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  1. #271
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    Great Picture. And Looking like she is trying to get reception makes it funny too. Could haven been in the Connor drawn issues^^

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The first one is great, and is an homage to an AH! alternate cover of one of the first few issues of her series during the Palmiotti/Gray/Connor run. Same wonderful pose from the same angle. It's one of the nicest ideas I've ever seen for a comic book cover, perfectly catching the joy of flight. I've always wanted to see a few more moments where these sorts of superheroes do what every one of us would with those powers, just take a few minutes or hours to enjoy them. I might add the big difference between this and Hughes' cover is the clever and humorous detail where she's doing what someone would today, taking a selfie, something that really wasn't a thing back when he did that cover.

    Edit: Sorry, correction to the above, it was JSA Classified #1 that this cover appeared.

    jsaclassiefied1SKETCH.jpg


    Also, sorry for the size of the above, and for not using the color version; for some reason I'm finding better images aren't readily available.
    Last edited by achilles; 12-06-2019 at 07:16 AM.

  3. #273
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    So the animated Superhero girls got PG right. Even if it was only SG dressing up that way and having her PGesque attitude. As did the cut scenes in Injustice 2. This is good, I'd like to see more PG in animation, games, and in live action. I love to see PG with attitude.
    Last edited by achilles; 12-11-2019 at 12:18 PM.

  4. #274
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    What I find funny is that Karen's got the weirder, harder to handle origin, is literally a Silver Age throwback, and yet she's treated with far more consistency than Supergirl.
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  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    What I find funny is that Karen's got the weirder, harder to handle origin, is literally a Silver Age throwback, and yet she's treated with far more consistency than Supergirl.
    I think it's because she's got such an unwieldy history that what we have now (Earth-2 Supergirl) looks so damn tame by comparison, you'd dare not risk it.

    I was recently bombing around twitter and it seems like PG is going to possibly show up in Jimmy and Amanda's Birds of Prey comic. She's in a panel or two they've shown online, both of which seem to be the usual Harley lusting after her. I expected she may bomb in for a page just because Jimmy and Amanda seem to pick up characters and treat them like family afterward, but it'll be nice to see Karen again.

    I actually don't care for them being friends because I just can't see that happening, but I understand it's essentially the writers playing darlings and I can roll with it. If one out of character friendship is the price we gotta pay for Jimmy and Amanda back on the character, then it's well worth it!
    Last edited by Robanker; 12-11-2019 at 10:31 PM.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I think it's because she's got such an unwieldy history that what we have now (Earth-2 Supergirl) looks so damn tame by comparison, you'd dare not risk it.

    I was recently bombing around twitter and it seems like PG is going to possibly show up in Jimmy and Amanda's Birds of Prey comic. She's in a panel or two they've shown online, both of which seem to be the usual Harley lusting after her. I expected she may bomb in for a page just because Jimmy and Amanda seem to pick up characters and treat them like family afterward, but it'll be nice to see Karen again.

    I actually don't care for them being friends because I just can't see that happening, but I understand it's essentially the writers playing darlings and I can roll with it. If one out of character friendship is the price we gotta pay for Jimmy and Amanda back on the character, then it's well worth it!
    I hadn't hear this; when is it supposed to come? And...since AFAIK she's no longer considered part of the DCU----being literally in Limbo...does she make an official comeback, or is this just another out of continuity because it's related to Harley Quinn thing they do?

    I ask because I would really really like to see her back after so many years. She's way overdue to come back.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Those both look great, the second in particular because it so perfectly captures her sassier side.

    And yeah, I adored her solo from 2009. I miss it so much.
    I have a great way to cure that; simply have DC give PG another solo title with a creative team that understands her and likes her and has a plan for her! It's not like DC doesn't like solo female titles, especially ones a lead like Power Girl, who sort of epitomizes the current emphasis on showing powerful, take charge, smart and competent female characters.

  8. #278
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I have a great way to cure that; simply have DC give PG another solo title with a creative team that understands her and likes her and has a plan for her! It's not like DC doesn't like solo female titles, especially ones a lead like Power Girl, who sort of epitomizes the current emphasis on showing powerful, take charge, smart and competent female characters.
    She didn't sell well then and it's hard to justify giving PG a book from limbo when other characters are currently in the limelight and relegated to team books or less (Batwoman, Jessica, etc.)

    I love PG but if she just gets a random mini or ongoing, I don't know how it'll hold, especially since she won't have the JSA to interact with.

