Jon Kent Appreciation 2019

[rpmaluki]

When your argument amounts to it works for some, but not for others, so it is what it is, that comes off as dismissive, because it essentially silences the other side as just a difference of opinion while they might have actual gripes and criticisms with the work that they want to express.

I don't get this though. Isn't that what everyone has actually done. Some have expressed their dislike for Bendis' writings while others aren't so bothered by it. Nobody is likely ever to change the other camp's opinion so what of this is so "dismissive"? Your opinion isn't being silenced from what I have read.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't get this though. Isn't that what everyone has actually done. Some have expressed their dislike for Bendis' writings while others aren't so bothered by it. Nobody is likely ever to change the other camp's opinion so what of this is so "dismissive"? Your opinion isn't being silenced from what I have read.

Maybe, what he means this specifically is an out of character thing for jon. Similarity with clark isn't much of an issue.while, @superlad is justifying out of character writing by saying jon has many of Clark's attributes, one more doesn't hurt. That's not how it works. Wouldn't it be wierd to have conner being the farmboy character suddenly from being the Metropolis city kid. It just feels out of left field. Not mention really dated. Something quite contradictory to jon.

[Sam]

I don't get this though. Isn't that what everyone has actually done. Some have expressed their dislike for Bendis' writings while others aren't so bothered by it. Nobody is likely ever to change the other camp's opinion so what of this is so "dismissive"? Your opinion isn't being silenced from what I have read.

That’s exactly my point. Some people may like and some may not, but that’s true of everything, which makes it completely irrelevant to the discussion. The way that argument tends to get used is to actually end debate. Resolve it as “Whatever, you can hate it, while I like it.” That can be true, but that doesn’t mean everyone shouldn’t be able to present their arguments and feelings anyway.

[Superlad93]

@superlad is justifying out of character writing by saying jon has many of Clark's attributes, one more doesn't hurt.

That's not really my point here, and I'm not actually justifying it as universally okay for everyone.

Wouldn't it be wierd to have conner being the farmboy character suddenly from being the Metropolis city kid. It just feels out of left field. Not mention really dated.

I can't tell if you're joking or not. This literally happened under Johns' pen. Kon-El moved to Smalliville, changed his name to Conner Kent ("C.K."), went to Smallville high, worked on the Kent farm, lived with Ma and Pa, cut his hair, wore glasses, wore flannel, and Krypto was his pal. Then later when he came back to life he literally made a list of just how similar his life was to Clark's, AND he even had his own Lex Luthor who he was friends with at first. Johns even retconed his origin so that he was now genetically linked to Superman unlike before.

For some fans of the old 90s Conner, this was incredibly jarring and off putting. For others? It's their definitive version of the character, no question. It's gone on to be the most used version of the character in outside media. And both sides of the argument have merit. There are legitimate concerns with that take stripping away the individuality of the character. But on the other hand, some fans enjoy the deliberate remix of familiar touchstones, sayings, and beats using a new character and a new perspective, and they found it easier to get into the character. Again, points on both sides, and Johns made the hard call that he thought was right. Full disclosure, my first ever comic was an old 90s issue of Superboy long after the book was gone, but I didn't get into comics till I picked up on Johns' version. I enjoy both for different reasons, and think each take has something over the other. But the shift was jarring as hell.

[Superlad93]

That’s exactly my point. Some people may like and some may not, but that’s true of everything, which makes it completely irrelevant to the discussion. The way that argument tends to get used is to actually end debate. Resolve it as “Whatever, you can hate it, while I like it.” That can be true, but that doesn’t mean everyone shouldn’t be able to present their arguments and feelings anyway.

I can't possibly be faulted for how you specifically decide to take what I say. That's especially true if you don't actively verbalize it early on so I have some idea of how my words are hitting you. Without that understanding and context your post to me just come off as draconian and overly aggressive. How is any meaningful discourse supposed to happen then?

[Blue22]

I will say, even though I STRONGLY disagree with like 90% of the things he says in regards to Bendis' Superman run, Superlad is pretty damn good at putting things in perspective for me. Conner did go through a VERY dramatic character overhaul under John's, where he was almost a completely different person. And you know what? I liked it. Granted, I'm biased because that Conner was part of the Teen Titans book that got me into comics in the first place. But yeah, I can see the similarities to what's going on with Jon right now. I still hate it with every fiber of my being and can't help but I hate how Bendis is one of few people who can make me legitimately angry or sad over fictional characters and stories (he did it back in Marvel too). But I get it. I'm still gonna bitch about it because, dammit, I need to vent. But I understand where Lad is coming from. I know what it's like to love something while everyone around me hates it xD

[manwhohaseverything]

That's not really my point here, and I'm not actually justifying it as universally okay for everyone.



