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  1. #4741

  2. #4742
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    It’s an obvious and way more believable take than the bait and switch, Clark being a wuss and having identity issues. Again it’s just totally contradictory and counterproductive to have these contrived narratives but outside it’s written as something so much more natural.
    By FAR.
    Not only did they have Clark chicken out, but they ended up doing more harm to his character than good in order to push the status quo. They had him appearing insecure to an almost pathetic extent. His obsession to assimilate as if he were only human led him to not pursue a relationship with the one woman who truly and absolutely understood him because she could also empathize. The one woman whom we saw over and over again that he was truly vulnerable with and was able to trust implicitly, more so than the wife who is supposedly “his be all and end all.” 😒

    The current status quo as far as I am concerned, has had the taint of Clark’s obsession to assimilate as a human and be “normal”, whatever that means. It’s a reflection of his desire to pretend to just be Clark Kent, while ignoring the rest of himself. As a child of immigrant parents myself, who at one point had to grapple with varying cultural identities because in one crowd I was seen as one thing and in a different crowd as another, that whole “Clark is who I am” in order to pretend to just be human, while ignoring the legacy and heritage his biological parents basically sacrificed their life’s blood to ensure he was able to retain along with given a chance to live, leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It is a turn off that along with being diminishing is also insulting. Many who have experienced the reality of being in a society that attempts to waterdown or erase aspects of a person’s cultural identity that differs with the dominant culture can attest to the reality of how problematic assimilating at the cost of ones heritage and identity can be. There is no problem in adapting to a new environment, it is a necessity of life and necessary for growth. However it differs greatly from assimilation. History and present racial and ethnic conflicts continue to show us over and over again the detrimental effects of prejudice against cultural and racial differences. Presently in the U.S, we are still reeling from yet another mass shooting which stemmed from prejudice. For Superman, a character that was once symbolic of the ultimate immigrant story, a defender of all, a character who did not use to shun his Kryptonian heritage, to be a character who is now shown as being so insecure in who he is, that he seeks validity and acceptance from a human love interest in order to feel human or “normal” is problematic for me. He has shunned, as well as recently castigated the one woman, Diana, who saw him for all of who he was and called him by the name given to him by his birth parents - that was reflective of his identity and heritage. But no, we are expected to accept it as romantic when he denies Kal-El, so he can be Clark Kent with the other female. No thanks. 🙄

    Diana used to call Clark, Clark, Superman, and Kal based on the environment and situation. I found that significant. In a way it was acknowledging at different instances he was more one than the other, but it also showed that she saw all these parts.

    The description of the SMWW plus collectibles set actually says as such as well:

    “Wonder Woman and Superman always seemed to have a special understanding. They are both, by far, the most physically powerful heroes on Earth. And they are both outsiders. This understanding has resulted in a close friendship between the two, and has sometimes evolved into something more...”

    It isn’t that hard to respect, embrace and accept this concept for what it is.
    This is why I find it so hard to accept the status quo and the blatant diminishing and contradictory narratives pushed against SMWW. It is so myopic.

    The intransigent desire to hold onto the status quo at all costs to the detriment of these two main characters continues to baffle and appall me. I know that ‘status quo bias’ is a very real thing, but this is just gross.

    It would be different if these narratives were helping but it’s not as we know and see with the current state of things. The “safe” zone has caused stagnation. It’s the same thing over and over again.
    Exactly. But the response has been to just throw Batman in it, because more Batman makes everything better as far as some folks in DC are concerned. 🤣🤣
    One wonders if they even care for these characters at times…::sigh::

    Superman and Wonder Woman are the main two characters that don’t need “crutches”. Their motivations should strictly come from their own hearts not because of another individual. They don’t see themselves as Gods, ironically, it’s those who try to limit them and make them conform to mortal standard comfort that emphasize on their godliness on top of making it seem like being different/other worldly is a burden or bad.
    Please say that again. Especially that last part. But you know detractors need something to latch onto, even if they need to make it up and completely contradict the very essence and purpose of Superman and Wonder Woman as individual characters.
    It’s amazing when I reflect on a lot of what has been done to these characters just so to justify a certain pairing. Things that don’t move the story along. Doesn’t inspire. Doesn’t add to nor does it build upon the characters. Incredible. SMH


    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    It's hard to be a SM/WW fan, not just for the treatment of the pair but for the individual characters too.
    Agreed.
    It is the treatment of the characters individually just so to maintain status quo that is the most astounding to me.


