Superman and Wonder Woman Appreciation 2019

[Last Son of Krypton]

Yeah, seeing that drastic decline should’ve been a big red flag that maybe that’s not what the suppose target audience wanted and how really bad it was. It was already getting bad with Diana’s mischaracterization with his first arc. We believed maybe he needed to work a bit more to understand her. Nah...

But as I said the previous posts, it didn't really mattered anymore as they decided to blow up everything before any sales decline of the SM/WW book.

But what if the movies aren’t received? DC isn’t in a position to put their eggs in one basket and have the confidence it will do good. That’s what they did with BVS and...welp...

And JL was a complete failure but, on the other hand, the WW movie (and the Steve/Diana pair) was well received. It's complicated, I guess. 🤔 Btw, I think that comics should keep telling their stories without drastically change direction to synch with certain elements of a movie in time for its release. See also my point below...

Should’ve stopped it with Soule. What a waste.

Or better let SM/WW going without interrupting it prematurely. 😉

LOL what great things? Throwing petty jabs and saying rebirth Superman is the version we should love and accept for living out the privileged flag waving American Way or Rebirth Wonder Woman having a mental break down acting like a lost insecure little girl. Yeah sure that’s great. 🙄

I mean... I get that they couldn't say to the readers what's going on, but reassuring SM/WW fans that great things are coming??? Really???

[LoveStar]

More pics from the Avengers: Endgame spoof
Superman-Batman (Roommate’s end game)






https://instagram.com/swaggersharmaa...=1p087gh07d7rl

[hellacre]

The book started declining drastically exactly with the OOC characterization and the awful “truth” storyline.
Even then, the book was being supported in hopes things would change and had the ability to last longer than “Trinity” could.

It continues to go back to...if it was because of sales then ok, it is what it is. If other other concepts worked better, then ok, it is what it is. But that wasn’t and hasn’t been the case and not only that but there’s continued merch which means it’s known to be valuable. Why screw it up?


I remember that but...the execution just wasn’t kicking. Tomasi knew he wasn’t getting Diana’s character, he knew fans had complaints/concerns but didn’t exactly take them into consideration knowing it wouldn’t have mattered anyway.

The real decline was with "Truth" and the "I don't love you anymore" thing, Tomasi first arc still sold around the 40k range.



Because comics don't matter s**t and have to follow the movies?

��

Exactly. I mean if you are a supporter of SMWW book, the premise is about two people trying to adjust to being in a relationship...they happen to be two powerful people, with enormous responsibilities, enemies, far from normal, but they loved each other and Soule ended his run with something of a promise...no matter what life threw at them...they were ready.

Then came the recton of the well liked "You're Strong." "I know." to making a playful / flirty intro into one whereby Diana's character was misrepresented as being rather abrasive. I recall people being annoyed Tomasi changed that and he did not understand Diana's personality as shown in that first issue. I wondered myself if he even read Soule's run or Azzarello's or even Justice League. I kinda assume if you're writing characters new to you, like the new 52 was a reboot, you would at least read the people who helped define them and give them a voice. I think the best he did get her voice was in Truth arc...she was very much loyal, and protective of Clark. But the whole intro to DCYou phase was indeed..."I don't love you anymore." It was the actual advert for SMWW title. It was the subject of blogs and comic sites. Diana was made to look foolish being rejected in the harshest way by a man who was supposed to be caring and kind and who we thought loved her. Can you imagine how the fandom felt? It was like a slap to them. I recall online people were like well if you breaking them up, I'm done. But still the core smww group stayed loyal. We got more crossover that minimized Diana then a bone tossed at them here and there but DC killed new 52 Superman. The issues by Buccellato at least comforted the fans because he opted to go with what transpired with the first meet in Justice League and stuck to a more in character voice for Diana.

I too assume was movie synergy but it is a good question...if movie synergy fails? What then?

This is why I think AU is probably the best we can hope for in that it gets independence. Canon has proven it is subject to the whims of higher ups, mandates and story will always suffer in terms of consistency.

[LoveStar]

But as I said the previous posts, it didn't really mattered anymore as they decided to blow up everything before any sales decline of the SM/WW book.

This will forever not make any sense. But they can keep lower selling books lagging around?

And JL was a complete failure but, on the other hand, the WW movie (and the Steve/Diana pair) was well received. It's complicated, I guess. 🤔 Btw, I think that comics should keep telling their stories without drastically change direction to synch with certain elements of a movie in time for its release. See also my point below...