    As for her cameo, Jimmy and Amanda used her in Harley a few times and it's never brought up. She's basically Pre-FP PG and that book was treated like the editors were asleep. I imagine this will be similar. It's just for fun.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    She didn't sell well then and it's hard to justify giving PG a book from limbo when other characters are currently in the limelight and relegated to team books or less (Batwoman, Jessica, etc.)

    I love PG but if she just gets a random mini or ongoing, I don't know how it'll hold, especially since she won't have the JSA to interact with.

    As for her cameo, Jimmy and Amanda used her in Harley a few times and it's never brought up. She's basically Pre-FP PG and that book was treated like the editors were asleep. I imagine this will be similar. It's just for fun.
    That's a myth. She sold overall solidly in the middle range. The first issue of the Johns mini sold around 95,000 copies. By the 27th issue of her solo, she was down to just under 18,000, not great, but it had been getting small gains for a few months. And it was still FAR above what Cyborg's numbers have been with his solo titles, or the Jaime Reyes BB, both of whom were given multiple chances by DC, and pushed far more. Just as an example.

    Most of the drop in her title's sales happened in the Palmiotti/Gray/Connor run, most by the fifth issue. Evidently a lot of people, while initially enthusiastic about a PG solo, didn't like their take on the character. Sales were relatively stable in the other run, as I said trending mildly up near the end

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    That's a myth. She sold overall solidly in the middle range. The first issue of the Johns mini sold around 95,000 copies. By the 27th issue of her solo, she was down to just under 18,000, not great, but it had been getting small gains for a few months. And it was still FAR above what Cyborg's numbers have been with his solo titles, or the Jaime Reyes BB, both of whom were given multiple chances by DC, and pushed far more. Just as an example.

    Most of the drop in her title's sales happened in the Palmiotti/Gray/Connor run, most by the fifth issue. Evidently a lot of people, while initially enthusiastic about a PG solo, didn't like their take on the character. Sales were relatively stable in the other run, as I said trending mildly up near the end
    Myth? I bought it month to month and watched the sales. She didn't set the charts on fire and it killed me. I love PG but her sales said nothing inspiring. Trending up from their mid-to-bottom isn't selling well by any stretch. I absolutely want her to have a solo again, but by that same token, she's not the best property to convince someone to greenlight when her most recent books didn't do well either. Worlds' Finest didn't set the charts ablaze and the N52E2 saga didn't have the warmest reception either.

    Without the JSA to act as a leg to stand on, I'm just not sure how they can justify a PG book right now. It's really important to her status quo.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Myth? I bought it month to month and watched the sales. She didn't set the charts on fire and it killed me. I love PG but her sales said nothing inspiring. Trending up from their mid-to-bottom isn't selling well by any stretch. I absolutely want her to have a solo again, but by that same token, she's not the best property to convince someone to greenlight when her most recent books didn't do well either. Worlds' Finest didn't set the charts ablaze and the N52E2 saga didn't have the warmest reception either.

    Without the JSA to act as a leg to stand on, I'm just not sure how they can justify a PG book right now. It's really important to her status quo.
    Again, her solo was cancelled well above the then cancellation level for other books. And it was trending up, something that almost never happens. And too, it was technically cancelled because of Flashpoint. The nu 52 stuff was both terrible and completely mischaracterized Power Girl terribly, until much, much later in the nu52, when pretty much everyone had stopped reading Earth 2 anyway, so I wouldn't count that, much as I wouldn't count a much worse nu52 series, Mr. Terrific, a series that got a sequel in the current thing. And, as I've said, Cyborg sold much, much worse, as have the various Reyes Blue Beetle solos. So when those characters, and others, get multiple solo runs, and PG doesn't, I'd say that any argument against giving PG a solo---and recall she's Supergirl essentially, but with nearly a blank slate to work with.....PG's history, supporting cast, rogues' gallery, skills, desires, and virtually everything else are unknown or nearly so. Again, her Johns mini's first issue, (and admittedly it could have been much better), sold very well indeed, indicating interest in the character.

    What she needs is not only a solo, but a GOOD solo, and that's something PG has almost never had, good solo stories. Which seems to me to be why her solo dropped sales so rapidly in the first twelve issues; writing that didn't appeal to fans. It was one take on the character, but it just seemed not to fly. Put a Grant Morrison on a PG solo, and I think you might see something different.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Again, her solo was cancelled well above the then cancellation level for other books. And it was trending up, something that almost never happens. And too, it was technically cancelled because of Flashpoint. The nu 52 stuff was both terrible and completely mischaracterized Power Girl terribly, until much, much later in the nu52, when pretty much everyone had stopped reading Earth 2 anyway, so I wouldn't count that, much as I wouldn't count a much worse nu52 series, Mr. Terrific, a series that got a sequel in the current thing. And, as I've said, Cyborg sold much, much worse, as have the various Reyes Blue Beetle solos. So when those characters, and others, get multiple solo runs, and PG doesn't, I'd say that any argument against giving PG a solo---and recall she's Supergirl essentially, but with nearly a blank slate to work with.....PG's history, supporting cast, rogues' gallery, skills, desires, and virtually everything else are unknown or nearly so. Again, her Johns mini's first issue, (and admittedly it could have been much better), sold very well indeed, indicating interest in the character.