    I just don't like having to read too much to catch up.
    Understood.
    For me, I actually like that at times, if it means that as I am reading to catch up with the story, it is being updated so that I do not need to wait long for updates. 😏

    Yep. I mentioned before that I read 10 chapters for each long fanfics. You may have missed my response.
    Oh, nice. I completely missed that. Sorry. I try to keep up with the thread, but I still miss stuff. Whoops.


    Keep sharing. I appreciate your contribution to the thread. 🤗
    Definitely. Thank you for that sentiment. I appreciate that. 😊

    On that note, there is also another story that I am currently following, but on AO3. It is an eventual SMWW and loosely follows the Injustice storyline. The story seems to be mainly told from Bruce’s pov, so some may or may not care for that. However, as the story moves along we get snippets of Clark and Diana’s pov every now and then. Details below.

    Story: A Light In The Dark
    Last edited by LadyP; 08-15-2019 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Spelling, Grammar, etc.

  3. #4743
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    By FAR.
    Not only did they have Clark chicken out, but they ended up doing more harm to his character than good in order to push the status quo. They had him appearing insecure to an almost pathetic extent. His obsession to assimilate as if he were only human led him to not pursue a relationship with the one woman who truly and absolutely understood him because she could also empathize. The one woman whom we saw over and over again that he was truly vulnerable with and was able to trust implicitly, more so than the wife who is supposedly “his be all and end all.” 😒

    The current status quo as far as I am concerned, has had the taint of Clark’s obsession to assimilate as a human and be “normal”, whatever that means. It’s a reflection of his desire to pretend to just be Clark Kent, while ignoring the rest of himself. As a child of immigrant parents myself, who at one point had to grapple with varying cultural identities because in one crowd I was seen as one thing and in a different crowd as another, that whole “Clark is who I am” in order to pretend to just be human, while ignoring the legacy and heritage his biological parents basically sacrificed their life’s blood to ensure he was able to retain along with given a chance to live, leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It is a turn off that along with being diminishing is also insulting. Many who have experienced the reality of being in a society that attempts to waterdown or erase aspects of a person’s cultural identity that differs with the dominant culture can attest to the reality of how problematic assimilating at the cost of ones heritage and identity can be. There is no problem in adapting to a new environment, it is a necessity of life and necessary for growth. However it differs greatly from assimilation. History and present racial and ethnic conflicts continue to show us over and over again the detrimental effects of prejudice against cultural and racial differences. Presently in the U.S, we are still reeling from yet another mass shooting which stemmed from prejudice. For Superman, a character that was once symbolic of the ultimate immigrant story, a defender of all, a character who did not use to shun his Kryptonian heritage, to be a character who is now shown as being so insecure in who he is, that he seeks validity and acceptance from a human love interest in order to feel human or “normal” is problematic for me. He has shunned, as well as recently castigated the one woman, Diana, who saw him for all of who he was and called him by the name given to him by his birth parents - that was reflective of his identity and heritage. But no, we are expected to accept it as romantic when he denies Kal-El, so he can be Clark Kent with the other female. No thanks. 🙄

    Diana used to call Clark, Clark, Superman, and Kal based on the environment and situation. I found that significant. In a way it was acknowledging at different instances he was more one than the other, but it also showed that she saw all these parts.

    This is the sad truth. Superman supposedly being the ultimate immigrant yet lives in the comfort of lies and secrets for not just the feeling of supposed “human normalcy” but American, privileged normalcy is utter nonsense and offensive. He has the luxury of hiding and pretending to be a regular American man while he is an alien from another planet. In reality, POCs can’t hide who they are. Life is actually a struggle and an uphill battle to adjust, to accept and be embraced. What exactly kind of message does that send when actually analyzing and reading between the line of what’s being written? Superman flag waving, trying to pretend to be Pa Kent 2.0, glorifying American history, while resenting his heritage.

    Diana is a woman of absolute truth. Not the half truths so many have accepted from these half assed contradicting narratives. She makes him see the absolute truth and pushes him to live it. If he is that much of wanting to be “normal”, he should give up the powers and stop wearing the \S/.
    Superman is not suppose to live a “normal” life. His “normal” is to make the ordinary “extraordinary”. Also, the title of the book isn’t “Clark Kent”, it’s “Superman”.

