"He should be writing from other parts of the world and country. Parts of the world and US that the media often forgets after a big story breaks, like life after that hurricane, earthquake, during drought"

"Clark can take any subject and do this and he can inform and educate people that there is more to unite us than divide us"

I couldn't agree more with this. That is honestly how I would think Clark Kent would be by now. His focus and interest should be in highlighting the human interest pieces globally. I see him as being an international correspondent speaking from far out regions and territories normally forget or usually only spotlighted during turmoil or something equally negative. He should to be about "giving voice to the voiceless," bringing to light the invisible and marginalized populations, showcasing the highs and lows of humanity. Their triumphs as well as their struggles. The everyday as well as inspirational things that makes humanity what it is. However, as you said with get questionable "investigative" journalism or stories in which he hands over to another character so it can be lauded about her "Pulitzer" winning status (insert eye roll).

There is an opportunity to do so much with the SM and WW characters if DC/WB were interested in telling meaningful stories rather than surface level/superficial ones. Comics didn't always use to be about dumbing things down. Ones upon a time they also challenged readers to think differently, confront their biases, and think deeper.

"while he might be more an expert at the world, he lives in it longer than she has, she can offer that innocence and freshness and amazon passion that even one as himself ( an idealist) can connect with"

In addition to that, I feel that what has been moved away from is that Diana is also supposed to be a wise character (blessed by Athena). Not only is she able to offer a more untainted view of things due to not having lived in 'Man's World' for long she is also able to give one from a place of wisdom. She is a character who would analyze a situation from multiple positions in order to arrive at the best possible solution/conclusion given the circumstance. This is why I take issue with her being portrayed at times a character who dives in head first into battle without thought. As someone who has been trained as a warrior, she would be a person who would be deliberate in whatever move she made, in her thinking, in her decisions. Unfortunately, we hardly get to see that.

Clark and Diana while close to perfection in many ways, aren't perfect. I hate when people difficult to the lazy excuse of them being too perfect as characters and as such are boring. There is a whole plethora of ideas to be explored with them whether as individuals or as a couple. As you rightly stated, they can be very compelling on their own right when written correctly, and we have seen this done in the past. Being the symbols they are supposed to be, they are characters that time and effort should be taken to fully flesh out their stories on a continuous basis.

[Last Son of Krypton]

You know DK3 The Master Race would be perfect to do an animated feature. It would adapt really well. And Supes has some great moments with breaking out the dark universe and fighting Quar's people. He and Bats also patch up their relationship. We'd see Carrie and Lara because they are the next world's Finest. And we see Wonder Momma nurturing baby Jon and kicking ass!

Of course it would be too easy to stay true to the source material for Diana for these people at DCAU who love to take away from her because of their anti smww stance. So like KC , maybe I should be glad it would prob never be done.

To adapt DK3, they should make a DKSA adaptation first, no?

How I wish!!!

Wonder Woman needs to save Superman!!!!

Joking aside if fans want Cavill to continue, people need to realistic.What was done was not enough to capture the hearts of the non fan boys. Fan boys are not the only people big execs want to please. There is a reason why WB won't do a MOS 2. It is too risky. After doing well with WW and AM, why would you want to do a movie sequel that might not even better its first outing? They would want MOS2 to exceed the first and do better to keep the momentum of the movies. Anything that is less if a failure and would disrupt the DCEU that is just beginning to get some buoyancy. So really apart from leaving Superman alone for a decade and ignoring him until they decide to try again with new everything...they can try to do as we all discussed. If he guest spots and is well received, then maybe then...who knows...the way Civil War was an event done around Cap, they could do something like an event with SM and the rest. Until that time...Wonder Woman to me is the best vehicle. Look at the way Dr Strange was in Thor and was so effective. It could be as brief as that or as involved as Hulk was.

WB isn't interested in doing a sequel to MoS, they want to "reboot" the franchise and, according to rumors, the search for a screenwriter is already started months ago. Probably, he'll make an appearance in the Supergirl movie they're writing for almost a year. Who knows?

I'd prefer he'll have a presence in the WW franchise as you suggest, but if they recast I don't see it happening.

[LoveStar]

Year One was supposed to came out in Nov. 2018... I'm still waiting. 😅 I doubt "Golden Child" will come out in time. Sadly, early 2020 is more likely.

LOL OMG... 😱
It kinda seems like there’s no coordination with anything right now.