I can't tell if you're joking or not. This literally happened under Johns' pen. Kon-El moved to Smalliville, changed his name to Conner Kent ("C.K."), went to Smallville high, worked on the Kent farm, lived with Ma and Pa, cut his hair, wore glasses, wore flannel, and Krypto was his pal. Then later when he came back to life he literally made a list of just how similar his life was to Clark's, AND he even had his own Lex Luthor who he was friends with at first. Johns even retconed his origin so that he was now genetically linked to Superman unlike before.

For some fans of the old 90s Conner, this was incredibly jarring and off putting. For others? It's their definitive version of the character, no question. It's gone on to be the most used version of the character in outside media. And both sides of the argument have merit. There are legitimate concerns with that take stripping away the individuality of the character. But on the other hand, some fans enjoy the deliberate remix of familiar touchstones, sayings, and beats using a new character and a new perspective, and they found it easier to get into the character. Again, points on both sides, and Johns made the hard call that he thought was right. Full disclosure, my first ever comic was an old 90s issue of Superboy long after the book was gone, but I didn't get into comics till I picked up on Johns' version. I enjoy both for different reasons, and think each take has something over the other. But the shift was jarring as hell.

I meant - "wasn't it" not "wouldn't it be" . just wasn't paying attention to typing since i am on my mobile Anyways, it just jarring regardless.

[Sam]

I can't possibly be faulted for how you specifically decide to take what I say. That's especially true if you don't actively verbalize it early on so I have some idea of how my words are hitting you. Without that understanding and context your post to me just come off as draconian and overly aggressive. How is any meaningful discourse supposed to happen then?

I did verbalize it early on. We haven’t been talking about this long. It is literally a this morning conversation.

[Superlad93]

I did verbalize it early on. We haven’t been talking about this long. It is literally a this morning conversation.

We were 6 replies deep between us. Only on your 4th did you specify. Had I known in like the first or second message, we'd have likely had a different interaction and a better understanding. Long before that my point was made. Again, I couldn't possibly have known that you felt I was being dismissive (as evidence by how often I tried to say that I thought your opinion was valid) unless your clearly verbalize that. Again without that, your replies read a certain way. And as seen by rpmaluki's reading of our exchange, I'm not the only one who was confused by you not elaborating on how the exchange was hitting you.

[Sam]

We were 6 replies deep between us. Only on your 4th did you specify. Had I known in like the first or second message, we'd have likely had a different interaction and a better understanding. Long before that my point was made. Again, I couldn't possibly have known that you felt I was being dismissive (as evidence by how often I tried to say that I thought your opinion was valid) unless your clearly verbalize that. Again without that, your replies read a certain way. And as seen by rpmaluki's reading of our exchange, I'm not the only one who was confused by you not elaborating on how the exchange was hitting you.

It was my third when I mentioned actually. I just said it clearer in my 4th. And it took me a reply or two to understand your main point. Regardless, that’s pretty early in the conversation. And fault is not at issue here. I don’t think any fault lies with either of us. I found your argument dismissive and I said so, but that doesn’t mean I think you are a dismissive person or that you are at any fault for making it.

[manwhohaseverything]

[manwhohaseverything]

From here:
https://emilynart.tumblr.com

[Blue22]

I like this Emilyn. She's invited to the cookout.

[Jackalope89]

4th wall breaking. But it works. And makes too much sense. I like it.

[Tzigone]

I can't tell if you're joking or not. This literally happened under Johns' pen. Kon-El moved to Smalliville, changed his name to Conner Kent ("C.K."), went to Smallville high, worked on the Kent farm, lived with Ma and Pa, cut his hair, wore glasses, wore flannel, and Krypto was his pal. Then later when he came back to life he literally made a list of just how similar his life was to Clark's, AND he even had his own Lex Luthor who he was friends with at first. Johns even retconed his origin so that he was now genetically linked to Superman unlike before.

For some fans of the old 90s Conner, this was incredibly jarring and off putting

Tell me about it. I hate it. I think his distinctiveness was taken away to make him Clark 2.0. And now the same is happening to Jon. And he didn't get as long to define himself, either.

Also, with the mentions of Hypertime for G5 - if they are all alternate timelines, couldn't they have split the timeline a little later, so I could still have kid!Jon in my present day stuff and others could have adult!Jon as Superman? I mean, we don't know what it will be yet, of course. Just speculating. Also means will likely never see Kathy again (chances were already slim, though), and I'd have liked to.