    Another ironic thing is that new52 this was the main topic tackled about the identities and secrets. They came to an equal understanding without having to pretend or choose one identity over the other. It was about learning how to balance it all. This is what we do in real life. While this is fantasy/fiction, things have evolved to have a dash of “realism” and what would makes these characters resonate in modern times especially in terms of relating to diversity. Diana understood the need for “privacy” and Clark understood living his truth unapologetically. He was all of himself, one man whether Diana called him Superman, Kal, or Clark. And exactly, she would call him by whichever name, depending on the environment. Like I said, that doesn’t make them above or godly, it just makes them, them. What’s so hard about that to understand? Why would that be deemed a bad thing?

    This is why I find it so hard to accept the status quo and the blatant diminishing and contradictory narratives pushed against SMWW. It is so myopic.

    The intransigent desire to hold onto the status quo at all costs to the detriment of these two main characters continues to baffle and appall me. I know that ‘status quo bias’ is a very real thing, but this is just gross.
    Both characters are stagnant and aren’t in a good state even with the supposed classic status quos 😅

    Exactly. But the response has been for to just throw Batman in it, because more Batman makes everything better as far as some folks in DC are concerned. 🤣🤣
    One wonders if they even care for these characters at times…::sigh::
    There are concepts being refused for bias narratives that are not making things better...I’m not sure what king of logic this is.

    Obviously with the state of things still dwindling, throwing Batman everywhere still is not the answer.

    Please say that again. Especially that last part. But you know detractors need something to latach unto, even if they need to make it up and completely contradict the very essence and purpose of Superman and Wonder Woman as individual characters.
    It’s amazing when I reflect on a lot of what has been done to these characters just so to justify a certain pairing. Things that don’t move the story along. Doesn’t inspire. Doesn’t add to nor does it build upon the characters. Incredible. SMH
    I’m not sure how much more proof we need that shows every thing said against SMWW has been debunked and these bias narratives can’t be taken serious. The truth itself of how important and special the dynamic between SMWW is being constantly published in encyclopedias and known to the general audience. It’s just all counterproductive, backwards and unnecessary.

  4. #4744
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    Understood.
    For me, I actually like that at times, if it means that as I am reading to catch up with the story, it is being updated so that I do not need to wait long for updates. 😏
    It's a matter of personal preferences. 😉

    Oh, nice. I completely missed that. Sorry. I try to keep up with the thread, but I still miss stuff. Whoops.
    Easily found my comment (Google Search is my friend 😉 ):

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Today, I read 10 chapters for each fanfics (just because some are really brief, lol). Still not much happened. Should I jump to later chapters?
    Btw, I was almost starting to get used to see you posting again regularly before you went back to be more sporadic. 😅

    Definitely. Thank you for that sentiment. I appreciate that. 😊
    You're welcome. 🤗

    On that note, there is also another story that I am currently following, but on AO3. It is an eventual SMWW and [b][u]loosely[b][i] follows the Injustice storyline. The story seems to be mainly told from Bruce’s pov, so some may or may not care for that. However, as the story moves along we get snippets of Clark and Diana’s pov every now and then. Details below.

    Story: A Light In The Dark
    Oh, this one looks it'll be a really looooong journey to follow.

  5. #4745
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    SuperWonder Cosplay

    “Dynamic duo! 🦸🏻*♂️🦸🏻*♀️ Duo de choc! 🤜💥🤛”

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    https://www.instagram.com/p/B1JQ7ySjMND/

    “Zod’s defeat”

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  6. #4746
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    This is the sad truth. Superman supposedly being the ultimate immigrant yet lives in the comfort of lies and secrets for not just the feeling of supposed “human normalcy” but American, privileged normalcy is utter nonsense and offensive. He has the luxury of hiding and pretending to be a regular American man while he is an alien from another planet. In reality, POCs can’t hide who they are. Life is actually a struggle and an uphill battle to adjust, to accept and be embraced. What exactly kind of message does that send when actually analyzing and reading between the line of what’s being written? Superman flag waving, trying to pretend to be Pa Kent 2.0, glorifying American history, while resenting his heritage.
    The bolded part, but especially the underlined. The message that it sends is why I continue to have a problem with that whole “Clark Kent is who I am” issue. What else is there to be said that hasn’t already been said. It is an irresponsible narrative as far as I am concerned.