I give credit to Pine’s acting. However, with comics and anything else, it’s not written well if at all, even now. So yeah, it is very complicated.

That was the problem. Whether a concept works or not in the movies or comics, it should be more of a wait and see approach before changing things. The movies don’t influence much with the comics sales. Maybe a slight temporary boost but it falls a month later.

Or better let SM/WW going without interrupting it prematurely. 😉

Exactly. Let it go how it should’ve, would’ve. If it just had to end, let it end naturally, not force it in such a messy unnecessary manner that now seemed just as is messy and unnecessary.

I mean... I get that they couldn't say to the readers what's going on, but reassuring SM/WW fans that great things are coming??? Really???

Yeah...I would’ve had more respect with being more truthful. LOL the irony in that.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Exactly. I mean if you are a supporter of SMWW book, the premise is about two people trying to adjust to being in a relationship...they happen to be two powerful people, with enormous responsibilities, enemies, far from normal, but they loved each other and Soule ended his run with something of a promise...no matter what life threw at them...they were ready.

Then came the recton of the well liked "You're Strong." "I know." to making a playful / flirty intro into one whereby Diana's character was misrepresented as being rather abrasive. I recall people being annoyed Tomasi changed that and he did not understand Diana's personality as shown in that first issue. I wondered myself if he even read Soule's run or Azzarello's or even Justice League. I kinda assume if you're writing characters new to you, like the new 52 was a reboot, you would at least read the people who helped define them and give them a voice. I think the best he did get her voice was in Truth arc...she was very much loyal, and protective of Clark. But the whole into to DCYou phase was indeed..."I don't love you anymore." It was the actual advert for SMWW title. It was the subject of blogs and comic sites. Diana was made to look foolish being rejected in the harshest way but a man who was supposed to be caring and kind and who we thought loved her. Can you imagine how the fandom felt? It was like a slap to them. I recall online people were like well if you breaking them up, I'm done. But still the core smww group stayed loyal. We got more crossover that minimized Diana then a bone tossed at them here and there but DC killed new 52 Superman. The issues by Buccellato at least comforted the fans because he opted to go with what transpired with the first meet in Justice League and stuck to a more in character voice for Diana.

It could have been a change of characterization in response to criticism of the first arc, or it was simply arrived Clark's turn to act ooc in the series. 😅

I too assume was movie synergy but it is a good question...if movie synergy fails? What then?

This is why I think AU is probably the best we can hope for in that it gets independence. Canon has proven it is subject to the whims of higher ups, mandates and story will always suffer in terms of consistency.

They stick with their decisions and wait the next wave of movies to see what to change... again.

[hellacre]

Sadly, the problem is while the general public adores the concept many in the industry and certain critics don't. These vocal groups are pushing their nostalgic agenda on the rest of us, which is just bad business in an already struggling industry (the comic books themselves).

Well comics can adapt, while listening to the audience or slowly decline. It's funny anytime comics are in a slump the companies take great risk and do something new and it does pay off many a time...be it killing Superman, Kingdom Come or the new 52. It is how you manage these events. You don't keep killing Superman and think it will have the same impact every few years. It won't. Kingdom Come was probably a great opportunity to do more in AU line. It also sewed seeds that DC used. The new 52 as well gave the whole industry a boost and instead of using that momentum, DC opted to back pedal for nostalgia. The odd thing is they have options...the multiverse...yet they would rather ignore it or retcon it to the point you don't even know which verses exist. The multiverse is there to push the envelope than canon won't. It is not there to pander to canon. The moment you do that then you're killing creativity.

DC must learn from Marvel, learn to give fans what they want to see not what time-stagnant nostalgic see for years and years and never get out of the place, Marvel did it on Endgame, gave the fans what they wanted but at the same time introduced the new one... and know what the result was? Marvel is out there breaking records of money and criticism.

Story telling, execution and good casting and chemistry among actors that MCU nailed. They had a plan and patience and respect for source material yet able to make the heroes as you say relevant and the modern audience embrace them. DC needs to follow this. It's funny they kill superman with Doomsday as the one trick pony several times. Yet who are the baddies that making waves in pop culture and social media? Not DD.

It could have been a change of characterization in response to criticism of the first arc, or it was simply arrived Clark's turn to act ooc in the series. ��



They stick with their decisions and wait the next wave of movies to see what to change... again.

True! Clark did the 180!

