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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Default Does Jon Kent need to follow superman's code of morality?

    Would you mind it if jon does not follow his father's code of morality including the no kill rule? He wears the symbol of the EL household. But, does he have to live by their standard. What portrayal do you like or want, jon-the rebel or jon-the dutiful?
    If he doesn't, What should be the thought process that fuel Jon's morality? What would you like Jon's motive to be other than being the son of superman?

    I would love it, if jon was sort of like lemillion aka mirio. His base philosophy should be "i might not be able to save everyone, but i will save at the very least _____ number of people". You know someone who has set a goal for himself to reach. The goal doesn't necessarily mean the end. It is just a check point.
    He can also be an advocate for non-violence. Someone who refuses to punch to confront evil.Jon is part of the action genre. So, doing this will be a challenge. Might be impossible. Maybe,he could be someone who always chooses the path that leads to the least amount of blood shed.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    He wasn't raised by Jonathen and Martha, so not exactly. He's definitely his father's son, but also Lois's and he should have a bit of her cynicism and stubbornness.

    And give him her eyes. He looks too much like Clark.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    When it happened to Jason Todd, it's because he realized that the law is powerless against a serial rapist protected by diplomatic immunity.

    Some kind of similar realization that he experiences personally can make Jon feel that his father's method is wrong or inadequate

  4. #4
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    They already did this storyline more or less with Lightning Lad I believe. He killed a creature and was tried by the LOSH where in Superboy stood up for him or something like that, it's been a long time since I read the storyline I just remember it being considered a classic. Granted that was Silver-Age Superman and this is Post-Crisis/Rebirth Superman. Even then I don't think he'd mind much if his son killed when he had too, if he's just doing it because he wants to prove he's tough or whatever I think he'd kick his sons ass and show him what it means to actually be "tough".
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    They already did this storyline more or less with Lightning Lad I believe. He killed a creature and was tried by the LOSH where in Superboy stood up for him or something like that, it's been a long time since I read the storyline I just remember it being considered a classic. Granted that was Silver-Age Superman and this is Post-Crisis/Rebirth Superman. Even then I don't think he'd mind much if his son killed when he had too, if he's just doing it because he wants to prove he's tough or whatever I think he'd kick his sons ass and show him what it means to actually be "tough".
    That was Starboy not Lightning Lad.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member qwertyuiop1998's Avatar
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    I hope so, There are enough rebel heroes all around there. Makes me feel a more typical hero is more interesting.
    I don't mind if he is more cynicism and stubbornness just like his mom though
    Last edited by qwertyuiop1998; 12-22-2019 at 06:19 AM.
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  7. #7
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I think neither rebel nor dutiful. Jon's not just following dad's orders because they are dad's orders. But Clark did instill his own values in his son. So did Lois. But Clark and Lois are usually largely in agreement in regards to Superman killing (normal caveats regarding long history and multiple writers). Killing should be a last resort when there is no other option, as it usually has been for Clark. I do [b]not/b] like the gray-ification of so many heroes. So many secret prisons and people imprisoned without trials and the mindwipes, etc. But WW killing Max Lord type of thing - necessary, IMO, as there wasn't any other way to stop him (feel similarly about Zod in movie). It may or may not tear up Jon to do such a thing - I don't want him going all split-identity Gangbuster, but I don't want him to find it totally easy, either. A middle ground in that regard. But always look for another way, and want those around him to do the same.

    I miss really good heroes. Publishers like to have the shock value now (okay, for 20 or 30 years) of heroes doing horrible things or allowing colleagues to so (or hanging out/teaming up with former mass murderers who show no regret), and that's just not my thing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I think neither rebel nor dutiful. Jon's not just following dad's orders because they are dad's orders. But Clark did instill his own values in his son. So did Lois. But Clark and Lois are usually largely in agreement in regards to Superman killing (normal caveats regarding long history and multiple writers). Killing should be a last resort when there is no other option, as it usually has been for Clark. I do [b]not/b] like the gray-ification of so many heroes. So many secret prisons and people imprisoned without trials and the mindwipes, etc. But WW killing Max Lord type of thing - necessary, IMO, as there wasn't any other way to stop him (feel similarly about Zod in movie). It may or may not tear up Jon to do such a thing - I don't want him going all split-identity Gangbuster, but I don't want him to find it totally easy, either. A middle ground in that regard. But always look for another way, and want those around him to do the same.