You know DK3 The Master Race would be perfect to do an animated feature. It would adapt really well. And Supes has some great moments with breaking out the dark universe and fighting Quar's people. He and Bats also patch up their relationship. We'd see Carrie and Lara because they are the next world's Finest. And we see Wonder Momma nurturing baby Jon and kicking ass!

Of course it would be too easy to stay true to the source material for Diana for these people at DCAU who love to take away from her because of their anti smww stance. So like KC , maybe I should be glad it would prob never be done.

DK3 is while not perfect is still very entertaining!
Who wouldn’t jump at the chance to adapt Wonder Woman with a smiling baby strapped to her back kicking ass?!

[LadyP]

Superman would go to the law and expect himself to be put on trial and then if they acquit him, he'd try to find his own absolution...via exile etc. Diana would try to be there for her friend. She would allow him the time and space to grieve, the shoulder to cry on, the space to find himself. In Kingdom Come she gave him his space for 10 years. It is clear she often checked up on him. She never pushed him the moment he lost his wife to take over the world. Diana herself...one man made her change her entire pov in Injustice . The writer of Injustice for all his protestations does not understand them that well imo. He deliberately also seems to manipulate the narrative to blame Diana and makes her more and more brutal. These versions are not SM or WW. They are weak willed and self centered, distorted versions. I like AU versions. Heck I have zero issues about evil or misguided versions but it has to be built properly. To have the same thing happen in a multiverse is boring so this is why you twist an origin, ie like Red Son ...SM raised by Stalin and Diana sympathetic to communism...the adults they grow into make some sense. But Injustice Superman has the same upbringing DC raved about yet a tragedy hits and he goes off the rails and opts to murder...then they dump on an OOC Diana from day one to prod him. It shows an agenda. Not thoughtful writing. If they had in some way built the Injustice characters to becoming dictators in a better way, you would understand it. A sympathetic villain often is sympathetic because we understand why...we don't condone but we can see why. I still don't see why sm or ww in Injustice took the path it did. Made no sense.

In regards to the bolded and underlined part, I am unsurprised. Because it was clear from the onset of the story of Injustice, (all the ones written by Taylor) that he did not care for nor understand Diana. He further confirmed it in his goodbye letter regarding the ending of Injustice. Notice all the characters he mentioned about liking and notice who was glaringly obviously missing. This is why I continue to believe that writers who do not care for nor can they respect the objects in which they are writing about should not write about them. I am so sick and tired of Diana being disrespected and undermined by biased quack writers.

[LadyP]

Even if they use the origin of the clay, the child will be the daughter of a golem made of clay that has an ancient soul dwelling in it, a soul so powerful that has been in gestation in the womb of Gaia itself for millennia! And if they use the version of clay, whose greatest sadness was that of not being able to generate life, to generate children, this child would be a true miracle !!!! A true miracle of love! The two most powerful beings on the planet, condemned to be the only and last of their kind, overcoming the sadness and solitude coming from immortality and being able to generate, through love, new lives, new beings, a new species! Winning through love any barrier, any difference or distance!

Why did this post make me emotional?
You have highlighted one of the reasons why I love and prefer Diana's clay origin. Because it is a testament of a mother's love and yearning that she came to be formed and brought to life. And to have it come full circle with Diana being able to bring forth life from her own womb is truly inspirational, miraculous, and one full of hope. It is simply amazing and wondrous, and the way you captured it in your comment makes me yearn to see this fully captured and expressed in the comics.

[Last Son of Krypton]

LOL OMG... 😱
It kinda seems like there’s no coordination with anything right now.

I've no idea of the reason of the delay. Maybe the art isn't finished. 🤔

DK3 is while not perfect is still very entertaining!
Who wouldn’t jump at the chance to adapt Wonder Woman with a smiling baby strapped to her back kicking ass?!

It also features Batman. That alone make it worthy of an adaptation in DC Animation's eyes. 🤣

[LoveStar]

I definitely should I have reread that panel. It's been a while since I read this and I think I was confusing it with something else.
Couldn't agree more with your assessment. And just as you stated it is how I see the ID being utilized. i think we mentioned this in the recently closed thread. The ID should be used as a means for them to "blend in" if you will and move around undetected so that they are able to walk amongst humanity without being bombarded. Partake in it, observe it, broaden their experience and mindset. Gain an even deeper understanding of the struggles, cares, concerns of the everyday man, woman, child. This is exactly what they should be doing, and why works such as WW: Spirit of Truth and SM: Peace on Earth stand out. They are able to showcase what makes SM and WW the compassionate characters that they are. There willingness to let go of their personal comforts as they seek to not only understand but move among the people they seek to help so that they are better able to serve them. To me, that is Diana, that is Clark. Not the mawkish tepid storylines that we currently get where they are vaunted as being heroic or "hopeful" characters who care, but there is nothing to really show for it or make one believe that there is anything extraordinary about them.
The mindset of the writer, their emotional intelligence, along with their own life experiences in some ways will impact the type of story that is written about these characters.