Waiting for movies to define books that should be a source for fresh idead etc is a bad idea because movies never in the past even made comics sell more copies.

[Last Son of Krypton]

New SM/WW art by Rysketches, Ian Müller Nef and Coleman Lee:

"Finally finished something again. It been too long"



https://www.instagram.com/p/BxFTj5ihd1p/

"Wonder Woman Seduction"



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw-O05fDKSW/

"Wonder Woman & Superman"



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw_FwewllSa/

[hellacre]

Or better let SM/WW going without interrupting it prematurely. ��

All they had to do was make the new 52 part of the multiverse and give it its own book ala Earth 2. So simple. It is such a travesty we will not be seeing new 52 Clark and Diana and their cast.

[LoveStar]

Exactly. I mean if you are a supporter of SMWW book, the premise is about two people trying to adjust to being in a relationship...they happen to be two powerful people, with enormous responsibilities, enemies, far from normal, but they loved each other and Soule ended his run with something of a promise...no matter what life threw at them...they were ready.

Then came the recton of the well liked "You're Strong." "I know." to making a playful / flirty intro into one whereby Diana's character was misrepresented as being rather abrasive. I recall people being annoyed Tomasi changed that and he did not understand Diana's personality as shown in that first issue. I wondered myself if he even read Soule's run or Azzarello's or even Justice League. I kinda assume if you're writing characters new to you, like the new 52 was a reboot, you would at least read the people who helped define them and give them a voice. I think the best he did get her voice was in Truth arc...she was very much loyal, and protective of Clark. But the whole into to DCYou phase was indeed..."I don't love you anymore." It was the actual advert for SMWW title. It was the subject of blogs and comic sites. Diana was made to look foolish being rejected in the harshest way but a man who was supposed to be caring and kind and who we thought loved her. Can you imagine how the fandom felt? It was like a slap to them. I recall online people were like well if you breaking them up, I'm done. But still the core smww group stayed loyal. We got more crossover that minimized Diana then a bone tossed at them here and there but DC killed new 52 Superman. The issues by Buccellato at least comforted the fans because he opted to go with what transpired with the first meet in Justice League and stuck to a more in character voice for Diana.

I too assume was movie synergy but it is a good question...if movie synergy fails? What then?

This is why I think AU is probably the best we can hope for in that it gets independence. Canon has proven it is subject to the whims of higher ups, mandates and story will always suffer in terms of consistency.

It could have been a change of characterization in response to criticism of the first arc, or it was simply arrived Clark's turn to act ooc in the series. 😅

There is no way to ever justify that. Tomasi didn’t know how to write their conflicts as well as wanted drama for the sake drama. At no point was that called for. Even going back to screwing up their first meeting was unnecessary and didn’t make any sense at all. “No conflict, no story” but yet that doesn’t mean create contrivances. I recall also he stated about wanting to be different from Soule...”no picnic and rainbows...” Soule’s run wasn’t that but the irony in that as well. 😒

Like I said. If the book was going to become unrecognizable with OOC nonsense and filler issues, should’ve stopped it when Soule left.

They stick with their decisions and wait the next wave of movies to see what to change... again.

LOL stuck in a corner until the reset button is pressed? Or just keep throwing stuff to see if it’ll stick. That’s a terrible business outlook.

[hellacre]

New SM/WW art by Rysketches, Ian Müller Nef and Coleman Lee:

"Finally finished something again. It been too long"



https://www.instagram.com/p/BxFTj5ihd1p/

"Wonder Woman Seduction"



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw-O05fDKSW/

/[/url]

I love Rysketches!!! This is so sweet. I'd love to see this one day. SMWW being honest and open. Soule did give us the world finding out about them. So he was on track.

And wow that one of Diana in his cape is beautiful!!

[Last Son of Krypton]

This will forever not make any sense. But they can keep lower selling books lagging around?

It's matter of creative decision vs. financial decision.

I give credit to Pine’s acting. However, with comics and anything else, it’s not written well if at all, even now. So yeah, it is very complicated.

DC is prob just waiting to blow him up too if he'll not be in 3rd WW movie. 🤨

That was the problem. Whether a concept works or not in the movies or comics, it should be more of a wait and see approach before changing things. The movies don’t influence much with the comics sales. Maybe a slight temporary boost but it falls a month later.

Waiting for movies to define books that should be a source for fresh idead etc is a bad idea because movies never in the past even made comics sell more copies.

I think they are doing it more because movies (re)shape how majority of people see these characters more than for a lame attempt to boost sales.

