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  1. #16
    Spectacular Member The_Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    According to the Superman encyclopedia they were. Now, if that had been established by the time that particular story had ran, I don't know. Keep in mind, that story was written early on in her existence so how much of her backstory had been established by then is unclear. All we know is that Superman kept her in hiding until her first appearance.
    Aye. Don't think we got much about that back then either; in the early annual crisis JSA/JLA meetups they did not told much about that (at least as far as I remember). By Infinite Crisis the daughter like relationship to E2 Lois & Clark was IMO very believable told the way they where portrayed; but that was 2005.

    To add to the creepy factor:





    To her defense; there she is possessed by Lust personified which escaped Shazam together with the other Sins.
    Last edited by The_Lurk; 01-03-2019 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member juan678's Avatar
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  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I've read a few pages that people post online, but I still don't know about her beyond that. I don't really know her personality. I don't know if I should read her classic Supergirl. Like does that even matter when she's an adult now, in different earth, and the classic Supergirl origin has been adapted for the current Supergirl?

    Where is she now? Last I saw her New 52 version was in Earth 2, but there's also a classic Power Girl cameo in the background of Rebirth comics.
    Well, her history is pretty weird and confusing. Not quite "Black Canary" confusing, but close enough.

    These days, her baseline standard origin is that she's the Kara Zor-El (or sometimes -L) from an alternate earth. Her origin is basically the same as Supergirl's; cousin to Superman, also sent to earth. But her world died (or so she believes) in a big Crisis (or Darkseid invasion) and she ends up on the main earth where she goes by "Karen Starr" and is some form of influential business person while operating as the hero Power Girl.

    Far as I know, right now she is still trapped between dimensions and the few people still around who know her think that she's dead.

    So, guys. Question. Power Girl and Nightwing. Is that a ship you could sail? Because I very much want that to happen.
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  4. #19
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, her history is pretty weird and confusing. Not quite "Black Canary" confusing, but close enough.

    These days, her baseline standard origin is that she's the Kara Zor-El (or sometimes -L) from an alternate earth. Her origin is basically the same as Supergirl's; cousin to Superman, also sent to earth. But her world died (or so she believes) in a big Crisis (or Darkseid invasion) and she ends up on the main earth where she goes by "Karen Starr" and is some form of influential business person while operating as the hero Power Girl.

    Far as I know, right now she is still trapped between dimensions and the few people still around who know her think that she's dead.

    So, guys. Question. Power Girl and Nightwing. Is that a ship you could sail? Because I very much want that to happen.
    I don't care for that ship for one key reason, and it's one that makes me dislike a lot of crossover pairings: history. To be blunt, certain characters have their love lives mapped out with one, maybe two options that will always repeat. Clark and Lois, Bruce and Selina, Barry and Iris, Ollie and Dinah, Dick and either Barbara or Starfire (and he'll pendulum between them as one pairing waxes to the other's wane). If you like offbeat pairings, well they're doomed to fail when an adaption or nostalgic changing-of-the-guard sets in every few years. This isn't specific to relationships, more just comics in general (Wally will be alive and running again as at least a Flash eventually), but it's something we can't ignore. It reminds a little of when DC tries to shack Bruce and Diana up; he's the only one who gains anything. Her development is essentially put on hold, as is her supporting cast, until Bruce misses Selina. When that happens, Bruce is back to what works and Diana is back to "who is her love interest, what is her supporting cast now, etc." PG is in a similar boat without the merch power Wonder Woman has. I'm just glad "survivor of Earth-2, Superman's cousin, ties to JSA" is sticking at this point.

    Shawn had no chance with Dick, I don't see it working for Kara either. That said, it'd be refreshing for a little while and I can see them gracing "hottest super couple" tabloids for a long while in the DCU given both their reputations.

    Nightwing would probably grow based on his brief relationship with Kara until Barbara or possibly Starfire (which hasn't seriously rekindled in the comics for a long time) come back into the picture, where he'll return to a successful status quo and Kara is back to not having a good love interest, supporting cast and nothing really to fall back on in story direction.