    I have no issue with Clark emulating Pa Kent. Pa Kent taught him a lot of valuable life lessons that made him into the man that he is. The issue is when Clark/Superman/Kal acts like Clark Kent is the only aspect of himself that matters.

    Diana is a woman of absolute truth. Not the half truths so many have accepted from these half assed contradicting narratives. She makes him see the absolute truth and pushes him to live it. If he is that much of wanting to be “normal”, he should give up the powers and stop wearing the \S/.
    Superman is not suppose to live a “normal” life. His “normal” is to make the ordinary “extraordinary”. Also, the title of the book isn’t “Clark Kent”, it’s “Superman”.
    Exactly, regarding the bolded. Diana was once the literal Goddess of Truth. Truth is something that is important to her and guides her actions. When Clark has been in a moral dilemma or in need of guidance in the past, who was one of the people he sought out for advice as well as his subconscious conjuring up? Was it not Diana? Sigh..

    Another ironic thing is that new52 this was the main topic tackled about the identities and secrets. They came to an equal understanding without having to pretend or choose one identity over the other. It was about learning how to balance it all. This is what we do in real life. While this is fantasy/fiction, things have evolved to have a dash of “realism” and what would makes these characters resonate in modern times especially in terms of relating to diversity. Diana understood the need for “privacy” and Clark understood living his truth unapologetically. He was all of himself, one man whether Diana called him Superman, Kal, or Clark. And exactly, she would call him by whichever name, depending on the environment. Like I said, that doesn’t make them above or godly, it just makes them, them. What’s so hard about that to understand? Why would that be deemed a bad thing?
    Precisely. Irrespective of what is currently claimed, this is true of Clark and Diana. It is why their connection is meaningful, compelling and important.

    Those who try to put a negative spin on it do from a place of either spite or ignorance of its value.


    Both characters are stagnant and aren’t in a good state even with the supposed classic status quos 😅

    There are concepts being refused for bias narratives that are not making things better...I’m not sure what king of logic this is.

    Obviously with the state of things still dwindling, throwing Batman everywhere still is not the answer.
    I laugh with amusement and bemusement because of all the petty and spiteful attacks against SMWW and its fans in order to re-establish the status quo, and also at the utter clueless and directionless actions we continue to witness as they seem to be yielding no real positive results.
    Superman and Wonder Woman are a shadow of themselves. But as has been stated, that doesn’t matter as long as they are with their “human tethers.” LOL. SMH.



    I’m not sure how much more proof we need that shows every thing said against SMWW has been debunked and these bias narratives can’t be taken serious. The truth itself of how important and special the dynamic between SMWW is being constantly published in encyclopedias and known to the general audience. It’s just all counterproductive, backwards and unnecessary.
    Proof is only needed where there is genuine doubt. Not where there is a deliberate attempt to warp something into what it isn’t. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  7. #4747
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    By FAR.
    Not only did they have Clark chicken out, but they ended up doing more harm to his character than good in order to push the status quo. They had him appearing insecure to an almost pathetic extent. His obsession to assimilate as if he were only human led him to not pursue a relationship with the one woman who truly and absolutely understood him because she could also empathize. The one woman whom we saw over and over again that he was truly vulnerable with and was able to trust implicitly, more so than the wife who is supposedly “his be all and end all.” 😒

