Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Frontier]

I haven't read Johns' run since it was new, so I don't remember the details, but I specifically remember complaining about it at the time. For most of the series, Flash was a light, fun, upbeat series, and Johns took it in a much darker direction.

I'm not sure about "darker." Definitely there was some heavy and sometimes violent stuff, but Wally always came out ahead of it (even in the end with Zoom) and never gave up, so it didn't feel darker to me.

And there were still moments of levity. Like with Morllo and Chyre .

[WallyWestFlash]

I thought Johns started REALLY strong. Wonderland and Blood will Run were exceptional.

I just remember wondering "Who is this new Johns guy? Hope he does well. " It was decent actually from what I remember.

Especially since right before that it seems the series was in flux after Waid left and the Dark Flash story line. Which was great

Blood will run I read a bit more recently and it was just ok. Although the Flash cult and Cicada were cool concepts. And I really liked the scar on Wally's chest and that he would tranform through it. Too bad it didn't last long.

Agreed. And I'm always interested in whether or not people like the big shift in the book after #200.

Did not like it. The series really seemed directionless after the big finale of blitz. Which I didn't really care for itself . Very dark.

I haven't read Johns' run since it was new, so I don't remember the details, but I specifically remember complaining about it at the time. For most of the series, Flash was a light, fun, upbeat series, and Johns took it in a much darker direction.

Totally agree. The series never shied away from drama before that but there was always a light tone. Mainly from Wally's fun personality and atitude. Johns got rid of most of that. So I think it was both the stories themselves got darker and Wally got way more serious that made the series lose its unique fun charm.

[Frontier]

Totally agree. The series never shied away from drama before that but there was always a light tone. Mainly from Wally's fun personality and atitude. Johns got rid of most of that. So I think it was both the stories themselves got darker and Wally got way more serious that made the series lose its unique fun charm.

He came off more mature to me then serious, but that's just me.

[Jekyll]

Johns run was pretty solid and enjoyable. I think in volume three there is a great team up with Wally and Hawkman that is very entertaining.

[godisawesome]

The way I remember/see it... the stuff leading up to Blitz showed Johns was very capable of handling Wally and his world in a very good andnconventional way. Blitz itself was a masterpiece in most ways. Post-Blitz was still very readable... but maybe proves the pattern that was already starting to establish itself that Johns tends to remix characters towards a status quo he himself prefers with often similar tropes and cliches to his other remixes, which leads to a status quo *he* can write very well... but is extremely difficult/almost impossible for someone else to follow up on in a good way, because he’s often broken a bunch of the framework that journeyman writers would depend on to use while they find their feet.

I remember Ignition and Rogue War being pretty... but more because of Johns’s skill at “cinematic” writing and his ability to extract momentum from his own stories than because they were great Wally West tales, if that makes sense. This is when he started solidifying the old Rogues as being great villains and anti-heroes with their own quirks and standards, but it’s also when he was telling Wally and Linda stories that were much closer to be overwrought melodrama than previously, because Geoff Johns is going to squeeze every last ounce out of angst he can out of a tragedy.

Of course he seemed to wrap it up well enough right before Infinite Crisis that it wasn’t totally derailing to have Bart take over... but that project fell apart, and I think the IP left in Johns’s wake may have tripped up even Waid just because it was making Wally into a different character than he’d had before.

I mean, I think the only thing really gained from restoring the secret identity was the initial drama of Ignition and the follow up with Linda blaming Flash for her kids’ deaths; Wally had operated successfully for so long without a secret ID that it didn’t really ebefnit him to lose what was kind of a defining feature of the Waid run - his rightful confidence and celebrity status. In hindsight, doing the secret identity thing comes off as a smaller scale version of Barry’s mom being killed: a move to make a hero more conventional that doesn’t exactly help differentiate them, and unless specifically and well exploited for story reasons, is actually more of a liability than an asset.

[Frontier]

I remember Ignition and Rogue War being pretty... but more because of Johns’s skill at “cinematic” writing and his ability to extract momentum from his own stories than because they were great Wally West tales, if that makes sense. This is when he started solidifying the old Rogues as being great villains and anti-heroes with their own quirks and standards, but it’s also when he was telling Wally and Linda stories that were much closer to be overwrought melodrama than previously, because Geoff Johns is going to squeeze every last ounce out of angst he can out of a tragedy.

Maybe it's because I'm too used to the CW shows but the Wally/Linda angst felt more lowkey then overwrought to me. I mean, it was soap operatic but to the standard extent of Superhero comics in my opinion.

"Rogues War" was basically a Rogues story. Wally was caught in the middle and his main investment came when Zoom got involved.

I mean, I think the only thing really gained from restoring the secret identity was the initial drama of Ignition and the follow up with Linda blaming Flash for her kids’ deaths; Wally had operated successfully for so long without a secret ID that it didn’t really ebefnit him to lose what was kind of a defining feature of the Waid run - his rightful confidence and celebrity status. In hindsight, doing the secret identity thing comes off as a smaller scale version of Barry’s mom being killed: a move to make a hero more conventional that doesn’t exactly help differentiate them, and unless specifically and well exploited for story reasons, is actually more of a liability than an asset.