    It's a fun idea, but it actually doesn't help PG much. She'd need someone without a string attached to them. I could have sworn Jimmy, Justin and Amanda were sowing the seeds for her to take interest in Doctor Mid-Nite back in their run... The seventh issue, if I recall. The Vaartox one. She bombs in on one of his solo encounters to just hang out, she jokes about her love life which she generally doesn't do, and he's in Lois' place on the homage cover. I know, I'm probably reading into it, but it reminded me of someone she'd be interested in being juxtaposed with the exact opposite, a guy so toxic in masculinity he's weaponized it. But I like it primarily because he's quite opposite of her in terms of personality. She's louder, more aggressive and with some real sass to her when she's not angsting over her lost worlds. Pieter is a quieter, more introspective person driven by fact, faith and generally quite patient. Their power sets are inverses of one another (raw physical prowess versus intellect and precision) and each could help develop the other in ways not generally organic to themselves. Of course there's also the sweet irony of a character often referred to for her figure and naught else being paired with the blind man is fun in itself.

    It allows for a serious take as well as some fun and comedy, which is a good place for PG to live.

    He's about two tiers below her in popularity if I had to guess, and generally has no real connection to any superheroes romantically (sans a short relationship with Black Canary), so I can see it having a more lasting impact on each of their histories. That said, I did love the Terrific/Mid-Nite brain trust and that may get awkward since she and Michael briefly dated post-Flashpoint. Who knows anymore?

    I'm also fine with Kara just being happy single. That's increasingly rare these days.
    Last edited by Robanker; 01-07-2019 at 10:19 PM.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, her history is pretty weird and confusing. Not quite "Black Canary" confusing, but close enough.

    These days, her baseline standard origin is that she's the Kara Zor-El (or sometimes -L) from an alternate earth. Her origin is basically the same as Supergirl's; cousin to Superman, also sent to earth. But her world died (or so she believes) in a big Crisis (or Darkseid invasion) and she ends up on the main earth where she goes by "Karen Starr" and is some form of influential business person while operating as the hero Power Girl.

    Far as I know, right now she is still trapped between dimensions and the few people still around who know her think that she's dead.

    So, guys. Question. Power Girl and Nightwing. Is that a ship you could sail? Because I very much want that to happen.
    I didn't even know Black Canary has a confusing history

    Power Girl and Nightwing will make the hottest babies. Like, the best ass in DCU meets the best boobs in DCU? XD

  6. #21
    Incredible Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    I'm all for nightwing and power girl. I'd love it! Someone brought up history, but thats what's holding nightwing and Pg back. Nightwing's history has so much focus he's living in the past and has become just another robin. Earth 2 should be Pg's past not present.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Nightwing is more of a player. I don't see him being in a serious relationship of any kind, honestly. And if you think PG's history is confusing, you should check out BC. Like PG, she was originally from Earth 2 but moved to Earth 1 to be with GA. But her powers came from some sort of spell put on her in the womb or something and she had to be put in some sort of limbo dimension and aged up or something? I don't remember it all. But she basically took over for her mother for a time on Earth 2. Basically it started when fans started realizing the Earth 2 BC was too old to be dating the Earth 1 GA and they needed some sort of in-continuity explanation for why they were both the same age and they made her the original BC daughter. Unlike PG, the merger after COIE actually helped clear up her history. I would argue she was one of the few heroes who benefited from it.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I didn't even know Black Canary has a confusing history

    Power Girl and Nightwing will make the hottest babies. Like, the best ass in DCU meets the best boobs in DCU? XD
    Oh yeah, Canary's history is weird as f**k. She started out as a member of the JSA on earth-2 (well, she was introduced before separate earths became a thing) and had a daughter who was put in a coma for.....reasons. I think the powers she got (from that magic spell mentioned already or whatever it was) were too dangerous or something. And Canary starts dating the Green Arrow of earth-1, who was much younger than her, and she moved from earth-2 to earth-1. Eventually she has her mind put into her daughter's body while she and Ollie just keep on like nothing happened and......it's just weird as hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I don't care for that ship for one key reason, and it's one that makes me dislike a lot of crossover pairings: history.
    You've got great points, (I usually dont like crossover pairings either) but I don't think history is going to be enough for Dick's former relationships to carry any serious weight again. We're not talking Lois Lane here. We'll get teases, but I don't think the trigger will actually be pulled on either again.

