Jon Kent Appreciation 2019

[Tzigone]

Ma and Pa was pretty common for Clark during the modern age, honestly. Johns and Morrison in particular. Superman For All Seasons was really influential in this, and so was basically all of Johns in continuity work (especially Secret Origin).

Conner Kent even used "Ma" and "Pa." Same goes for Kara. When Conner moved back in after he came back to life, Martha made sure he called her "Ma". Also, the DCAU had Clark and Kara call them Ma and Pa.

I'm not really seeing the big deal when it comes to Jon. He switches between "pa" and "dad". Bendis is kind of just following Johns' lead, and making it a Kent family specific verbal tic.

Okay, but has Jon ever switched before or did it just show up? I don't like it because Jon didn't do it before, but more than that, I'm very sensitive to making Jon just like Clark, given I feel he's very much being used as a Clark-standin right now (I didn't like Kon as a Clark standin as Superboy in Smallville, either), and losing his distinctiveness. Anything new (not existing pre-Bendis) that is "just like Clark" is going to irritate me right now because of that. I really hope they never give him a Luthor.

I know Ma and Pa Kent is a thing, just wanted to know when it started. I really don't even like it for Clark, to be honest. It feels more like putting him in a "country bumpkin" or "naive farm boy" box. If it was inherited from older works, I'd get it, but in the older ones I read with his parents, Mom and Dad was more common. But that could just be coincidence, since I haven't read many.

[Blue22]

Yeah if this was something Jon always did, that'd be one thing (albeit really friggin corny) but it just started and it kinda comes off as another way they're trying to make him like his Dad.

I really hope they never give him a Luthor.

You might wanna skip the final Super Sons arc.

((I wouldn't blame you if you did, anyway. It was an annoyingly low note for the series to go out on))

[Sam]

Yeah if this was something Jon always did, that'd be one thing (albeit really friggin corny) but it just started and it kinda comes off as another way they're trying to make him like his Dad.

Yeah, "Pa" just sounds weird coming from Jon. He's used "Dad" and "Sir", but never "Pa". It just comes off as Bendis not really getting Jon's voice.

[manwhohaseverything]

Ma and Pa was pretty common for Clark during the modern age, honestly. Johns and Morrison in particular. Superman For All Seasons was really influential in this, and so was basically all of Johns in continuity work (especially Secret Origin).

Conner Kent even used "Ma" and "Pa." Same goes for Kara. When Conner moved back in after he came back to life, Martha made sure he called her "Ma". Also, the DCAU had Clark and Kara call them Ma and Pa.

I'm not really seeing the big deal when it comes to Jon. He switches between "pa" and "dad". Bendis is kind of just following Johns' lead, and making it a Kent family specific verbal tic.

Pa thing kinda feels dated. Jon never felt like a dated character. He doesn't have this long iconic history to stand on. When clark does it feels like it fits. He is vetren old fashioned guy. Ofcourse, he is going to call his dad "pa". When jon does it,it feels like we are taking Clark's to publishing history and piling it on top of jon. A burden the character may not be able to handle.

There is this other thing, that bugs me. "pa" title has a long history. It's not just a term of endearment, It's kinda like superman title . Jonathan kent sr. Earned that name by the dad he was. He was facing the unknown with clark that could have blown up in his face. It was very dangerous. But, they did raise clark right. I don't the clark has earned that kind of pedigree just yet. Just cause, Jon isn't entirely unknown entity for clark(he was during the Manchester black thing) .now,he is treated like another kryptonIan. We don't know if hybrid vigor is a thing like it was. Bendis hasn't said anything about how Jon's biology being different or why jon's solar flare is so catastrophic/uncontrollable for him and others. Which was one of the reasons he wanted to leave with jor el. The concept seems to be dead.

[Superlad93]

I mean, no, he's never said it before this point, but Conner never said it before Johns' run either. Like I said, it seems like the idea is less about making it a "golly gee" country thing, but rather making it a Kent family specific tradition that carries a certain amount weight and connotation to it for the one saying it and the one who it's being said to.

There's a whole conversation about legacy characters having inherent and purposeful derivative aspects build in them (for example, Jurgens literally says that Jon was designed to look just like his father. And Tomasi put him on a farm, in a small town, and he literally called it his Smallville. He even said that now Clark is "the Pa Kent."), but it's just such an obnoxious merry go 'round of a conversation to have. Either the derivative aspects inherently present toe the line just right for you, or something is a step too far or whatever.

"Pa" is that step too far for some people, and for others that was Hamilton, looking just like Clark (down to the glasses), and being best friends with a Robin for others. Ultimately, it just is what it is.

[Rac7d*]

looks like you are going out of your way to find nitpicks. Lois was in her own apartment and she wasn't expecting Jon, but Clark. I get that it's a pointless scene for cheap comedy, but saying there are incest vibes from it is unwarranted.

I am not going out of my way to find nitpicks, my point was that scenario was that the scenario was unnecessary
Also she should have robe on

[Blue22]

I mean...if she knew Jon was there, I'm sure she would have worn one. But she thought he was her husband so she went into "good times" mode XD

[DragonPiece]

I am not going out of my way to find nitpicks, my point was that scenario was that the scenario was unnecessary
Also she should have robe on

But she put it on when she saw Jon, why can't she be comfortable in her own apartment anyways?

[Sam]

I mean, no, he's never said it before this point, but Conner never said it before Johns' run either. Like I said, it seems like the idea is less about making it a "golly gee" country thing, but rather making it a Kent family specific tradition that carries a certain amount weight and connotation to it for the one saying it and the one who it's being said to.