    The current status quo as far as I am concerned, has had the taint of Clark’s obsession to assimilate as a human and be “normal”, whatever that means. It’s a reflection of his desire to pretend to just be Clark Kent, while ignoring the rest of himself. As a child of immigrant parents myself, who at one point had to grapple with varying cultural identities because in one crowd I was seen as one thing and in a different crowd as another, that whole “Clark is who I am” in order to pretend to just be human, while ignoring the legacy and heritage his biological parents basically sacrificed their life’s blood to ensure he was able to retain along with given a chance to live, leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It is a turn off that along with being diminishing is also insulting. Many who have experienced the reality of being in a society that attempts to waterdown or erase aspects of a person’s cultural identity that differs with the dominant culture can attest to the reality of how problematic assimilating at the cost of ones heritage and identity can be. There is no problem in adapting to a new environment, it is a necessity of life and necessary for growth. However it differs greatly from assimilation. History and present racial and ethnic conflicts continue to show us over and over again the detrimental effects of prejudice against cultural and racial differences. Presently in the U.S, we are still reeling from yet another mass shooting which stemmed from prejudice. For Superman, a character that was once symbolic of the ultimate immigrant story, a defender of all, a character who did not use to shun his Kryptonian heritage, to be a character who is now shown as being so insecure in who he is, that he seeks validity and acceptance from a human love interest in order to feel human or “normal” is problematic for me. He has shunned, as well as recently castigated the one woman, Diana, who saw him for all of who he was and called him by the name given to him by his birth parents - that was reflective of his identity and heritage. But no, we are expected to accept it as romantic when he denies Kal-El, so he can be Clark Kent with the other female. No thanks. 🙄
    One thing I love about Diana, more often in the pre-flashpoint version but also present in new 52, is the fact that she celebrates and honors her culture, that she tries to exchange experiences and teachings with the world of men, pleading for the evolution of both societies together ... unlike Superman who seems to hide everything from Krypton (culture, science, history, legacy). Beside Diana he would have the right incentive to be able to pass on the experiences of his people and thus keep their memory alive and present in the evolution of the Earth. I wonder how many peoples have disappeared from the face of the earth and we will never know because the memory of their existence is gone with their last representative ... only past knowledge, the story told remains alive and keeps these people alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    This is the sad truth. Superman supposedly being the ultimate immigrant yet lives in the comfort of lies and secrets for not just the feeling of supposed “human normalcy” but American, privileged normalcy is utter nonsense and offensive. He has the luxury of hiding and pretending to be a regular American man while he is an alien from another planet. In reality, POCs can’t hide who they are. Life is actually a struggle and an uphill battle to adjust, to accept and be embraced. What exactly kind of message does that send when actually analyzing and reading between the line of what’s being written? Superman flag waving, trying to pretend to be Pa Kent 2.0, glorifying American history, while resenting his heritage.

    Diana is a woman of absolute truth. Not the half truths so many have accepted from these half assed contradicting narratives. She makes him see the absolute truth and pushes him to live it. If he is that much of wanting to be “normal”, he should give up the powers and stop wearing the \S/.
    Superman is not suppose to live a “normal” life. His “normal” is to make the ordinary “extraordinary”. Also, the title of the book isn’t “Clark Kent”, it’s “Superman”.
    I wonder what is normal? It is normal for the lion to eat meat, for Zebra it is not ... for fish it is normal to breathe underwater, for humans not ... normality is a very restrictive environment... a man who can fly, it is invulnerable and have heat vision will never be normal... he is no longer fits the constraints of general normality... normal would be for him to accept himself as he is and celebrate it.

  8. #4748
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    It's a matter of personal preferences. 😉
    LOL. That is correct.

    Easily found my comment (Google Search is my friend 😉 ):
    I said I was sorry. 😩
    (That’s what happens when one is at work “multitasking”...shhh don’t tell &#128579

    Btw, I was almost starting to get used to see you posting again regularly before you went back to be more sporadic. 😅
    Sigh. Yeah. It is about to become even more sporadic soon.


    You're welcome. 🤗.
    😊

    Oh, this one looks it'll be a really looooong journey to follow.
    LOL.
    Yeah. As long as the journey is worth it, I’m buckled in for the ride.

  9. #4749
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Bon Appétit... 😋

    "My late night homemade of these super heroes characters steam buns for Kayden’s tomorrow breakfast. Gonna surprise him with these Superman & Wonder Woman steam buns by tomorrow 🥰⁣"



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  10. #4750
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    The bolded part, but especially the underlined. The message that it sends is why I continue to have a problem with that whole “Clark Kent is who I am” issue. What else is there to be said that hasn’t already been said. It is an irresponsible narrative as far as I am concerned.

    I have no issue with Clark emulating Pa Kent. Pa Kent taught him a lot of valuable life lessons that made him into the man that he is. The issue is when Clark/Superman/Kal acts like Clark Kent is the only aspect of himself that matters.
    Yes! The problem overall is going to the extremes trying to justify even the outdated “Clark Kent” big doofus, loser characterization as well.

