Jon Kent Appreciation 2019

[Kon93]

Hmm. He'll have a hard time doing that without breaking suspension of disbelief.

While they are obviously fictional characters and you can show them doing whatever you want, you are limited by 1) the character’s personality and 2) audience immersion. Damian is prickly enough as it is, and doesn’t strike me as the type of kid who will deal well with someone who is older (and therefore “the responsible one”). He’s also rather broken emotionally and thus distrustful. Any reaction from him that isn’t extremely suspicious of reboot-Jon from the start will be out of character. Damian is very afraid that the people he loves will try to replace him and he would probably immediately jump to the worst possible conclusion. Of course, you can work around this, but it would take time and have to be done carefully. The same is true for Jon, of course. You can't just be apart for 7 years and expect nothing to have changed.

Further, the relationship is simply strained by such a huge age difference. While 4-5 years is fairly small for adults, for kids it is huge. From the perspective of a 12 years old, a 17ish year old is practically an adult and thus someone “in charge” rather than someone to be played with as equals. I know from experience that it’s awkward and almost impossible to be friends with someone that much younger than you for that reason. A big-brother, little brother type relationship is I think the best that can be hoped for, but Damian is not likely to accept Jon as a “big brother” (at least, it would break my suspension of belief if he did). So Bendis will be fighting upstream if he genuinely wants the Supersons friendship to survive this in a realistic manner.

Finally, for the friendship to survive, Bendis has to play it realistically enough that other authors will also write the friendship into stories. The comic world is a communal writing exercise and is shaped by the opinions of multiple authors. If he fails to convince his fellow authors that the relationship is realistic and not awkward, then it won't get written well in other books and will essentially die anyway.

I suppose it's possible, but it's an enormous gamble for him to expect to recover the relationship as it was with no change. It places a lot of faith in his ability to write a story so excellent that it is able to solve all these numerous structural problems while fighting against the opinions of some 60-80% of fans (based on polls on this site) who dislike the change. No doubt he will be able to win over some, but the majority seems a long shot.

Suspension of belief and realistic, those are things that will be a uphill battle for bendis.

[Korath]

Hmm. He'll have a hard time doing that without breaking suspension of disbelief.

While they are obviously fictional characters and you can show them doing whatever you want, you are limited by 1) the character’s personality and 2) audience immersion. Damian is prickly enough as it is, and doesn’t strike me as the type of kid who will deal well with someone who is older (and therefore “the responsible one”). He’s also rather broken emotionally and thus distrustful. Any reaction from him that isn’t extremely suspicious of reboot-Jon from the start will be out of character. Damian is very afraid that the people he loves will try to replace him and he would probably immediately jump to the worst possible conclusion. Of course, you can work around this, but it would take time and have to be done carefully. The same is true for Jon, of course. You can't just be apart for 7 years and expect nothing to have changed.

Further, the relationship is simply strained by such a huge age difference. While 4-5 years is fairly small for adults, for kids it is huge. From the perspective of a 12 years old, a 17ish year old is practically an adult and thus someone “in charge” rather than someone to be played with as equals. I know from experience that it’s awkward and almost impossible to be friends with someone that much younger than you for that reason. A big-brother, little brother type relationship is I think the best that can be hoped for, but Damian is not likely to accept Jon as a “big brother” (at least, it would break my suspension of belief if he did). So Bendis will be fighting upstream if he genuinely wants the Supersons friendship to survive this in a realistic manner.

Finally, for the friendship to survive, Bendis has to play it realistically enough that other authors will also write the friendship into stories. The comic world is a communal writing exercise and is shaped by the opinions of multiple authors. If he fails to convince his fellow authors that the relationship is realistic and not awkward, then it won't get written well in other books and will essentially die anyway.

I suppose it's possible, but it's an enormous gamble for him to expect to recover the relationship as it was with no change. It places a lot of faith in his ability to write a story so excellent that it is able to solve all these numerous structural problems while fighting against the opinions of some 60-80% of fans (based on polls on this site) who dislike the change. No doubt he will be able to win over some, but the majority seems a long shot.

Damian best relationship is with Dick Grayson, and the age difference was even greater than with 17 y.o. Jon.