    As long as Babs is starring or co-starring in her own book she's going to have writers who want to do their own things with her. Which means the relationship between Dick and Babs is always going to be going off course because their respective writers have their own stories and ideas to tell. We've had teases about them getting back together but it hasn't actually happened (for more than two minutes anyway) and won't ever get beyond that point, for logistics reasons if nothing else. We saw the kind of problems this can cause in the Superman-Wonder Woman relationship; they were part of the same editorial office, but their writers couldn't play with the dynamic for fear of stepping on the toes of the other book's plans. And we all know how bad DC is at communication.

    And as long as Dick is a part of the Bat office and that office is determined to downplay everything about Dick that didn't come from Gotham, a relationship with Kori isn't happening either. DC likes to pretend that Dick's time under the Titans office didn't happen, or at best that his involvement with the team went no deeper than Bruce's involvement with the League (a job, not a home). So Kori is out as a potential love interest too, simply because DC doesn't seem to want the reminder and dont want fans to remember how vital the NTT era was for Dick's character and development.

    Now, that's a problem with Karen too, and obviously this pairing I'm suggesting isnt going to happen under current management and is just for lol's. But Karen-Dick offers a few benefits Kori and Babs don't. For one, DC is strengthening the ties between the Bat and Super families. We see Bruce and Clark cameo in each other's books often, and among their "kids" we have a lot of connections too: Babs-Kara, Damian-Jon, Tim-Conner. Putting Dick and Karen together pairs each of the prime Bat kids (aside from Jason) to a Super. It's the World's Finest and DC seems perfectly happy to push that dynamic right now.

    Karen doesn't have a book these days and is unlikely to get one (unfortunately). The best she's likely to get is a spot in the JSA when they eventually return. And there's little room for character development in a team book, especially one with a roster as big as the JSA usually boasts. So pairing Karen with Dick, putting her in the Bat office as a part of Dick's supporting cast while loaning her out to the JSA, actually gives her a place where she can get some character development as well as extra panel time. And just because she's dating Dick doesn't mean her subplots have to revolve around their relationship. Additionally, Karen's (presumed) role with the JSA offers an easy explanation for why she doesn't just swoop in and do all the work for Dick. While he's fighting his villains, Karen's with her team fighting their's. Or on her own, or with Harley, or whatever. Point is, Karen's a busy woman and she doesn't have time to fix Dick's problems for him (as she shouldn't).

    Also, one of the biggest problems with Babs and Kori are the fans of the other woman. Each pairing has a pretty substantial fanbase and neither will really be thrilled to see the other side "win." By using Karen, no one gets what they think they want but everyone might be able to agree on the new pairing. And Karen and Dick bring new narrative options to each other. Through Dick you can involve Karen in mystery and spy stories and other street level narratives where the problem can't simply be solved with super strength. Through Karen, Dick gains easy access to sci-fi and science fantasy narratives. DC seems perfectly willing to let Bats do high concept adventures, as long as they're with a Super.

    And Karen would benefit from the higher profile. She's not nearly as big an IP as Nightwing is, so the tie to him will only help increase her visibility (granted she should be getting more time with Clark too). And as long as she's written properly and not as a 1950's damsel in distress, being a supporting cast member and love interest isn't going to "reduce" her as a character. Plus we'll likely have her punching things in JSA, so between the two titles we could have a fairly well rounded and developed Power Girl; possibly more than we would if she were only in one title.