    Exactly, regarding the bolded. Diana was once the literal Goddess of Truth. Truth is something that is important to her and guides her actions. When Clark has been in a moral dilemma or in need of guidance in the past, who was one of the people he sought out for advice as well as his subconscious conjuring up? Was it not Diana? Sigh..
    Exactly! This isn’t left field, head canons/fanons, or revisionist history. We’ve seen multiple times Diana showing Clark a clearer, unique perspective of things and always the one who’s there not to baby him but make him man up.


    Precisely. Irrespective of what is currently claimed, this is true of Clark and Diana. It is why their connection is meaningful, compelling and important.

    Those who try to put a negative spin on it do from a place of either spite or ignorance of its value.
    Try to form a negative spin on their connection while trying to take it and use it to force other dynamics that it clearly does not work for 😅

    I laugh with amusement and bemusement because of all the petty and spiteful attacks against SMWW and its fans in order to re-establish the status quo, and also at the utter clueless and directionless actions we continue to witness as they seem to be yielding no real positive results.
    Superman and Wonder Woman are a shadow of themselves. But as has been stated, that doesn’t matter as long as they are with their “human tethers.” LOL. SMH.
    If everything fine and dandy with the old status quos and SMWW wasn’t the success it was(and still is) and hadn’t established what it has and made the impact, that’s one thing. If both old and new status quos succeeds obviously why not be open to all options. But the option chosen was one that made no sense what so ever and put business in a dead in corner. Not only cutting a concept that has shown value, but alienated potential new fans in the process then backpedalled to outdated concepts and narratives that only satisfies an already shrinking demo and doesn’t move anything forward. Superman and Wonder Woman are also losing over interest, especially Superman.

    Proof is only needed where there is genuine doubt. Not where there is a deliberate attempt to warp something into what it isn’t. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    True!

  11. #4751
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    I said I was sorry. 😩
    (That’s what happens when one is at work “multitasking”...shhh don’t tell 🙃 )
    It's ok.
    (Don't worry, your secret is safe with me, lol 😉 )

    Sigh. Yeah. It is about to become even more sporadic soon.
    Sad to ear. 😢 I guess we'll see you again more frequetly during the Christmas holidays.

    LOL.
    Yeah. As long as the journey is worth it, I’m buckled in for the ride.
    It's not just WB/DC, even fanfic writers want to test SM/WW fans' patience. 😅

  12. #4752
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    By FAR.
    Not only did they have Clark chicken out, but they ended up doing more harm to his character than good in order to push the status quo. They had him appearing insecure to an almost pathetic extent. His obsession to assimilate as if he were only human led him to not pursue a relationship with the one woman who truly and absolutely understood him because she could also empathize. The one woman whom we saw over and over again that he was truly vulnerable with and was able to trust implicitly, more so than the wife who is supposedly “his be all and end all.” ��

    The current status quo as far as I am concerned, has had the taint of Clark’s obsession to assimilate as a human and be “normal”, whatever that means. It’s a reflection of his desire to pretend to just be Clark Kent, while ignoring the rest of himself. As a child of immigrant parents myself, who at one point had to grapple with varying cultural identities because in one crowd I was seen as one thing and in a different crowd as another, that whole “Clark is who I am” in order to pretend to just be human, while ignoring the legacy and heritage his biological parents basically sacrificed their life’s blood to ensure he was able to retain along with given a chance to live, leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It is a turn off that along with being diminishing is also insulting. Many who have experienced the reality of being in a society that attempts to waterdown or erase aspects of a person’s cultural identity that differs with the dominant culture can attest to the reality of how problematic assimilating at the cost of ones heritage and identity can be. There is no problem in adapting to a new environment, it is a necessity of life and necessary for growth. However it differs greatly from assimilation. History and present racial and ethnic conflicts continue to show us over and over again the detrimental effects of prejudice against cultural and racial differences. Presently in the U.S, we are still reeling from yet another mass shooting which stemmed from prejudice. For Superman, a character that was once symbolic of the ultimate immigrant story, a defender of all, a character who did not use to shun his Kryptonian heritage, to be a character who is now shown as being so insecure in who he is, that he seeks validity and acceptance from a human love interest in order to feel human or “normal” is problematic for me. He has shunned, as well as recently castigated the one woman, Diana, who saw him for all of who he was and called him by the name given to him by his birth parents - that was reflective of his identity and heritage. But no, we are expected to accept it as romantic when he denies Kal-El, so he can be Clark Kent with the other female. No thanks. ��

    Diana used to call Clark, Clark, Superman, and Kal based on the environment and situation. I found that significant. In a way it was acknowledging at different instances he was more one than the other, but it also showed that she saw all these parts.