I liked how Wally bounced off his supporting cast with a secret identity.

To be honest, when you see what happened to him, I can't blame Wally for not wanting people to know he's The Flash anymore.

[WallyWestFlash]

He came off more mature to me then serious, but that's just me.

The more serious Johns made Wally the less fun he became and lost a big draw of Wally's character. Not to say Wally can't have serious moments but one of his biggest personality traits is his humor and not taking himself seriously.

Look at him in JL or YJ. There are serious characters that it works for . Wally isent one of them.

That's what made Messer Loebs and Waids run so much fun and what it lost when Johns took over.

[WallyWestFlash]

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[Frontier]

The more serious Johns made Wally the less fun he became and lost a big draw of Wally's character. Not to say Wally can't have serious moments but one of his biggest personality traits is his humor and not taking himself seriously.

I think he still had that in him, especially when he was trying to move on from what Zoom did.

Look at him in JL or YJ. There are serious characters that it works for . Wally isent one of them.

Yeah, but those Wally's had immaturity issues. I figure if he ever became Flash on YJ he wouldn't be acting like he did when he was Kid Flash.

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If only...

[Jekyll]

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As they sang in Les Miserable, “Bring him hoooommmeee.......”

[WallyWestFlash]

I think he still had that in him, especially when he was trying to move on from what Zoom did.

Yeah, but those Wally's had immaturity issues. I figure if he ever became Flash on YJ he wouldn't be acting like he did when he was Kid Flash.

True. Even though that is one of my favorite times of Wally, the rookie, I hear that he did feel like the very early Wally and could get more mature later . But still I think Wally should always retain that fun aspect. Even with a touch of immaturity. It's part of his character and charm.

Johns went to the other extreme of getting rid of pretty much all of it.

That's why I felt that he was Barry lite back then. Because Wally was always fun and humorous and Barry was the more serious one. When Johns made Wally too serious I felt he was turning him too much into Barry i.e. moving away from Wallys defining characteristics that made him Wally.

[Frontier]

True. Even though that is one of my favorite times of Wally, the rookie, I hear that he did feel like the very early Wally and could get more mature later . But still I think Wally should always retain that fun aspect. Even with a touch of immaturity. It's part of his character and charm.

Johns went to the other extreme of getting rid of pretty much all of it.

I don't think he did entirely, if only because I remember there being some moments of levity with Wally in that run, usually around Linda. He was still snarky.

That's why I felt that he was Barry lite back then. Because Wally was always fun and humorous and Barry was the more serious one. When Johns made Wally too serious I felt he was turning him too much into Barry i.e. moving away from Wallys defining characteristics that made him Wally.

I never got that, at least because he felt distinctive from how Johns wrote Barry, but that may be because of my retroactive Flash reading (I jumped from the last, pre-Flashpoint, volume to Waid, then to Johns, then back to Waid).

[WallyWestFlash]

I don't think he did entirely, if only because I remember there being some moments of levity with Wally in that run, usually around Linda. He was still snarky.

I never got that, at least because he felt distinctive from how Johns wrote Barry, but that may be because of my retroactive Flash reading (I jumped from the last, pre-Flashpoint, volume to Waid, then to Johns, then back to Waid).

The way Johns wrote current Barry is not very memorable for me honestly.

I first started reading Wally during the Waid ea but shortly after went back and read Barry' s Silver age run.

Barry was written like most Silver age heroes then, with maybe a bit more blandness actually. Not that he was a bad character but just not much to him.

Now compare that to Messner Loebs and Waids Wally where he has a TON of personality. Now bringing in Johns Wally into the mix he seems a lot closer to Silver age Barry then to Messner Loeb and Waids Wally.

Just a lot more serious and straight up guy rather than Wally's regular fun, charming personality.

Also on a side note the tone of the stories themselves got a lot more dark and serious which drew down the fun factor even more for me.

But I'm going to go back and re read Johns Wally era starting with that paper back I just ordered. Maybe it will be different this time.

[Bruce Wayne]

Of course he seemed to wrap it up well enough right before Infinite Crisis that it wasn’t totally derailing to have Bart take over... but that project fell apart, and I think the IP left in Johns’s wake may have tripped up even Waid just because it was making Wally into a different character than he’d had before.

That's because Bart taking over was a last minute thing. Infinite Crisis was meant to bring back Barry Allen. Except people at DC got cold feet and they went with Bart instead. Bart then getting screwed in his own book was entirely because of certain higher ups at DC who still wanted to bring back Barry Allen and pretty much sabotaged Bart and Wally for another go at bringing back Barry. You can say the current morass the Flash comic book franchise is in is because of these decisions and the intransigence of certain people over Barry Allen that continues to have negative repercussions on the Flash.

[Dred]

Didio has outright said that Bart's run was never intended to last.