Yes, it wasn't the silly friendship he has with 10 y.o. Jon, which somehow passed as character progression for some, and not deformation or corruption of what Damian is (a shame, considering that Tomasi and Gleason wrote a really good Damian in Batman and Robin and Robin : Son of Batman).

Damian doesn't care about the age of others. He's in charge, and to earn his respect and his friendship, you have to challenge him and prove yourself. That's why Dick Grayson grew on him while Tim Drake didn't; why he befriended Duke Thomas and Wally West. When they felt it necessary, they pushed him back and he likes them for it.

Damian has a scarred core, not a soft one. He cares, in his own way, about a lot of things, be they peoples or animals. But he can't change the fact that eh was groomed since his birth to rule. His struggle is that he is a natural-born killer and conqueror trying to become a hero, with an extremely flawed role model -Batman- another one who can't always be there for him - Nightwing- and two cautionary tales - Jason and Tim.

Even his best friends, Maya Ducard and Suren Darga are damaged goods, the children of evil and twisted men, reaching to become something better. That's why he works so well with his current Teen Titans and especially with Emiko Queen, while he didn't with his former team. He's not Tim Drake who makes friends out of everyone he met, if he so wishes. He's Damian, a little tyrant who will take a bullet for you if you earned it, utterly devoted to what he consider his missions, often to the point of zealotry. That's why his friendship with Jon don't work for me in Supersons. This isn't the real Damian here, because he's too goofy, too stupid and kid-like to be considered anything else but a twisted version of Damian.

[Jared S]

Damian best relationship is with Dick Grayson, and the age difference was even greater than with 17 y.o. Jon.

By my analysis, that was a mentor/mentee, big brother/younger brother relationship (which ONLY works when there is an age difference). It's a form of Storge, not a Philia relationship, where the two characters should optimally be peers and directed towards some shared goal. It is a fair point to bring it up, but it doesn't quite provide the comparison I think you are looking for.

[I can't help but wonder, by the way, why you bother to defend this, since you have stated you disliked their friendship from the start. Would you like it more now that Jon is older, or are you rooting for it to be forgotten?]

Yes, it wasn't the silly friendship he has with 10 y.o. Jon, which somehow passed as character progression for some, and not deformation or corruption of what Damian is (a shame, considering that Tomasi and Gleason wrote a really good Damian in Batman and Robin and Robin : Son of Batman).

Damian doesn't care about the age of others. He's in charge, and to earn his respect and his friendship, you have to challenge him and prove yourself. That's why Dick Grayson grew on him while Tim Drake didn't; why he befriended Duke Thomas and Wally West. When they felt it necessary, they pushed him back and he likes them for it.

"Being in charge" does not a friendship make. Certainly, you can have a good relationship with a subordinate, but true friendship typically involves people who are essentially standing side by side, who are equal to you, and who share some loves, interests, or goals of your own. Certainly it CAN surpass boundaries of age and sometimes be between one in authority and a subordinate, but the people must at least on some level share mutual respect and treat each other as equals.

Otherwise, I can't say I disagree with Damian's need for people to "earn his respect." I'm not saying, by the way, that he would automatically hate Jon merely because he is older. I just think, realistically, it would disrupt their current friendship and prevent it from reforming in anything like the same way, if at all.

Damian has a scarred core, not a soft one. He cares, in his own way, about a lot of things, be they peoples or animals. But he can't change the fact that eh was groomed since his birth to rule. His struggle is that he is a natural-born killer and conqueror trying to become a hero, with an extremely flawed role model -Batman- another one who can't always be there for him - Nightwing- and two cautionary tales - Jason and Tim.

Even his best friends, Maya Ducard and Suren Darga are damaged goods, the children of evil and twisted men, reaching to become something better. That's why he works so well with his current Teen Titans and especially with Emiko Queen, while he didn't with his former team. He's not Tim Drake who makes friends out of everyone he met, if he so wishes. He's Damian, a little tyrant who will take a bullet for you if you earned it, utterly devoted to what he consider his missions, often to the point of zealotry. That's why his friendship with Jon don't work for me in Supersons. This isn't the real Damian here, because he's too goofy, too stupid and kid-like to be considered anything else but a twisted version of Damian.

I suspect we will simply have to disagree. You seem to like Damian primarily for his "scarred core;" I enjoy that, but more so his rare moments of empathy (like loving animals) and especially his moments where he shows, despite his hard exterior, that he actually DOES care.