    What she needs is not only a solo, but a GOOD solo, and that's something PG has almost never had, good solo stories. Which seems to me to be why her solo dropped sales so rapidly in the first twelve issues; writing that didn't appeal to fans. It was one take on the character, but it just seemed not to fly. Put a Grant Morrison on a PG solo, and I think you might see something different.
    What I'm saying is that her solo don't do well enough to reach back and use as justification for launching today and her most recent titles struggled. Issue one of a four part solo story doing well by their then-golden boy and then three mid-to-low selling titles says that people were checking out Johns on PG as opposed to just PG. You can argue quality, but that doesn't really translate to financially viable which she needs to be to go for. It's possible, we are getting Inferior Five and the Metal Men, but what you're asking for is literally what everyone wants for each character. I'd argue they need to figure out what to do with Nightwing and Wally before tackling PG without a JSA. Arguably more commercially viable IPs/beloved characters than PG who peaked at B-List fan favorite.


    You could put Grant's name on a reprint and it would sell better. Come on. lol
    Last edited by Robanker; 12-13-2019 at 02:19 PM.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    What I'm saying is that her solo don't do well enough to reach back and use as justification for launching today and her most recent titles struggled. Issue one of a four part solo story doing well by their then-golden boy and then three mid-to-low selling titles says that people were checking out Johns on PG as opposed to just PG. You can argue quality, but that doesn't really translate to financially viable which she needs to be to go for. It's possible, we are getting Inferior Five and the Metal Men, but what you're asking for is literally what everyone wants for each character. I'd argue they need to figure out what to do with Nightwing and Wally before tackling PG without a JSA. Arguably more commercially viable IPs/beloved characters than PG who peaked at B-List fan favorite.


    You could put Grant's name on a reprint and it would sell better. Come on. lol
    Dick and Wally aren't connected to the question of whether or not they do a PG solo again, (which considering I'm in grave doubt she'll ever even appear at all again, is something I understand is likely never going to happen), so there's the character herself. She's Supergirl, only with a more interesting personality. And a nearly blank slate. Considering how big DC and WB have gone in on Supergirl, the opportunity to take a character that's basically a different take on her, with the opportunity to put enough of a different stamp on her to give her a big boost, isn't really a huge stretch.

    And wow, I worded that rather poorly...on well.

    But really, since "fixing" characters like Dick Grayson or Wally West doesn't depend in the slightest on anything to do with PG, and other, lower selling characters have been getting solo after solo, why not just take a chance on PG?
    Last edited by achilles; 12-13-2019 at 04:24 PM.

  14. #284
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Myth? I bought it month to month and watched the sales. She didn't set the charts on fire and it killed me.
    Brother, Power Girl was never going to be a chart topper. Being a reliable mid-tier title is the best it was ever going to achieve. And let's not forget, back in 2010 the industry was worse off than it is now, so 18K wasn't half as bad as it is today. Not great, don't get me wrong, but plenty of books have survived on less, and Karen's book likely would have kept going if not for the reboot. Karen's book, Booster Gold, Zatanna, a bunch of titles got killed off because of the reboot despite having reliable mid-tier sales. If we hadn't gotten the New52 it's entirely possible her book would still be going. And it'd probably still be a mid-level title, too.

    And no, those sales don't provide much incentive for DC to give her another solo. But there's a lot of other factors to look at too. I mean, Adam Strange is about to get his own maxiseries. Anything's possible!
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  15. #285
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Brother, Power Girl was never going to be a chart topper. Being a reliable mid-tier title is the best it was ever going to achieve. And let's not forget, back in 2010 the industry was worse off than it is now, so 18K wasn't half as bad as it is today. Not great, don't get me wrong, but plenty of books have survived on less, and Karen's book likely would have kept going if not for the reboot. Karen's book, Booster Gold, Zatanna, a bunch of titles got killed off because of the reboot despite having reliable mid-tier sales. If we hadn't gotten the New52 it's entirely possible her book would still be going. And it'd probably still be a mid-level title, too.