There's a whole conversation about legacy characters having inherent and purposeful derivative aspects build in them (for example, Jurgens literally says that Jon was designed to look just like his father. And Tomasi put him on a farm, in a small town, and he literally called it his Smallville. He even said that now Clark is "the Pa Kent."), but it's just such an obnoxious merry go 'round of a conversation to have. Either the derivative aspects inherently present toe the line just right for you, or something is a step too far or whatever.

"Pa" is that step too far for some people, and for others that was Hamilton, looking just like Clark (down to the glasses), and being best friends with a Robin for others. Ultimately, it just is what it is.

What it is is out of nowhere. People don't just randomly call people Pa because they grew up on a farm. It's not a tradition. It's out of character speech. Whatever Bendis's intention was doesn't change the awkwardness of it (much like Lois calling Jon "boy").

[Superlad93]

I feel like I wrote my thoughts out pretty clear, and like I said there, it is what it is. What this is obviously varies between people, and however you wanna take it is how you're gonna take it. But, for the record, yeah its obviously out of nowhere insofar as Jon having never said it before, but the intent is pretty clearly for it to be a evocative as a Kent family thing. Bendis did something similar in issue 7 of Superman where he has Jor-El say that Lois and Jon will each have a "cabin of solitude" to themselves. The cabins came with an automated A.I. in each of them that would even provide emotional support. Clearly the intent is to use Superman concepts and iconography present in the shared lexicon of the world to remix and impart an idea. Even though Clark is usually the one who names his Fortress, and this is the first time time we've heard of smaller "rooms of solitude" for Kryptonians, but the idea is there to be evocative of what your average reader may have heard associated with Kryptonians beforehand.

Anyways, either you don't mind it, or you do. It is what it is.

[Sam]

I feel like I wrote my thoughts out pretty clear, and like I said there, it is what it is. What this is obviously varies between people, and however you wanna take it is how you're gonna take it. But, for the record, yeah its obviously out of nowhere insofar as Jon having never said it before, but the intent is pretty clearly for it to be a evocative as a Kent family thing. Bendis did something similar in issue 7 of Superman where he has Jor-El say that Lois and Jon will each have a "cabin of solitude" to themselves. The cabins came with an automated A.I. in each of them that would even provide emotional support. Clearly the intent is to use Superman concepts and iconography present in the shared lexicon of the world to remix and impart an idea. Even though Clark is usually the one who names his Fortress, and this is the first time time we've heard of smaller "rooms of solitude" for Kryptonians, but the idea is there to be evocative of what your average reader may have heard associated with Kryptonians beforehand.

Anyways, either you don't mind it, or you do. It is what it is.

No, it's bad out of character writing. You can't try to justify it all you want but claiming it evokes something, but even if that is the attempt, it doesn't work. It's Bendis doing things his way rather than actually paying attention to what came before. Just like the rest of this run. Actual character is meaningless if it gets it the way of what Bendis wants. And what Bendis wants is usually moronic when it comes to this title.

[Superlad93]

but even if that is the attempt, it doesn't work.

For. You.

I don't know how much more clear I can make that. If it's just not doing it for you then it is what it is. Like I said in both my post, it is out of nowhere insofar as Jon hasn't said it before, and it may be a step too far in terms of similarities to Clark for some people, but the opposite is true for others. Some people drew the line at Jon deliberately looking like Clark, glasses and all (another thing that has become a "Kent family thing" given that Conner, Kara, and Chris all wore them as their primary disguise, and were directly derivative of Clark's), or growing up in a small town on a farm, or even being called Superboy on top of all of that. Other people aren't even gonna bat an eyelash. Neither party is wrong here. He still calls his dad "dad" and "sir" along with "Pa".

[Sam]

For. You.

I don't know how much more clear I can make that. If it's just not doing it for you then it is what it is. Like I said in both my post, it is out of nowhere insofar as Jon hasn't said it before, and it may be a step too far in terms of similarities to Clark for some people, but the opposite is true for others. Some people drew the line at Jon deliberately looking like Clark, glasses and all (another thing that has become a "Kent family thing" given that Conner, Kara, and Chris all wore them as their primary disguise, and were directly derivative of Clark's), or growing up in a small town on a farm, or even being called Superboy on top of all of that. Other people aren't even gonna bat an eyelash. Neither party is wrong here. He still calls his dad "dad" and "sir" along with "Pa".

Except it doesn't work for a lot of people. It isn't just my opinion. It's a lot of peoples. So while you may want to wave it off as something that doesn't work for me, you can't. It's a ridiculous justification to say some people like things and others don't. That doesn't mean I shouldn't voice my own opinion about it. Some people like Twilight and that's fine, but it doesn't mean I can't call the writing terrible.

[Superlad93]

Except it doesn't work for a lot of people. It isn't just my opinion.

Like, what do you want me to say? It's their opinion too just like it's my opinion and your opinion? I imagined that was implied. It's not a justification. It's how enjoying a work of fiction works. I'm not dismissing your opinion, but for some odd reason you seem hell bent on dismissing mine or anyone else's that doesn't line up with yours. For the sake of keeping things civil, I'm gonna go ahead and cut off my end of this conversation. Feel free to get in the last word if you like.

[Sam]

Like, what do you want me to say? It's their opinion too just like it's my opinion and your opinion? I imagined that was implied. It's not a justification. It's how enjoying a work of fiction works. I'm not dismissing your opinion, but for some odd reason you seem hell bent on dismissing mine or anyone else's that doesn't line up with yours. For the sake of keeping things civil, I'm gonna go ahead and cut off my end of this conversation. Feel free to get in the last word if you like.

When your argument amounts to it works for some, but not for others, so it is what it is, that comes off as dismissive, because it essentially silences the other side as just a difference of opinion while they might have actual gripes and criticisms with the work that they want to express.