    Plus I just think they'd have a great dynamic. And really, who else is a viable love interest for Karen friggin Star? That woman is a force of nature and would just decimate most men.
    Last edited by Ascended; 01-08-2019 at 09:28 AM.
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Plus I just think they'd have a great dynamic. And really, who else is a viable love interest for Karen friggin Star? That woman is a force of nature and would just decimate most men.
    You're not thinking wide enough…

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  10. #25
    Mighty Member Kon93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    You're not thinking wide enough…

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    4chan is calling you back
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  11. #26
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh yeah, Canary's history is weird as f**k. She started out as a member of the JSA on earth-2 (well, she was introduced before separate earths became a thing) and had a daughter who was put in a coma for.....reasons. I think the powers she got (from that magic spell mentioned already or whatever it was) were too dangerous or something. And Canary starts dating the Green Arrow of earth-1, who was much younger than her, and she moved from earth-2 to earth-1. Eventually she has her mind put into her daughter's body while she and Ollie just keep on like nothing happened and......it's just weird as hell.



    You've got great points, (I usually dont like crossover pairings either) but I don't think history is going to be enough for Dick's former relationships to carry any serious weight again. We're not talking Lois Lane here. We'll get teases, but I don't think the trigger will actually be pulled on either again.

    As long as Babs is starring or co-starring in her own book she's going to have writers who want to do their own things with her. Which means the relationship between Dick and Babs is always going to be going off course because their respective writers have their own stories and ideas to tell. We've had teases about them getting back together but it hasn't actually happened (for more than two minutes anyway) and won't ever get beyond that point, for logistics reasons if nothing else. We saw the kind of problems this can cause in the Superman-Wonder Woman relationship; they were part of the same editorial office, but their writers couldn't play with the dynamic for fear of stepping on the toes of the other book's plans. And we all know how bad DC is at communication.

    And as long as Dick is a part of the Bat office and that office is determined to downplay everything about Dick that didn't come from Gotham, a relationship with Kori isn't happening either. DC likes to pretend that Dick's time under the Titans office didn't happen, or at best that his involvement with the team went no deeper than Bruce's involvement with the League (a job, not a home). So Kori is out as a potential love interest too, simply because DC doesn't seem to want the reminder and dont want fans to remember how vital the NTT era was for Dick's character and development.

    Now, that's a problem with Karen too, and obviously this pairing I'm suggesting isnt going to happen under current management and is just for lol's. But Karen-Dick offers a few benefits Kori and Babs don't. For one, DC is strengthening the ties between the Bat and Super families. We see Bruce and Clark cameo in each other's books often, and among their "kids" we have a lot of connections too: Babs-Kara, Damian-Jon, Tim-Conner. Putting Dick and Karen together pairs each of the prime Bat kids (aside from Jason) to a Super. It's the World's Finest and DC seems perfectly happy to push that dynamic right now.

    Karen doesn't have a book these days and is unlikely to get one (unfortunately). The best she's likely to get is a spot in the JSA when they eventually return. And there's little room for character development in a team book, especially one with a roster as big as the JSA usually boasts. So pairing Karen with Dick, putting her in the Bat office as a part of Dick's supporting cast while loaning her out to the JSA, actually gives her a place where she can get some character development as well as extra panel time. And just because she's dating Dick doesn't mean her subplots have to revolve around their relationship. Additionally, Karen's (presumed) role with the JSA offers an easy explanation for why she doesn't just swoop in and do all the work for Dick. While he's fighting his villains, Karen's with her team fighting their's. Or on her own, or with Harley, or whatever. Point is, Karen's a busy woman and she doesn't have time to fix Dick's problems for him (as she shouldn't).

    Also, one of the biggest problems with Babs and Kori are the fans of the other woman. Each pairing has a pretty substantial fanbase and neither will really be thrilled to see the other side "win." By using Karen, no one gets what they think they want but everyone might be able to agree on the new pairing. And Karen and Dick bring new narrative options to each other. Through Dick you can involve Karen in mystery and spy stories and other street level narratives where the problem can't simply be solved with super strength. Through Karen, Dick gains easy access to sci-fi and science fantasy narratives. DC seems perfectly willing to let Bats do high concept adventures, as long as they're with a Super.