[I would define him, by the way, as scarred exterior, with a very, very hidden softer core in select circumstances. For me, scarred core means that the character would be, at his most exposed, incapable of normal emotional displays; so by my nomenclature, a scarred-core Damian would not love animals, would actually dislike Nightwing, would not care at all about Batman's approval nor seek to win it, and would pretty much not be capable of having, or wanting to have, friends at all. In his innermost nature, there would have to be something terribly, unalterably wrong with him. I just don't think that defines Damian. Most likely you use "scarred core" in a different sense, though, since you go to immediately say he does in fact care sometimes.]

My take on it is that, in his head, Damian likes to think of his friendship with Jon as him "helping" a younger hero (I think he treats Jon somewhat like he would a lost puppy), but in reality, his motivation comes mostly from the very natural human need to have friends his own age. Having one alleged motivation and another hidden emotional one seems very much in line with how Damian has been portrayed in the past. One problem with the age up is that both of those motivations vanish.

I agree that he is more "goofy and kid-like" around Jon. I find this unproblematic for two reasons; firstly because I think he is intentionally toning down his "zealotry" around Jon, and secondly, because he does not feel any obligation to "act grown up" around Jon. To him, Jon is not someone he feels like he needs to impress, so he is more relaxed and less constantly on edge to prove himself. I feel both of these are good enough reasons to explain his actions that diverge from his normal characterization. [I also allow some leeway for the genre. The Supersons comic as a whole is obviously not meant to be taken as seriously as some other runs. If even characters as down-to-earth as Batman can occasionally have light-hearted runs, I don't see why Damian can't.]

Regardless, ultimately we will likely never come to an agreement on this matter, since we appear to be interested in different aspects of the story and character. A light-hearted story will never someone looking for a more realistic tone, no matter the writing, and vice versa.

[manwhohaseverything]

Damian has a scarred core, not a soft one. He cares, in his own way, about a lot of things, be they peoples or animals. But he can't change the fact that eh was groomed since his birth to rule. His struggle is that he is a natural-born killer and conqueror trying to become a hero, with an extremely flawed role model -Batman- another one who can't always be there for him - Nightwing- and two cautionary tales - Jason and Tim.

Even his best friends, Maya Ducard and Suren Darga are damaged goods, the children of evil and twisted men, reaching to become something better. That's why he works so well with his current Teen Titans and especially with Emiko Queen, while he didn't with his former team. He's not Tim Drake who makes friends out of everyone he met, if he so wishes. He's Damian, a little tyrant who will take a bullet for you if you earned it, utterly devoted to what he consider his missions, often to the point of zealotry. That's why his friendship with Jon don't work for me in Supersons. This isn't the real Damian here, because he's too goofy, too stupid and kid-like to be considered anything else but a twisted version of Damian.

You are stuck in a belief that Jon is unworthy or hasn't earned Damian's friendship. They weren't trying to be friends. They hated each other. They were just stuck together. Because Damian kidnapped him and their dad's had brilliant idea to let them train together. But after training ended. Damian started getting curious about the other side of the spectrum. Which later grew into genuine friendship.

This what i feel you are missing about Damian. Sure, he is scarred. His relationship with Dick also works because Dick had always thought of him as a kid. Sure, he respects him as Robin. But, Dick always knew that Damian was kid underneath it all. Maya and others don't fulfill that part in Damian life is because Jon is different. Damian can be himself around Jon not be his boss or a 24 year old. Cause, that didn't work. Jon is a kid, kids don't generally like adults telling them what to do or how to play. Which is what it was for Jon, playtime. Which jon began to realise, heroics was not.

On top of that, there is a curiosity that Damian has that, Jon is "son of The Superman". Batman's best friend's son,someone who The Bat respects. The Batman is what he wants to be. So, he is curious about Jon. Which later grew. He wants someone to fill that Superman role for him. But, jon seemed oblivious to the importance of "Superman".Jon was too busy being a kid, going to school and having some fun/mischief . Which, frustrated Damian.At first, it felt like Damian wanted Jon to be "superboy" more than Jon himself.

To quote someone here. Please forgive me for doing this without permission.

