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  1. #1891
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    This story in DC Comics Presents: Green Lantern from 2004, written by Martin Pasko, portrays Martin as downright abusive.



    Personally, I thought Hal looking up to his dad was only done well in New Frontier and that was particularly because of the story being set in the 50s/60s. But I don't much care for abusive alcoholic Martin either. Perhaps a balance between role model Martin and Martin as we saw him in Hal's recollection of him in ET would be best. I don't necessarily think they have to be two separate characters either. Maybe the trauma of witnessing the plane crash made Hal block out the less heroic aspects of Martin and idealize him to a certain extent.
    Reminds me too much of Guy's dad.

  2. #1892
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    Jim Jordan's girlfriend convincing herself Jim was actually Green Lantern was one of my favorite aspects of Silver Age GL.

  3. #1893
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    I like this and think I prefer this too. Heroes having their entire identity based around their parents has become such a cliche at this point.
    It makes sense for some heroes. It makes no sense for Hal. He is supposed to be one of a kind. It should not matter what type of parents he had. Hal was gonna turn out the way he did regardless. Every decision would have been his choice, and not influenced by others (unless he's saving lives). If you are worthy of a power ring, you gotta be unique, besides fearless & honest.

  4. #1894
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think it's a stretch to say Hal's dad defined his entire character. It was one defining moment, but not the sum total of it.

  5. #1895
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's a stretch to say Hal's dad defined his entire character. It was one defining moment, but not the sum total of it.
    Which is just one of the reasons I didn't like the original proposal for "Emerald Twilight" wherein the Guardians orchestrated Martin's death so that Hal could become such a great GL. As though that one event made him who he is.

  6. #1896
    Astonishing Member liwanag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    This story in DC Comics Presents: Green Lantern from 2004, written by Martin Pasko, portrays Martin as downright abusive.



    Personally, I thought Hal looking up to his dad was only done well in New Frontier and that was particularly because of the story being set in the 50s/60s. But I don't much care for abusive alcoholic Martin either. Perhaps a balance between role model Martin and Martin as we saw him in Hal's recollection of him in ET would be best. I don't necessarily think they have to be two separate characters either. Maybe the trauma of witnessing the plane crash made Hal block out the less heroic aspects of Martin and idealize him to a certain extent.
    i haven't seen this before. i'd rather have martin be a good husband and father than this.

  7. #1897
    Astonishing Member liwanag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Which is just one of the reasons I didn't like the original proposal for "Emerald Twilight" wherein the Guardians orchestrated Martin's death so that Hal could become such a great GL. As though that one event made him who he is.
    man, the guardians would be straight up villains if that ever happened.

  8. #1898
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Which is just one of the reasons I didn't like the original proposal for "Emerald Twilight" wherein the Guardians orchestrated Martin's death so that Hal could become such a great GL. As though that one event made him who he is.
    Jeez, and people thought Johns' Guardians were too much .

  9. #1899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    Jim Jordan's girlfriend convincing herself Jim was actually Green Lantern was one of my favorite aspects of Silver Age GL.
    Lol. I think I remember reading a story about that. Those were the times.

  10. #1900
    Astonishing Member liwanag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    i haven't seen this before. i'd rather have martin be a good husband and father than this.


    yeah, i think this works better.

  11. #1901
    Spectacular Member MaxStirner_91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    It makes sense for some heroes. It makes no sense for Hal. He is supposed to be one of a kind. It should not matter what type of parents he had. Hal was gonna turn out the way he did regardless. Every decision would have been his choice, and not influenced by others (unless he's saving lives). If you are worthy of a power ring, you gotta be unique, besides fearless & honest.
    Absolutely. I see willpower and agency as being very fundamental parts of Hal's character. You're absolutely right that he has to be very unique and I don't think he needs Martin (as either a good or bad influence) to be that.
    Last edited by MaxStirner_91; 06-20-2019 at 12:23 AM.

  12. #1902
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Sounds like the classic nature vs nurture debate. I think the general consensus is that it's a combination of both.

    Hal is a very willfull guy by nature and would have done great things but his father had a huge impact on him as well and changed things.
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake.

    Currently Reading: Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner era), Justice League of America (Silver age era), Huntress ('89 series)

  13. #1903
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I certainly prefer that Hal and his dad had a good relationship. If anything, it's become an interesting counterpoint to Guy's relationship with his dad. I'm okay with Hal's dad's death having had a big impact on him, but nothing like Batman's parents' death in terms of defining him. If anything, the tension with his mom that came from him wanting to follow in his dad's footsteps doesn't get played up enough, because that's something he chose to do (at the cost of his personal relationships, which is certainly a theme in his life) rather than something that just happened to him.

  14. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's a stretch to say Hal's dad defined his entire character. It was one defining moment, but not the sum total of it.
    During the Geof run, Hal said after watching his dad die, he had no reason to fear anything. The core trait of Hal is being able to overcome fear. For me, it works best for Hal as an innate trait, not born from some outside influence. Then, the various images posted here where it seemed Hal's world revolved around his dad. If Hal is struggling, here comes a ring construct of dad to encourage him.

    I think Hal was born able to overcome fear. If Martin Jordan was an accountant, and lived a long life, would Hal still be able to overcome fear?


  15. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    Absolutely. I see willpower and agency as being very fundamental parts of Hal's character. You're absolutely right that he has to be very unique and I don't think he needs Martin (as either a good or bad influence) to be that.
    I think this is what makes Hal & Barry so great. I don't see the need to add any emotional stimuli to their backstories.

    They were basically decent, heroic men from the start. Sure, they had their quirks, but nothing linked to tragedy. When they got powers, they decided to use them for good. Simple.

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