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  1. #256
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    What I was sort of asking though was along those lines, what about PG would make her different from SG to a casual fan. Basically what role does she play that is unique.
    Separating her from Kara doesn't seem too difficult. They're different ages, don't really look or (usually) act the same, go by (admittedly only slightly) different names (Kara and Karen), etc. Kara is written as either a teen or someone in their very, very early 20's while Karen is closer to Clark's age and is already well established in her career. Making these two distinct from each other doesn't seem any harder than making Dick Grayson and Jason Todd distinct.

    Though I've also suggested switching Karen's powers around. She's from another universe, who's to say that the yellow sun on main earth affects her the way earth 2's sun did? I'd love to see her have ice vision and fire breath, just to help play up the fact that Karen's a different breed of Kryptonian.....but that makes her too much like Bizarro, regretfully, and changing her power set too much takes away what little "Super-connections" she gets to have.

    Since I feel I'm not explaining my question that well, an example.
    No, I understood what you were saying man. That's why I said
    "In-universe, I don't think Karen needs a unique niche (like super-spy, best detective, strongest there is, etc) unless you're trying to build her into a A-list property."
    In my opinion, the only characters who absolutely have to be at the top of their fields are the A-list characters you want at the top of the company line (and even that can be non-tangibles like "best Everyman" or "best anti-hero"). The B- and C-list heroes *can* be the best in their fields, and several are (like Magnus, Palmer, Stein, etc) but if they're just "working class" heroes that's fine too. I love Power Girl and I want the character to be successful, but as long as she gets quality use I'm fine with her not being the greatest hero at any particular thing. She's still incredibly capable, powerful, and resourceful as is.

    But if you want Karen to be the best in her field, then you could always double down on the business stuff and carve a unique spot out for her in DC's corporate landscape. If you run with the idea of Karen investing in the Power Company, right there you've got the chance to make Karen the Queen of For-Hire Heroes. Or you could have Starrware (or whatever her company is called) be the world's leading company in space travel technology. Sort of make Karen the DCU's Elon Musk.

    Or you could lean into her "black sheep of the Super-family" thing. Which, ironically, would probably make her more involved with Clark and his clan, since you'd have to include Karen in their get-togethers to highlight how she's the black sheep. If Jason Todd can build a niche out of being the resident d-bag in the Batcave, Karen can make a similar "outsider" role for herself work. But this is more "theme" than "in-universe area of expertise."
    Last edited by Ascended; 12-04-2019 at 02:22 PM.
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  2. #257
    Fantastic Member The_Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Quite good indeed. But there's also Stepan...er, however you spell his name, (sorry, I just can't spell), whoever did the cover for Power Girl #27, AH! for covers, Ema..., that lady who does that very fine art for DC, um...any Benes, though I'd like to see others try, Ed has drawn her before. Connor of course is famous for her use of the character among other things.

    So...question here, who would people like on both art and writing should there ever be another PG solo? And what would your favorite hook for her be, keeping in mind that DC and WB seemingly have problems with her being just an alternate universe version of SG? In other words, what would her niche in DC be, what does she offer or do that no one else in DC does.
    Besides all the good ideas in this and the previous thread they should start by dropping the ancient notion that PG is a SG knockoff. It was the intention to have her be another Earths variant of SG a million years ago; but for all their face value similarities (Kryptonian powers; shared heartbeat, female blonde) her development made her a completely different individual. One, I dare say considering SG constant rebooted state and lack of any development for 20y after the COIE, that has actually more to offer as a more detailed and feature rich character.

    Thats not meant as a diss towards SG. I like her; I know both; they are very different.
    Last edited by The_Lurk; 12-04-2019 at 09:47 PM.

  3. #258
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lurk View Post
    Besides all the good ideas in this and the previous thread they should start by dropping the ancient notion that PG is a SG knockoff. It was the intention to have her be another Earths variant of SG a million years ago; but for all their face value similarities (Kryptonian powers; shared heartbeat, female blonde) her development made her a completely different individual. One, I dare say considering SG constant rebooted state and lack of any development for 20y after the COIE, that has actually more to offer as a more detailed and feature rich character.