    And Karen would benefit from the higher profile. She's not nearly as big an IP as Nightwing is, so the tie to him will only help increase her visibility (granted she should be getting more time with Clark too). And as long as she's written properly and not as a 1950's damsel in distress, being a supporting cast member and love interest isn't going to "reduce" her as a character. Plus we'll likely have her punching things in JSA, so between the two titles we could have a fairly well rounded and developed Power Girl; possibly more than we would if she were only in one title.

    Plus I just think they'd have a great dynamic. And really, who else is a viable love interest for Karen friggin Star? That woman is a force of nature and would just decimate most men.
    I could see Karen uniting the two factions under the banner of "sink this ship," though. Shawn didn't really do well (granted she was Seely's oc and only he cared to write them) for this reason more than most.

    You do bring up some compelling points, but ultimately I think it just props Karen up on a Batcrutch that will inevitably be kicked out from under her because nostalgia and outside media influences.

    I do like the idea of her showing up more in another book, but again I just don't see it lasting. Being supporting cast doesn't ruin her, Black Canary has been great headlining BoP or as a recurring cast member of Green Arrow's book so there is precedent.

    I just see it going poorly due to the naval battle that is Nightwing shipping and the general course of the genre... Then there's Didio.

    In a vacuum, I agree, they would be a very fun couple and their personalities would challenge each other in interesting manners, but again I don't see it happening for a long time, maybe ever if the next regime loves the NTT/ TT cartoon. Barbara's not been the character he had chemistry with since Flashpoint and they've downplayed NTT so much that I don't see Starfire as viable either, so I see where you're coming from.

    I'd be all for it if it lead to a new World's Finest volume that was their team-up.

  12. #27
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    You're not thinking wide enough…

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    Never got that vibe from PG, to be honest. Feels born of a juvenile fanboy wet dream rather than making sense for her.

  13. #28
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I could see Karen uniting the two factions under the banner of "sink this ship," though. Shawn didn't really do well (granted she was Seely's oc and only he cared to write them) for this reason more than most.
    Maybe. I dont think Shawn, or any of the other love interests writers have created specifically for the role, are a fair comparison though. Karen's a well established character with her own fanbase and history and story. She stands on her own, not as just an attache of Dick's mythos. Maybe Nightwing fans would reject her because she's not Babs or Kori, or maybe they'd grudgingly roll with it because at least its not the "other woman" stealing Dick back. A indifferent third party, as it were, who was established and has a purpose beyond a relationship with Dick.

    Really though, even if fans didn't accept it at first.....that's not necessarily a problem. Fans reject anything new until it's proven to them (consider Grayson; tons of backlash at first but now fans are largely cool with the idea). If they still rally against it after a time that would be a different story, but I'm willing to bet a lot of readers would accept it. Its not like Babs or Kori really have a shot after all. What those shippers want won't happen and I suspect that Karen might be accepted as a viable (if not preferable) alternative. No way to know until it's done, either way. And who knows? Maybe some of Karen's fans who aren't already reading Nightwing would come along to help balance any loss from Babs/Kori fans leaving in a huff? I struggle to imagine any Wingnuts dropping the book over a love interest. Not in any real numbers anyway. But again, who knows until its done?

    I just see it going poorly due to the naval battle that is Nightwing shipping and the general course of the genre... Then there's Didio.
    Yeah, then there's Didio. He really does seem to be why Nightwing fans can't have nice things.