    And no, those sales don't provide much incentive for DC to give her another solo. But there's a lot of other factors to look at too. I mean, Adam Strange is about to get his own maxiseries. Anything's possible!
    Oh I knew it wouldn't be doing well, but I was hoping that her rising star, Conner on art and the quality of the book that she'd be at least high 20s/low thirties but she left there pretty quick. I wasn't expecting her to outsell Superman or something. My expectations were relative.

    And yeah, Zatanna getting canned hurt me too. I think both probably had a bit longer, PG more than Zatanna because she was, in fact, billed as one of their new faces of DC. I was thinking she'd make it to about 34 given sales at the time and history with books like Blue Beetle.


    Today? My highest hopes are a maxi and presence in the JSA as a primary character. My expectations? Maybe a mini by Jimmy and Amanda within 2-5 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Dick and Wally aren't connected to the question of whether or not they do a PG solo again, (which considering I'm in grave doubt she'll ever even appear at all again, is something I understand is likely never going to happen), so there's the character herself. She's Supergirl, only with a more interesting personality. And a nearly blank slate. Considering how big DC and WB have gone in on Supergirl, the opportunity to take a character that's basically a different take on her, with the opportunity to put enough of a different stamp on her to give her a big boost, isn't really a huge stretch.

    And wow, I worded that rather poorly...on well.

    But really, since "fixing" characters like Dick Grayson or Wally West doesn't depend in the slightest on anything to do with PG, and other, lower selling characters have been getting solo after solo, why not just take a chance on PG?
    I think they are pertinent insofar as DC has resources to direct onto projects and Dick or Wally are unarguably bigger than PG, therefor are more likely to generate greater revenue in sales/adaptions than, say, PG is. Their best artists generally are allocated to books which will get them exposure unless they're up-and-coming talents, in which case they're quickly moved onto bigger titles. Jorge Jiminez wasn't going to stay on Earth-2 or Super Sons forever. You won't waste, say, Morrison on PG if he has a pitch for someone bigger.

    Moreover, they took chances on PG. She was a focus in JSA/Justice Society of America/JSA v Kobra/Infinite Crisis, lead JSA All-Stars, had a mini to start JSA Classified, she had a solo, was a supporting cast member in Mister Terrific, co-lead Worlds' Finest and then was shuffled off into Earth-2 to get rushed into a romance with Val-Zod, destroy her own self-built identity by becoming Superwoman, and then swandived straight into limbo.

    She had a huge push and they seem to be giving her a rest because, sadly, returns kept diminishing. You can argue there was quality in the top half of their efforts that dissipated (and I'll generally agree there), but they genuinely were showcasing her for about a decade since Geoff positioned the character to succeed. Why not PG? Because though it pains me to admit it, she doesn't really make financial sense given that data. They can't kneecap Nightwing enough to make fans give up on the guy, and boy have they tried. They're pulling everything they can away and he still sells. He's the star of their flagship TV show on their streaming app. Fans cannot shut up about the dude.

    Who is talking about Karen except us old fans who love her dearly? What makes her more deserving of a solo than, say, Mera? Zatanna? Fire and Ice as a female Blue and Gold buddy book? Batwoman getting another shot given her TV show? Why not capitalize on Black Lightning given his show has three seasons right now?

    I don't pretend to have a business degree or insider knowledge, but when I look at their publishing line and its history, PG only ever gets big when she stars in a team book and can snowball that momentum into something else, and without her strongest tie to the DCU (the JSA) she really does just come down to "Supergirl with a more dynamic personality," but you have Supergirl. You have her TV show building interest. You can just keep changing her personality (as they have for 50 years) until something sticks and have higher returns than a PG without the JSA, Terra and no rogues or real supporting cast all her own. It all needs to be built, but without a leg to stand on she just comes across as an also-ran. She needs an angle. Launching a PG book just to be PG right now feels like the best way to give some half-effort push and then use its failure to be the final nail in her coffin.

    I would love a PG solo, but I think for that to work, she either needs a really strong hook/direction coming form an event (much as Infinite Crisis gave her) or she needs the JSA. On her own, there's just not enough to work with that they probably wouldn't just retool to make Supergirl sell better. Perhaps I'm too cynical. Let's just talk about something we love about the character.

    I adore how Amanda Conner made her generic cape clasp and belt into the Power symbol and gave her chunky wedges instead of heels. Feels like a smart redesign of an already great costume.
    Last edited by Robanker; 12-13-2019 at 08:46 PM.

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