    Thats not meant as a diss towards SG. I like her; I know both; they are very different.
    You can't really drop it when she's genuinely Kara Zor-L and Superman's cousin, just a different one.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Separating her from Kara doesn't seem too difficult. They're different ages, don't really look or (usually) act the same, go by (admittedly only slightly) different names (Kara and Karen), etc. Kara is written as either a teen or someone in their very, very early 20's while Karen is closer to Clark's age and is already well established in her career. Making these two distinct from each other doesn't seem any harder than making Dick Grayson and Jason Todd distinct.

    Though I've also suggested switching Karen's powers around. She's from another universe, who's to say that the yellow sun on main earth affects her the way earth 2's sun did? I'd love to see her have ice vision and fire breath, just to help play up the fact that Karen's a different breed of Kryptonian.....but that makes her too much like Bizarro, regretfully, and changing her power set too much takes away what little "Super-connections" she gets to have.



    No, I understood what you were saying man. That's why I said In my opinion, the only characters who absolutely have to be at the top of their fields are the A-list characters you want at the top of the company line (and even that can be non-tangibles like "best Everyman" or "best anti-hero"). The B- and C-list heroes *can* be the best in their fields, and several are (like Magnus, Palmer, Stein, etc) but if they're just "working class" heroes that's fine too. I love Power Girl and I want the character to be successful, but as long as she gets quality use I'm fine with her not being the greatest hero at any particular thing. She's still incredibly capable, powerful, and resourceful as is.

    But if you want Karen to be the best in her field, then you could always double down on the business stuff and carve a unique spot out for her in DC's corporate landscape. If you run with the idea of Karen investing in the Power Company, right there you've got the chance to make Karen the Queen of For-Hire Heroes. Or you could have Starrware (or whatever her company is called) be the world's leading company in space travel technology. Sort of make Karen the DCU's Elon Musk.

    Or you could lean into her "black sheep of the Super-family" thing. Which, ironically, would probably make her more involved with Clark and his clan, since you'd have to include Karen in their get-togethers to highlight how she's the black sheep. If Jason Todd can build a niche out of being the resident d-bag in the Batcave, Karen can make a similar "outsider" role for herself work. But this is more "theme" than "in-universe area of expertise."
    Black sheep of the Superman Family? That sounds interesting. I am indeed interested in DC pushing her as an A-Lister. They were apparently at least giving it a think back when her solo was around, listing her and Damian and Cyborg and one or two others I don't recall as DC's "New Icons" in a very short lived ad campaign. I'd like to see them back that up somehow.

    The name bit is a problem, since Karen is technically STILL Kara Zor-L and the exact same person Supergirl is, only from an alternate universe. They just sort of settled on calling her by her human name rather than her "real" one to distinguish her from SG. But that seems to have the effect in DC of their downplaying that she's Kryptonian, and sort of just seeming to shelve her because they don't seem to know what they want to do with her.
    Last edited by achilles; 12-05-2019 at 06:38 AM.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    You can't really drop it when she's genuinely Kara Zor-L and Superman's cousin, just a different one.
    Yeah, that's sort of my point. And worst of all about that is that DC and WB themselves seem to view it as an existential problem for the character. I'm thinking they have to change her relationship to Superman for them to be truly comfortable using her. That said, IMO she needs to be Kryptonian, needs to be closely connected to Superman.

  6. #261
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    I once wrote up an idea for an animated series about an organization of superheroes that defended the multiverse. Power Girl was one of the characters I proposed.

    https://cbros5.tumblr.com/post/18296...mda-multiverse
    Last edited by Agent Z; 12-05-2019 at 07:55 PM.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I once wrote up an idea for an animated about an organization of superheroes that defended the multiverse. Power Girl was one of the characters I proposed.

    https://cbros5.tumblr.com/post/18296...mda-multiverse
    Sweet idea! There are many great possibilities for PG, and I do like this one; it's rooted in her history, and gives her that niche. But haven't there been teams and individuals that do that? I don't know, but it seems to me that someone would have tried that.