One of the reasons, in my mind, that 13 year old Damian and 10-year-old Jon just would work better is that Damian really has never had a childhood. He tries to come off as mature and adult, but deep down there is a part of him that's pretty vulnerable and sensitive. There's a part of him that is envious of everything that Jon has: the well-adjusted childhood and the emotionally available parents. While Damian wants people to believe that emotionally he is 25, in reality, deep down, he's a little kid. Younger than Jon in some ways. He takes comfort in animals, he's stubborn as hell, his most fulfilling relationship is with a boy 3 years younger than him. And regardless of whether he would admit it, it was Damian who really sought out Jon's companionship, because he almost needs Jon more than Jon needs him.

It was an incredibly rich, interesting, and complex dynamic that revealed a lot about both characters.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Damian already has 3 "older brothers" in Dick, Tim and Jason. He doesn't need another one in the new Jonathan. What Bendis is going to do, is show Damian and Jon pal around for an issue or two in order to figuratively shout at readers "SEE? THIS IS FINE! TOLD YOU I DIDN'T SCREW ANYTHING UP!" But their dynamic is just going to be a shell of what it once was.

[manwhohaseverything]

[manwhohaseverything]

[manwhohaseverything]

Jonah Hex is going to show up on Supersons.

ADVENTURES OF THE SUPER SONS #9
written by PETER J. TOMASI
art by SCOTT GODLEWSKI
cover by DAN MORA
Takron-Galtos, the prison planet, may be behind them—but in order to beat the Gang and get home, the boys must saddle up to survive a wild wild world of the west! An unlikely guide on this lawless planet might just help Superboy and Robin survive…but what in the west world is Jonah Hex doing out here in space?! Hold on to your hats, this one’s going to be a bucking good time!
ON SALE 04.03.19
$3.99 US | 9 of 12 | 32 PAGES
FC | RATED T

[Jared S]

What a beautiful cover! I think is my favorite so far.

Uh... Does he normally have a half-melted face?

I'm looking forward to seeing him in comics; this will be the first time I've read anything with Jonah Hex in it (and since his great-great-granddaughter whatsit is in Young Justice, I want to know more about him.)

[manwhohaseverything]

What a beautiful cover! I think is my favorite so far.

Uh... Does he normally have a half-melted face?
Pi
I'm looking forward to seeing him in comics; this will be the first time I've read anything with Jonah Hex in it (and since his great-great-granddaughter whatsit is in Young Justice, I want to know more about him.)

No, but he does have holes in the mouth area. Have you watched justice league animated series? He appears in it. Lobo might also be showing up. So, business is picking up.

[manwhohaseverything]

Damian already has 3 "older brothers" in Dick, Tim and Jason. He doesn't need another one in the new Jonathan. What Bendis is going to do, is show Damian and Jon pal around for an issue or two in order to figuratively shout at readers "SEE? THIS IS FINE! TOLD YOU I DIDN'T SCREW ANYTHING UP!" But their dynamic is just going to be a shell of what it once was.

This something i fear and hope not happen. Because that will just be cheap as hell. Considering Bendis has not lived upto the hype or the promises he made. I hope not. But i can see the possibility of this happening.

[dietrich]

Damian best relationship is with Dick Grayson, and the age difference was even greater than with 17 y.o. Jon.

Yes, it wasn't the silly friendship he has with 10 y.o. Jon, which somehow passed as character progression for some, and not deformation or corruption of what Damian is (a shame, considering that Tomasi and Gleason wrote a really good Damian in Batman and Robin and Robin : Son of Batman).

Damian doesn't care about the age of others. He's in charge, and to earn his respect and his friendship, you have to challenge him and prove yourself. That's why Dick Grayson grew on him while Tim Drake didn't; why he befriended Duke Thomas and Wally West. When they felt it necessary, they pushed him back and he likes them for it.

Damian has a scarred core, not a soft one. He cares, in his own way, about a lot of things, be they peoples or animals. But he can't change the fact that eh was groomed since his birth to rule. His struggle is that he is a natural-born killer and conqueror trying to become a hero, with an extremely flawed role model -Batman- another one who can't always be there for him - Nightwing- and two cautionary tales - Jason and Tim.

