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  1. #1906
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    During the Geof run, Hal said after watching his dad die, he had no reason to fear anything. The core trait of Hal is being able to overcome fear. For me, it works best for Hal as an innate trait, not born from some outside influence. Then, the various images posted here where it seemed Hal's world revolved around his dad. If Hal is struggling, here comes a ring construct of dad to encourage him.

    I think Hal was born able to overcome fear. If Martin Jordan was an accountant, and lived a long life, would Hal still be able to overcome fear?

    I mean, I think people were just posting stuff to honor Hal's dad and get into the Father's Day spirit rather then trying to say that Hal's life revolves around his dad.

  2. #1907
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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  3. #1908
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    This story in DC Comics Presents: Green Lantern from 2004, written by Martin Pasko, portrays Martin as downright abusive.



    Personally, I thought Hal looking up to his dad was only done well in New Frontier and that was particularly because of the story being set in the 50s/60s. But I don't much care for abusive alcoholic Martin either. Perhaps a balance between role model Martin and Martin as we saw him in Hal's recollection of him in ET would be best. I don't necessarily think they have to be two separate characters either. Maybe the trauma of witnessing the plane crash made Hal block out the less heroic aspects of Martin and idealize him to a certain extent.
    Oh wow I totally forgot about that issue and it was so sad because that comic was a celebration to Julius Schwartz and it was so dark for a Green Lantern story, but that was the era for GL
    Last edited by cyclops1983; 06-20-2019 at 12:17 PM.

  4. #1909
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    During the Geof run, Hal said after watching his dad die, he had no reason to fear anything. The core trait of Hal is being able to overcome fear. For me, it works best for Hal as an innate trait, not born from some outside influence. Then, the various images posted here where it seemed Hal's world revolved around his dad. If Hal is struggling, here comes a ring construct of dad to encourage him.

    I think Hal was born able to overcome fear. If Martin Jordan was an accountant, and lived a long life, would Hal still be able to overcome fear?

    A life defining moment born out of tragedy.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  5. #1910
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    Glad that Vendetti wrote an awesome story using Martin Jordan. Maybe we will get the chance to read about his mom.

    And definitely his brothers.

  6. #1911
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    The annual in July is a Jordan family reunion! I'm really excited for that.

  7. #1912
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vartox View Post
    I might be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure we didn't know his parents' names until Emerald Dawn, which also introduced his dad dying in a crash?

    It was interesting, in the silver age we got Hal's brothers, a few other random uncles/relatives, and in the early 80s we got Air Wave but we never heard about his parents. I guess the implication that they were never at the family reunions is that they were probably dead?
    This is how I remember it too. I don't remember anything about Martin pre-Emerald Dawn.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    It's interesting, in the time between ET and Rebirth, Martin Jordan wasn't really portrayed as being a role model for Hal; quite the opposite, in fact. I think it was really New Frontier that made Martin such a significant part of Hal's backstory (and portrayed him as someone Hal looked up to).
    Martin's main purpose was an explanation as to why Hal even had a job with Carl Ferris. Despite all his dangerous stunts and questionable attendance records... Carl owed it to the memory of his old air force buddy. If anything Emerald Dawn hammered in that Hal was living under his old man's shadow... not that he was trying to live up to a role model... and certainly not motivated by his death in any way.



    Martin's main purpose was an explanation as to why Hal even had a job with Carl Ferris. Despite all his dangerous stunts and questionable attendance records... Carl owed it to the memory of his old air force buddy. If anything Emerald Dawn hammered in that Hal was living under his old man's shadow... not that he was trying to live up to a role model... and certainly not motivated by his death in any way.


    Quote Originally Posted by liwanag View Post
    i've always wondered about air wave. wasn't he in suicide squad? i'm guessing it was retconed that air wave and hal were related?
    Wasn't Air Wave considered Earth-2? he's usually associated with lately with the JSA... therefore his status as Hal's Cousin had to be a retcon... not sure when it happened though.