Yep this was the main conversation in the closed thread. It’s mind boggling that in some certain capacity, it is known exactly what the secret IDs are for, exactly what makes the SMWW dynamic what it is and work in a very positive light. We didn’t make any of this up in a way trying to push some certain head canon or fanon, this is written on page or shown in animation, but all of a sudden all of this is twisted around as not right? However, there is much effort to push things that are quite questionable and contradicting.

We do indeed need stories like this again because the true purpose of the characters is constantly chipping away.

I've no idea of the reason of the delay. Maybe the art isn't finished. 🤔

I thought romita said first issue was finished?

It also features Batman. That alone make it worthy of an adaptation in DC Animation's eyes. 🤣

LOL! Exactly 🤣 But I like that Lara is the one that takes most of the spotlight.

[hellacre]

To adapt DK3, they should make a DKSA adaptation first, no?



.

They could I guess. But DKSA doesn't have the same critical acclaim as DK3. What they could do is fold the ideas from DK2 into DK3. I mean end of the day the only main thing in that leads into DK3 is Lara's existence. We don't need to know about Brainiac and Lex etc and Robin to understand and enjoy DK3.

[LadyP]

When DC will no longer feel satisfied to milk just the DKverse, it will turn to KC too. It's a matter of time. ��





Since WB no longer knows what to do with the Superman character, they will repurpose him as Diana's present day love interest from the 3rd WW film onwards. ��

LOL. I'm fine with that. As long as he is not turned into Steve Trevor 3.0.

Thank God! I really enjoy reading your insightful analysis. �� Like this one...



Perfectly stated as usual, LadyP. Wish that among the people at WB/DC, there's someone that loves and gets the character as you do. Or at least that read here. ��

Awww..shucks. Thanks. Sometimes I feel I care a little too much because I have to fight feeling down with all the shenanigans of DC/WB with these characters.

I have nightmares at the thought of what the current management would do adapting KC. ��

It is the only reason why I am okay with no talks of KC being made into live action any time soon. I honestly shudder to think what would be done to it if managed by the current team...:-/

[LadyP]

Heh that’s true. 🤔 Though shouldn’t it be telling that the current content isn’t being received as expected. Some things are pretty much middling, they should rethink whatever they are doing?

One can only hope with the current team.

When is it supposed to come out? 2020? 😅



WB: "We don't know what to do with Superman."

Patty: "Give him to me, I will find him a better use."

WB: "Which one?"

Patty: "You'll see... hehe"

🤭

Sounds about right.

[LadyP]

Yep this was the main conversation in the closed thread. It’s mind boggling that in some certain capacity, it is known exactly what the secret IDs are for, exactly what makes the SMWW dynamic what it is and work in a very positive light. We didn’t make any of this up in a way trying to push some certain head canon or fanon, this is written on page or shown in animation, but all of a sudden all of this is twisted around as not right? However, there is much effort to push things that are quite questionable and contradicting.

We do indeed need stories like this again because the true purpose of the characters is constantly chipping away.

Exactly. Oh boy! It must be hard work working to intentionally sabotage ones own property such as what DC has been doing with SM and WW for some time. Eroding away at what made these characters what they were. Taking away from them their core and turning them into empty shallow versions of themselves.

[Last Son of Krypton]

They could I guess. But DKSA doesn't have the same critical acclaim as DK3. What they could do is fold the ideas from DK2 into DK3. I mean end of the day the only main thing in that leads into DK3 is Lara's existence. We don't need to know about Brainiac and Lex etc and Robin to understand and enjoy DK3.

You're right. A quick explanation/exposition during the movie would be enough.

LOL. I'm fine with that. As long as he is not turned into Steve Trevor 3.0.

Like having him die again? 😅

Awww..shucks. Thanks. Sometimes I feel I care a little too much because I have to fight feeling down with all the shenanigans of DC/WB with these characters.

We are probably all on the same boat here.

It is the only reason why I am okay with no talks of KC being made into live action anytime soon. I honestly shudder to think what would be done to it if managed by the current team...:-/

Better not think much about it. 😏