Even his best friends, Maya Ducard and Suren Darga are damaged goods, the children of evil and twisted men, reaching to become something better. That's why he works so well with his current Teen Titans and especially with Emiko Queen, while he didn't with his former team. He's not Tim Drake who makes friends out of everyone he met, if he so wishes. He's Damian, a little tyrant who will take a bullet for you if you earned it, utterly devoted to what he consider his missions, often to the point of zealotry. That's why his friendship with Jon don't work for me in Supersons. This isn't the real Damian here, because he's too goofy, too stupid and kid-like to be considered anything else but a twisted version of Damian.

This. So much this. Though I don't see their friendship as silly. Damian value Jon's friendship.

I feel Damian is likely to get along more with older jon simply because he isn't a kid and he isn't as innocent or green. Damian might be 13 but he's never been a kid nor does he act or think like one.

[manwhohaseverything]

This. So much this. Though I don't see their friendship as silly. Damian value Jon's friendship.

I feel Damian is likely to get along more with older jon simply because he isn't a kid and he isn't as innocent or green. Damian might be 13 but he's never been a kid nor does he act or think like one.

He still won't take **** from damian, like kory or others did. If that is what you are hoping for. He didn't take it as kid, now he is "the superman".chances are, that is not happening.
If Damian is not a kid, then what is he? For me Damian has always been a kid. Sure, he has blood on his hands. That doesn't mean a damn thing. And Why is he more comfortable with Dick than his own father?

[dietrich]

You are stuck in a belief that Jon is unworthy or hasn't earned Damian's friendship. They weren't trying to be friends. They hated each other. They were just stuck together. Because Damian kidnapped him and their dad's had brilliant idea to let them train together. But after training ended. Damian started getting curious about the other side of the spectrum. Which later grew into genuine friendship.

This what i feel you are missing about Damian. Sure, he is scarred. His relationship with Dick also works because Dick had always thought of him as a kid. Sure, he respects him as Robin. But, Dick always knew that Damian was kid underneath it all. Maya and others don't fulfill that part in Damian life is because Jon is different. Damian can be himself around Jon not be his boss or a 24 year old. Cause, that didn't work. Jon is a kid, kids don't generally like adults telling them what to do or how to play. Which is what it was for Jon, playtime. Which jon began to realise, heroics was not.

On top of that, there is a curiosity that Damian has that, Jon is "son of The Superman". Batman's best friend's son,someone who The Bat respects. The Batman is what he wants to be. So, he is curious about Jon. Which later grew. He wants someone to fill that Superman role for him. But, jon seemed oblivious to the importance of "Superman".Jon was too busy being a kid, going to school and having some fun/mischief . Which, frustrated Damian.At first, it felt like Damian wanted Jon to be "superboy" more than Jon himself.

To quote someone here. Please forgive me for doing this without permission.

I question how much Damian some posters here have read. Damian's most fulfilling relationship is with a 24 year old and with Maya again much older.

The charm of supersons was because one is a kid and the other wasn't. How many fights have they had because Damian treats him like a kid and then Jon reacts like a kid.

Damian in Supersons is a kiddy/fluffy version of Damian to be honest.

Doubt Jon saw it as playtime since o n their 1st Playdate Damian threw him off a window and put him face to face with a 5 dead bodies.

[manwhohaseverything]

I question how much Damian some posters here have read. Damian's most fulfilling relationship is with a 24 year old and with Maya again much older.

The charm of supersons was because one is a kid and the other wasn't. How many fights have they had because Damian treats him like a kid and then Jon reacts like a kid.

Damian in Supersons is a kiddy/fluffy version of Damian to be honest.

Dude, Damian never acts like a 24 year old. He acts like a jerk.they are not the same thing. And as i said, that may be the reason why he seeks out Jon. Acting like a 24 year old is not being 24 year old. Dick saw right through that ****. Damian tried to play the 24 year old with jon, at first.It didn't work. Jon is a kid. He doesn't like it when others tell him how to play. And Damian try to be himself. Damian's other side, began to truly emerge.Jon is becoming more his best friend because of this. Damian gets to live out, some parts of the thing he lost with Jon. Heck! We had jon and Damian in clark's house eating ice-cream, junk food like normal kid, with Clark around. Do you think normally Damian would do that?
And as Dick is Damian's "batman". Jon is Damian's "superman".