  8. #1913
    Fantastic Member Mutatis_Mutandis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Martin's main purpose was an explanation as to why Hal even had a job with Carl Ferris. Despite all his dangerous stunts and questionable attendance records... Carl owed it to the memory of his old air force buddy. If anything Emerald Dawn hammered in that Hal was living under his old man's shadow... not that he was trying to live up to a role model... and certainly not motivated by his death in any way.
    In ED, sure. But Johns' Martin was definitely portrayed as Hal's childhood hero.

  9. #1914
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    In ED, sure. But Johns' Martin was definitely portrayed as Hal's childhood hero.
    True. But that was my point. It took forty-six years worth of stories before Martin became any kind of motivation for Hal. Regardless of How popular and praised Johns' run is... I still can't help but consider that a blatant retcon. Hal had gone for decades without a dead dad motivator... even after ED established he DID have a dead dad.... it didn't mean much to the heroic aspect of Green Lantern.

  10. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    In ED, sure. But Johns' Martin was definitely portrayed as Hal's childhood hero.
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    True. But that was my point. It took forty-six years worth of stories before Martin became any kind of motivation for Hal. Regardless of How popular and praised Johns' run is... I still can't help but consider that a blatant retcon. Hal had gone for decades without a dead dad motivator... even after ED established he DID have a dead dad.... it didn't mean much to the heroic aspect of Green Lantern.
    You two have broke it down far better than me. I just don't feel like this was a necessary retcon.

  11. #1916
    Fantastic Member Mutatis_Mutandis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    You two have broke it down far better than me. I just don't feel like this was a necessary retcon.
    Yeah, I agree.

  12. #1917
    Spectacular Member Margaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    True. But that was my point. It took forty-six years worth of stories before Martin became any kind of motivation for Hal. Regardless of How popular and praised Johns' run is... I still can't help but consider that a blatant retcon. Hal had gone for decades without a dead dad motivator... even after ED established he DID have a dead dad.... it didn't mean much to the heroic aspect of Green Lantern.
    I think it is a rather unnecessary retcon. I don't believe anyone cared that much about Martin until Geoff Johns made him a big deal in Hal's life. Having dead dad being the motivation is a tale as old as time, and nearly all heroes have some sort of dead parent figure being the catalyst for their heroism. I've always considered one of Hal's most definitive character traits is that he's someone who is just born a hero, not made into one. Nowadays people just love making heroes into these troubled souls burdened by ghosts of the past, which is cool, but I think it's refreshing to have someone like Hal who has such an innate, unwavering faith in himself.
    Last edited by Margaret; 06-21-2019 at 10:02 AM.

  13. #1918
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    In ED, sure. But Johns' Martin was definitely portrayed as Hal's childhood hero.
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    True. But that was my point. It took forty-six years worth of stories before Martin became any kind of motivation for Hal. Regardless of How popular and praised Johns' run is... I still can't help but consider that a blatant retcon. Hal had gone for decades without a dead dad motivator... even after ED established he DID have a dead dad.... it didn't mean much to the heroic aspect of Green Lantern.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    You two have broke it down far better than me. I just don't feel like this was a necessary retcon.
    I liked it because I felt it added more to Hal then it took away but wasn't the sole defining thing that made Hal Hal.

    Especially compared to how much the "dead mom" retcon has defined Barry the past few years.

  14. #1919
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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  15. #1920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margaret View Post
    I think it is a rather unnecessary retcon. I don't believe anyone cared that much about Martin until Geoff Johns made him a big deal in Hal's life. Having dead dad being the motivation is a tale as old as time, and nearly all heroes have some sort of dead parent figure being the catalyst for their heroism. I've always considered one of Hal's most definitive character traits is that he's someone who is just born a hero, not made into one. Nowadays people just love making heroes into these troubled souls burdened by ghosts of the past, which is cool, but I think it's refreshing to have someone like Hal who has such an innate, unwavering faith in himself.

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