    My roster would be a bit different though. I'd put Booster in for his time experience, and maybe Ted for his tech...and both for their relationship with PG. It would be fun to see the old JLE/JLI roster together again, especially if somehow that was all still in continuity. Come to think of it, Fire and Ice aren't doing anything much now, are they? Or Captain Atom? Sadly, I think Guy's accounted for; I'd love to see more of that semi-hostile relationship. Somebody mystical would be a good idea too. Maybe Bloodwynd? Bring him back perhaps? Or Z? Dr. Fate?

    What did you see as PG's role on your team? I think it might be nice to give more emphasis to the briefly revealed fact that she's actually brilliant...and knows quite a bit about (presumably Kryptonian) science and tech, (recall that James Robinson scene in that JLA/JSA crossover about Alan Scott being taken over by the Starheart where she and SG instantly understood what Mr. Terrific evidently thought was a very hard technical problem). That part of her character, referenced a few other places, has rarely been explored, and someone with a superior knowledge of Kryptonian tech would be very useful, one would think. That, powerhouse, and possibly team leader would be my role for her.

    How about making her somehow a part of that Rao/Cythonna thing from Last God of Krypton? Not inserting her into THAT story, but using that as some sort of backdrop for her story? I'm not sure myself. I can see good and bad things about doing something like that.
    Last edited by achilles; 12-05-2019 at 08:21 AM.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Sweet idea! There are many great possibilities for PG, and I do like this one; it's rooted in her history, and gives her that niche. But haven't there been teams and individuals that do that
    Not to my knowledge.

    My roster would be a bit different though. I'd put Booster in for his time experience, and maybe Ted for his tech...and both for their relationship with PG. It would be fun to see the old JLE/JLI roster together again, especially if somehow that was all still in continuity. Come to think of it, Fire and Ice aren't doing anything much now, are they? Or Captain Atom? Sadly, I think Guy's accounted for; I'd love to see more of that semi-hostile relationship. Somebody mystical would be a good idea too. Maybe Bloodwynd? Bring him back perhaps? Or Z? Dr. Fate?
    Some of these could work. I’d rather Fire and Ice have their own solo stories apart from the team for a while though.

    What did you see as PG's role on your team? I think it might be nice to give more emphasis to the briefly revealed fact that she's actually brilliant...and knows quite a bit about (presumably Kryptonian) science and tech, (recall that James Robinson scene in that JLA/JSA crossover about Alan Scott being taken over by the Starheart where she and SG instantly understood what Mr. Terrific evidently thought was a very hard technical problem). That part of her character, referenced a few other places, has rarely been explored, and someone with a superior knowledge of Kryptonian tech would be very useful, one would think. That, powerhouse, and possibly team leader would be my role for her.
    An idea for an arc I had was Karen having suffered an injury that put her out of commission for a while and she decided to contribute to the organization with her skill with computers until she was ready to get back to field duty. Beyond that I didn’t think much of what to do for her role or anyone else’s. I just knew who I wanted and what their skills would be.

    How about making her somehow a part of that Rao/Cythonna thing from Last God of Krypton? Not inserting her into THAT story, but using that as some sort of backdrop for her story? I'm not sure myself. I can see good and bad things about doing something like that.
    Haven’t thought much about Cythonna (DC has a lot of ice villains don’t they?). I guess that could be a villain Karen could deal with in her solo.

  9. #264
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Yeah, that's sort of my point. And worst of all about that is that DC and WB themselves seem to view it as an existential problem for the character. I'm thinking they have to change her relationship to Superman for them to be truly comfortable using her. That said, IMO she needs to be Kryptonian, needs to be closely connected to Superman.
    I think most fans agree her classic Earth-2 Kara origin is best, but there's a contingency of fans (and many are in editorial) who hate characters they feel are redundant so much that rather than simply ignoring them if a story doesn't require them, they need to remove them with extreme prejudice. It's not enough that Wally exists in another book but Barry is the main Flash, he needs to be drawn, quartered and executed to show just how lame the current dungeon master at DC thinks he is. PG usually gets passed that, but I do worry they'll just see her as someone to meld into SG and then abandoned should she prove more popular than SG for an extended period.