    I miss really good heroes. Publishers like to have the shock value now (okay, for 20 or 30 years) of heroes doing horrible things or allowing colleagues to so (or hanging out/teaming up with former mass murderers who show no regret), and that's just not my thing.
    I agree with most of your comments!! I'm really sick of heroes teaming up with murderers or even trying to make a criminal a hero love interest!! I miss the days when I was a kid, I could go to the store down the street buy a comic book and read about heroes with a code!! Now it's getting harder to tell the heroes from the criminals!! It seem the writers of today find it more interesting writing about heroes behaving more like criminals!! Heroes having a code or values is something of the past with today writers!
    Last edited by lotchj; 12-22-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotchj View Post
    I agree with most of your comments!! I'm really sick of heroes teaming up with murderers or even trying to make a criminal a hero love interest!! I miss the days when I was a kid, I could go to the store down the street buy a comic book and read about heroes with a code!! Now it's getting harder to tell the heroes from the criminals!! It seem the writers of today find it more interesting writing about heroes behaving more like criminals!! Heroes having a code or values is something of the past with today writers!
    Technically, superman himself and superheroes in general are criminals. They are just a glorified, that's all. Batcat or other relationships of the like has no reason to not to exist.superman and can team up with the likes of jason,cause like i said clark was an outlaw himself.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Technically, superman himself and superheroes in general are criminals. They are just a glorified, that's all. Batcat or other relationships of the like has no reason to not to exist.superman and can team up with the likes of jason,cause like i said clark was an outlaw himself.
    I couldn't disagree with you more!!!!

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotchj View Post
    I couldn't disagree with you more!!!!
    Disagreeing with me, doesn't change reality. Superman is a criminal. He was an outlaw. Every version of the character takes law into his own hands. They are all just vigilantes, nothing more or nothing less.

  12. #12
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I would imagine Jon Kent, as portrayed currently, wouldn't care all that much about morality or the world at large. His father was a refugee, the last of his kind, raised by working class people- he sees the world as it is. Jon hasn't struggled at all, and I'd imagine it'd colour his interactions. Unless Superman deeply instilled in him altruism, which he has not been shown to do at all, I'd imagine he would act like a kid who has everything and plays minor lip service to his dads' ideals (mainly out of respect for his father, but nothing more).

    Now of course this could all change, and Jon could be shown to struggle and grow as an individual but just going off what we've seen so far (a child, suddenly a young adult)- I'm not sure.

  13. #13
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I would imagine Jon Kent, as portrayed currently, wouldn't care all that much about morality or the world at large. His father was a refugee, the last of his kind, raised by working class people- he sees the world as it is. Jon hasn't struggled at all, and I'd imagine it'd colour his interactions. Unless Superman deeply instilled in him altruism, which he has not been shown to do at all, I'd imagine he would act like a kid who has everything and plays minor lip service to his dads' ideals (mainly out of respect for his father, but nothing more).

    Now of course this could all change, and Jon could be shown to struggle and grow as an individual but just going off what we've seen so far (a child, suddenly a young adult)- I'm not sure.
    Your read here genuinely baffles me as anything you're seriously proposing as the intent for the character as seen on the page.

    I'm seriously asking: are you currently reading or following the book he's been shown in at all to have come to this conclusion? I genuinely asking.
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  14. #14
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Despite me REALLY not wanting Jon to just be modern Clark, the one thing I do wanna see him keep from his father is that moral compass. We got enough dark Supermen to last a life time and they all suck (looking at you, in particular, Injustice Superman). Jon can be rebellious and have his own thing in more ways than just going dark. He can question or even change the way his Dad did things without becoming the Super family equivalent to Jason. That's just....not Jon. Granted, he's hasn't really been himself lately anyway but going that route would make him even less of himself.

    Although it would be nice if he's a bit more lax on the whole "doing what you gotta do for the greater good" thing than his dad was. Yes I'm still salty about Clark's treatment of Diana after the Maxwell Lord incident. Hell that's one of the reasons I stopped bothering with Superman until Rebirth XD

    After what happened with Manchester Black, I do think Jon going momentarily bad/dark only to come to his senses and work towards being a better hero is a good idea...but not for so long that it's what defines him and his place in the Superman mythos the same way it does for Red Hood
    Last edited by Blue22; 12-22-2019 at 02:00 PM.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I think Jon would/will have more in common with Clark than they disagree, but I *do* think there'll be disagreements. On what, precisely, who knows? But as much as Jon is Clark's son he's also Lois' and more to the point, he's lived a life neither of them have. He's had his own experiences which will shape him just as much if not more than the lessons his parents taught him. What do you think spending months trapped in a earth-3 volcano, and then spending more months living on that world, did to Jon' worldview?

    But this really depends on how you see Clark too. Someone said he's not an outlaw, someone else said he was. Depending on how you see Clark, maybe Jon's more of a rebel or maybe he's more like his dad.

    However you slice it though, I wish there was more Lois in Jon. I love the idea that Jon has his mother's eyes.
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