    In a vacuum, I agree, they would be a very fun couple and their personalities would challenge each other in interesting manners, but again I don't see it happening for a long time, maybe ever if the next regime loves the NTT/ TT cartoon. Barbara's not been the character he had chemistry with since Flashpoint and they've downplayed NTT so much that I don't see Starfire as viable either, so I see where you're coming from.
    Oh it'll never happen. Not unless I somehow stumble into an editor's position lol But its a fun idea and I think it could work if DC actually tried and put a little effort into showing how it could work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Never got that vibe from PG, to be honest. Feels born of a juvenile fanboy wet dream rather than making sense for her.
    Well, Diana has been known to make a person question themselves. But I agree; that isn't Karen. I assume that's someone changing the dialogue and not something that was actually published right? I can't imagine DC letting that slide outside of Harley's book.
    Last edited by Ascended; 01-08-2019 at 03:22 PM.
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  14. #29
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    (Shipping Nightwing and Power Girl)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Really though, even if fans didn't accept it at first.....that's not necessarily a problem. Fans reject anything new until it's proven to them (consider Grayson; tons of backlash at first but now fans are largely cool with the idea). If they still rally against it after a time that would be a different story, but I'm willing to bet a lot of readers would accept it.
    I pretty much agree with this. While I myself am rather indifferent to the idea, I don't see any reason for why it inherently would cause big troubles for the characterisation of either character. It would mainly come down to story quality and execution. Unlike say an attempt to ship Batman and Wonder Woman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, Diana has been known to make a person question themselves. But I agree; that isn't Karen. I assume that's someone changing the dialogue and not something that was actually published right? I can't imagine DC letting that slide outside of Harley's book.
    Yep, it's a fan edit of the opening to "Scalpels and Chainsaws" in Brave and the Bold vol 3 #7. In the original, the last speech bubble from Power Girl says "To murder Superman in his fortress", and it causes a combination of fight and teamup between Power Girl and Wonder Woman. IMO it's not as good as Simone's rather similar take on the two in Wonder Woman vol 3 #40–41, but it still has its moments. Most Power Girl and Wonder Woman teamup stories tend to be rather fun, perhaps because the writers allow themselves to give Wonder Woman a bit more levity than she is usually granted.

  15. #30
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Maybe. I dont think Shawn, or any of the other love interests writers have created specifically for the role, are a fair comparison though. Karen's a well established character with her own fanbase and history and story. She stands on her own, not as just an attache of Dick's mythos. Maybe Nightwing fans would reject her because she's not Babs or Kori, or maybe they'd grudgingly roll with it because at least its not the "other woman" stealing Dick back. A indifferent third party, as it were, who was established and has a purpose beyond a relationship with Dick.

    Really though, even if fans didn't accept it at first.....that's not necessarily a problem. Fans reject anything new until it's proven to them (consider Grayson; tons of backlash at first but now fans are largely cool with the idea). If they still rally against it after a time that would be a different story, but I'm willing to bet a lot of readers would accept it. Its not like Babs or Kori really have a shot after all. What those shippers want won't happen and I suspect that Karen might be accepted as a viable (if not preferable) alternative. No way to know until it's done, either way. And who knows? Maybe some of Karen's fans who aren't already reading Nightwing would come along to help balance any loss from Babs/Kori fans leaving in a huff? I struggle to imagine any Wingnuts dropping the book over a love interest. Not in any real numbers anyway. But again, who knows until its done?



    Yeah, then there's Didio. He really does seem to be why Nightwing fans can't have nice things.



    Oh it'll never happen. Not unless I somehow stumble into an editor's position lol But its a fun idea and I think it could work if DC actually tried and put a little effort into showing how it could work.



    Well, Diana has been known to make a person question themselves. But I agree; that isn't Karen. I assume that's someone changing the dialogue and not something that was actually published right? I can't imagine DC letting that slide outside of Harley's book.
    It's from Waid's Brave and the Bold run. She states she's going to go kill Superman.

    And that's true she has that established fanbase, and it may work, but I've given up with Wingnuts with respect to that particular battle, and I'd hate to see PG dragged into it. Hard enough getting Nightwing stories told that aren't about his love life or Damien. But I digress, we're here to discuss Power Girl. I imagine she'd bring some more levity to Wayne Manor on big get-togethers when it's usually just Dick (when he himself is not brooding).

    It would be really quite fun to see her take Atlee under her wing in a team up book again, or as Terra's sponsor of sorts for the JSA. I always enjoyed their interactions.
    Last edited by Robanker; 01-08-2019 at 04:38 PM.

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