    Current editorial sucks pretty bad if you like the B-or-below list.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I think most fans agree her classic Earth-2 Kara origin is best, but there's a contingency of fans (and many are in editorial) who hate characters they feel are redundant so much that rather than simply ignoring them if a story doesn't require them, they need to remove them with extreme prejudice. It's not enough that Wally exists in another book but Barry is the main Flash, he needs to be drawn, quartered and executed to show just how lame the current dungeon master at DC thinks he is. PG usually gets passed that, but I do worry they'll just see her as someone to meld into SG and then abandoned should she prove more popular than SG for an extended period.

    Current editorial sucks pretty bad if you like the B-or-below list.
    All of those problems could be solved if she only had a vocal advocate at DC and WB with the power to make things happen. Absent that however, yes, she's having those problems I think. In fact, I think that's where they were going with Tanya Spears; an attempt to phase the original idea of PG altogether in favor of someone not at all relate to Krypton. She may still be, I don't know. But I personally think that DC is wrong if they think Supergirl can't co-exist with Power Girl and have both characters thrive.

  11. #266
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Black sheep of the Superman Family? That sounds interesting. I am indeed interested in DC pushing her as an A-Lister. They were apparently at least giving it a think back when her solo was around, listing her and Damian and Cyborg and one or two others I don't recall as DC's "New Icons" in a very short lived ad campaign. I'd like to see them back that up somehow.
    Man I miss her solo. That brief era of DC did look so promising.

    Anyway, if you want her pushed into the A-list....like I said, you can make her company the world's leading aeronautics company (since Ferris Aircraft has been abandoned along with all the other earth-based elements of Green Lantern), so any trip a hero might take into deep space, they go talk to Karen (no one wants to uber across the galaxy with Guy Gardner!). Or you tie her into the Power Company. You could stick with the "heroes for hire" premise of the original Company, or spin it into something else. Hey, back in Countdown to Infinite Crisis, Max Lord said there's thousands of metahumans on the planet. But there's only some dozen who put on capes and pick fights with each other. What do the others do? Perhaps many of those other metahumans work for the Power Company; renting out their abilities not as private security or as body guards, but to help in natural disasters, humanitarian crises, science and exploration, who knows? Maybe Karen's Power Company finds non-violent work for metas while also serving as a kind of union to protect them? That would actually open up a whole new aspect of the DCU we almost never see; the place where the fantastical meets the mundane.

    Or make her a multiverse protector. I'd like to see that role for Wally West myself, but I wouldn't be adverse to Karen joining him on a team (especially if it's Justice Incarnate).

    If DC were keeping earths 1 and 2 separate (doesn't seem like it), she could have also served as the main bridge between them. Certainly not as the only person able to get from one world to another, but the character with a foot always in both. I believe too much back-and-forth in the multiverse can become a problem long-term but I could see Karen being the exception that proves the rule. That'd serve several business purposes as well as creative ones, too.

    The name bit is a problem, since Karen is technically STILL Kara Zor-L and the exact same person Supergirl is, only from an alternate universe. They just sort of settled on calling her by her human name rather than her "real" one to distinguish her from SG. But that seems to have the effect in DC of their downplaying that she's Kryptonian, and sort of just seeming to shelve her because they don't seem to know what they want to do with her.
    The origin isn't a problem. The general audience has proven they are down with alternate realities. Just look at Fringe; that show was big in its day and it was all about this exact thing. Karen and Kara are two very different people so there's no fear of overlap there. The powersets are the same, but how many people in comics, at DC and Marvel, are flying bricks? Tons. F**king truck loads, right? Karen's in good company.
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  12. #267

  13. #268
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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  14. #269
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I love them both!
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

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  15. #270
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Those both look great, the second in particular because it so perfectly captures her sassier side.

    And yeah, I adored her solo from 2009. I miss it so much.

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