    Well said! You know SMWW was ahead of its time. It also encompasses the global changes that has happened to the world in the last decades. We are a more mixed world, and yet we are no more tolerant of others ( who are the same species by the way) because of their race, religion, orientation. You and I can be born in a place but then be told we are outsiders. Many of us can look the same but still be told we are not equal. Many smww fans are cosmopolitan, as we have PROVEN over and over on this thread...all different backgrounds... and many foreigners and they can relate to the outsider aspect. You can feel like an outsider even in your own family, school, town, city, state, country etc. Anyone can get bullied too and anyone can be an inspiration. No matter where you are from. This is why SMWW appeals across various racial, religious, orientation, age groups etc. I have seen gay SMWW couples, Black ones, Indian ones, north Asian, south Asian, American, European, Mediterranean, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Latin ones and I can go on...I have rarely seen that for other traditional couples. So anyone trying to degrade our pairing, who are the best examples in DC for kindness, compassion and the more positive aspects we all aspire to, to try to suggest they will turn evil base on their race, species, dna are talking nonsense.

    It unfortunately is the way certain groups speak these days when they feel threatened or want to simply want to find a scape goat. And Diana's heritage is always attacked. It is funny detractors cannot make up their minds. One minute she is too much an outsider for Clark. The other she is supposedly some Nazi in the making if she pairs up with him and will make him into a fascist. Or one minute she and Clark are too perfect looking so they should not be together. But ironically the people the humans they want to pair them with are hardly minorities suffering from xenophobia or racism etc, some represent privilege, and most look very much like models too. I do not know of any actor or actress cast as ugly in the hero genre. No one whines about Barda/Scott genetics or Mera/Arthur's looks or Batcat's coloring or Ollie/Dinah good looks etc. What has always mattered about with Clark and Diana has been their personalities and outlooks and the way they treat others. And this need to undermine them as individuals that they cannot be who they are unless they dating one person to protect a status quo is one of the worse troupes that I ever came across. It does not humanize them. It makes them weak willed people with powers with shaky a moral core. Not heroes. We have plenty people...humans with wealth and privilege and power who have shown they can be destroyers of humanity. So where you come from or what you look like does not always mean you gonna be good or evil. It boils down to how you live as well as your choices. Because yr mom and dad and yr home town does not define you either as you grow or change over time. Some of the greatest humanitarians heed the call to go to minster to people who are not even their own race or religion. It's what it in your heart and your mind. And to test a man or woman's real mettle and will and heart, take away everything from them and see what they do. They might fall because it is natural to stumble and this is what unites us as beings...we are all flawed and make mistakes...but a strong person eventually will pick themselves up and wipe off the mud and grow and become better for it. I don't expect SMWW to be perfect and not make errors but I don't expect them to grow evil because they can't bang one civilian.

    eg Notice no matter where DC put Batman or do with him...they can drag him through crap ...he comes out smelling of roses. Because they respect him, admire him and KNOW he will always be there for them, even at the cost of his own happiness. And if anyone loves him they get it. Same should be for SM and WW.

  13. #4753
    Fantastic Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deiasilva10 View Post
    One thing I love about Diana, more often in the pre-flashpoint version but also present in new 52, is the fact that she celebrates and honors her culture, that she tries to exchange experiences and teachings with the world of men, pleading for the evolution of both societies together ... unlike Superman who seems to hide everything from Krypton (culture, science, history, legacy). Beside Diana he would have the right incentive to be able to pass on the experiences of his people and thus keep their memory alive and present in the evolution of the Earth. I wonder how many peoples have disappeared from the face of the earth and we will never know because the memory of their existence is gone with their last representative … only past knowledge, the story told remains alive and keeps these people alive.
    Diana is someone who celebrates culture and history, and loves learning. A cultural exchange is but one way of bridging gaps between people. It is enriching and allows for growth on both sides. I like Diana in the role of ambassador as well as teacher. It fits that aspect of her that wants to pass on knowledge and betterment to a society.