[hellacre]

There is no way to ever justify that. Tomasi didn’t know how to write their conflicts as well as wanted drama for the sake drama. At no point was that called for. Even going back to screwing up their first meeting was unnecessary and didn’t make any sense at all. “No conflict, no story” but yet that doesn’t mean create contrivances. I recall also he stated about wanting to be different from Soule...”no picnic and rainbows...” Soule’s run wasn’t that but the irony in that as well. ��

Like I said. If the book was going to become unrecognizable with OOC nonsense and filler issues, should’ve stopped it when Soule left.

Soule's run of SMWW, New 52 SM, new 52 WW...nothing about these books had picnics and rainbows. If anything traditionalists whined the amazons were too dark, disliked daughte rof Zeus or SM was not the nice but dim boyscout they accustomed to , Kents were dead etc. Ironically he did picnics and rainbows elsewhere.

[Last Son of Krypton]

SM/WW toys pics:

"teeKeez giveaway at druid’s keep DK Collectibles for #fcbd2019 #superman #wonderwoman."



https://www.instagram.com/p/BxCZFNuFPtP/

"Great couple for a walk 😉 Spring is in full swing, everything is blooming outside, great time for photos"



https://www.instagram.com/p/BwzC-6Hhq2S/

"Glamping by the Sand Dunes"



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bww3-MyDZmw/

[LoveStar]

Well comics can adapt, while listening to the audience or slowly decline. It's funny anytime comics are in a slump the companies take great risk and do something new and it does pay off many a time...be it killing Superman, Kingdom Come or the new 52. It is how you manage these events. You don't keep killing Superman and think it will have the same impact every few years. It won't. Kingdom Come was probably a great opportunity to do more in AU line. It also sewed seeds that DC used. The new 52 as well gave the whole industry a boost and instead of using that momentum, DC opted to back pedal for nostalgia. The odd thing is they have options...the multiverse...yet they would rather ignore it or retcon it to the point you don't even know which verses exist. The multiverse is there to push the envelope than canon won't. It is not there to pander to canon. The moment you do that then you're killing creativity.

I don’t get why they are trying to force this one option thing. It’s not helping at all.

Story telling, execution and good casting and chemistry among actors that MCU nailed. They had a plan and patience and respect for source material yet able to make the heroes as you say relevant and the modern audience embrace them. DC needs to follow this. It's funny they kill superman with Doomsday as the one trick pony several times. Yet who are the baddies that making waves in pop culture and social media? Not DD.

Exactly. Superman’s death has become such a shallow concept. That makes him the greatest or most inspirational? Nah. It’s the journey and sacrifices. Superman doesn’t exactly do much of that if at all.

New SM/WW art by Rysketches, Ian Müller Nef and Coleman Lee:

"Finally finished something again. It been too long"



https://www.instagram.com/p/BxFTj5ihd1p/

OH I LOVE THIS!!!!

Kal and Diana been defining the “just friends” excuse for years LOL And even this is a thing in reality as well. So another very relatable situation that can be explored with the right creative team of course.
Seriously this would be such a fun storyline because it’s been an idea already.

All they had to do was make the new 52 part of the multiverse and give it its own book ala Earth 2. So simple. It is such a travesty we will not be seeing new 52 Clark and Diana and their cast.

Why exactly wasn’t this done? The new52 brought its on thing and defined itself regardless. Elements were worth keeping and had the ability to tell new stories

It's matter of creative decision vs. financial decision.

But SMWW was both a successful creative and financial decision? 🤔

I think they are doing it more because movies (re)shape how majority of people see these characters more than for a lame attempt to boost sales.

But what if the “shaping” isn’t well received? Or if it’s temporary hype all to be forgotten by the movie audience?

[hellacre]

SM/WW toys pics:

"teeKeez giveaway at druid’s keep DK Collectibles for #fcbd2019 #superman #wonderwoman."



https://www.instagram.com/p/BxCZFNuFPtP/

"Great couple for a walk �� Spring is in full swing, everything is blooming outside, great time for photos"



https://www.instagram.com/p/BwzC-6Hhq2S/

"Glamping by the Sand Dunes"



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bww3-MyDZmw/

LOL...cute and it works for stuff like this but all I keep thinking is Superman really needs to lose those trunks.

This putting SMWW together as with the Teekeez and so many other toys and merch...I'd like to know what DC marketing talk about when it comes to approving these things. And why is DC being so stubborn at the comic book level.