    Like you said Superman with Wonder Woman would broaden his horizon on so many aspects, especially intellectually and philosophically. I don’t see her not encouraging Clark to use some of the knowledge from Krypton that are less likely to be misused by humanity, so to help improve the quality of life.

    I want to see a Superman who really starts being about the everyman/woman again. Not one who is busy creating ways to change his physical appearance to give him a more “ethnic” look last I heard so he could continue to live his lie. 🙄 Or one too busy creating an eternity potion for only one person ::double eye-roll::

    I want a Superman actively seeking ways to find solutions for the many ailments that plague humanity given how evolved Krypton was, and the resources available to him. He could be bioengineering crops so they are able to be produced in all weather seasons, even droughts. Therefore, those who live in climates prone to severe weather extremes and where starvation is an actual epidemic, can have a source of sustenance always available. Those are the kind of acts I want to read about Superman doing.


    I wonder what is normal? It is normal for the lion to eat meat, for Zebra it is not ... for fish it is normal to breathe underwater, for humans not ... normality is a very restrictive environment... a man who can fly, it is invulnerable and have heat vision will never be normal... he is no longer fits the constraints of general normality… normal would be for him to accept himself as he is and celebrate it.
    Exactly. This is a question I always ask when I hear normal. By what metrics is “normal” being judged? Even humans themselves do not have a standard normal. So how can a being lightyears advanced in biology be so myopic to make such statements?

    Superman is not a bumbling idiot. Neither is he just a hunk of muscles incapable of real thought processes and self-initiated actions. He needs to stop being limited to elevate a secondary character. 🙄

  14. #4754
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    Yes! The problem overall is going to the extremes trying to justify even the outdated “Clark Kent” big doofus, loser characterization as well.



    Exactly! This isn’t left field, head canons/fanons, or revisionist history. We’ve seen multiple times Diana showing Clark a clearer, unique perspective of things and always the one who’s there not to baby him but make him man up.




    Try to form a negative spin on their connection while trying to take it and use it to force other dynamics that it clearly does not work for ��



    If everything fine and dandy with the old status quos and SMWW wasn’t the success it was(and still is) and hadn’t established what it has and made the impact, that’s one thing. If both old and new status quos succeeds obviously why not be open to all options. But the option chosen was one that made no sense what so ever and put business in a dead in corner. Not only cutting a concept that has shown value, but alienated potential new fans in the process then backpedalled to outdated concepts and narratives that only satisfies an already shrinking demo and doesn’t move anything forward. Superman and Wonder Woman are also losing over interest, especially Superman.



    True!
    I really hate them making Clark a naive , stupid, blinkered loser type just to fit into a back dated role. It is 2019. Not the 70ties. The dude should be sharp and understand and himself be fighting injustice, not just standing by because he does not want to upset his comfy life. I have no idea why this guy is even a reporter. I really don't.


    Well I don't know how they can say it had no impact and yet DC keep putting out SMWW stuff for the general public.

    BTW Walmart has got the Anthology too.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Superman-...QWao1bebAR7K7A

  15. #4755
    Mighty Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    I laugh with amusement and bemusement because of all the petty and spiteful attacks against SMWW and its fans in order to re-establish the status quo, and also at the utter clueless and directionless actions we continue to witness as they seem to be yielding no real positive results.
    Superman and Wonder Woman are a shadow of themselves. But as has been stated, that doesn’t matter as long as they are with their “human tethers.” LOL. SMH.
    What I find funny but really worrying is that the attacks have returned now that the old statuos quo has returned, actually been here for some time, and in a more dry and illogical way! In fact some attacks and comments do not correspond to anything that is going on in comics these days.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    If everything fine and dandy with the old status quos and SMWW wasn’t the success it was(and still is) and hadn’t established what it has and made the impact, that’s one thing. If both old and new status quos succeeds obviously why not be open to all options. But the option chosen was one that made no sense what so ever and put business in a dead in corner. Not only cutting a concept that has shown value, but alienated potential new fans in the process then backpedalled to outdated concepts and narratives that only satisfies an already shrinking demo and doesn’t move anything forward. Superman and Wonder Woman are also losing over interest, especially Superman.
    DC have the multiverse, they can make almost everybody happy, they can make crossovers and everything with the multiverse but they deny to themselves this kind of success and deny to the fans the pleasure of have their heroes living what they want to see!

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