Page 108 of 239 FirstFirst ... 85898104105106107108109110111112118158208 ... LastLast
Results 1,606 to 1,620 of 3576
  1. #1606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Yeah, King likening Wally's situation to him coming back from the "war" is very, very fucking weird to me.
    I don't hate the idea of this and it's true that Wally never truly adjusted to living in the new 52 universe. I can see his math but he ended up going WAY too extreme with that presence and sent Wally WAY too far over the edge.

    I guess the only thing to do at this point is wait for the final issue and see if King puts his money where his mouth is in terms of finding a convincing way to have Wally come back from this. Seems like a pretty tall order.

  2. #1607
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,221

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess that explains why seemingly every character he writes have to have some kind of traumatic element or have it foisted upon their character when he writes them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Yeah, King likening Wally's situation to him coming back from the "war" is very, very fucking weird to me.
    Exactly. As I said in the page before, King himself has admitted he has a lot of issues and he also says himself , as he did in the above posted interview, that he writes that into his characters.

    I wish he would take care of his own issues and stop using these decades old, beloved heroes, who are so much bigger than one man's agenda, to work out his issues and stop ruining them for so many people that enjoy them and are important to them.

    Very selfish.
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake

  3. #1608
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Yeah, King likening Wally's situation to him coming back from the "war" is very, very fucking weird to me.
    I've said this else where but there actually is a good story in there. Dealing with coming back, trying to find his place, and then ultimately his family. The pull King had to get Heroes in Crisis cleared could easily have gone to that story instead.

  4. #1609
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,102

    Default

    Interesting interview. Tom King always comes across like a total mentsch in every interview I've heard, seen or read with him and I do truly think he has the best of intentions. And, of course, I've personally loved almost everything he has written aside for HiC.

    It's funny, his own issues have been present in all of his work in the past but I don't think he has written the same story over and over again as Batman, Omega Men, Mister Miracle, the Vision and the Sherriff of Babylon are actually fairly distinct from one another and often deal with things that go beyond PTSD, depression or trauma. HiC seems to me to be the comic in which he would really bring that personal stuff front and centre in a way that even, oddly enough, Sheriff of Babylon didn't. This was, unsurprisingly, a massively strange and misguided move. Doing that in a self-contained run or creator-owned work makes sense because it can just be its own thing (even Batman, my second least favourite of his comics, gets away with him doing such a different take on Batman because the character is pretty much indestructible in the sense that you can do whatever the hell you want with him and he will still come out at the end of it as recognizably Batman) but on a book that is supposed to be tied into the greater DCU and that would have repercussions to the rest of the line (in theory)... it's just such a weird choice.

    And then, of course, there's the fact that Didio could not have given him worse characters to use for this story. It doesn't work with Harley, it doesn't work with Booster and it sure as hell doesn't work with Wally - a character who is pretty much the poster boy for superheroes who do what they do simply because they love doing it. I like his Batman because Batman is a character that suits this sort of "breaking down to see how he works" and he made it work for Scott Free by basically keeping the character recognizably himself while still being able to hone in on an aspect of his past that is extremely dark. Wally doesn't really have that darkness aside for the manufactured trauma of bringing him back while remembering a family that no longer exists. He also has been a character that until the whole mess around bringing back "Barry Allen" (sorry but still #notmybarry) was constantly moving forward so breaking him down is the precise opposite of the character's arc that began way back in 1986. Giving him kids and making this full-time superhero have to deal with "mundane" issues of supporting and raising children? Makes perfect sense for the evolution of the character. Breaking him down with a cheap and manufactured trauma? Seriously. Who the bloody hell thought thsi was a good idea?!

    Unlike some of you, I'm absolutely going to check out whatever King does next but the entirety of HiC seems to have just been a horrible mistake right from the off.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  5. #1610
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    That entire paragraph is just filled with weirdness, though. No one told Wally not to worry about his family when he realized they existed -- the only person who knows is Barry at this point (Iris' memories are still a blur). The entire concept of this was that people were trying to help Wally and Wally destroyed it all, cascading into him killing a bunch of people, then doing a bunch of intentional crimes to cover it up. If he's putting himself in Wally, what is he getting there? He made Wally suicidal, he made Wally "accidentally" responsible for the deaths of innocents, he had Wally frame innocent people for horrendous crimes so he could go free, he had Wally destroy the sanctity of all these peoples' lives because of his own insecurities, he turned Wally into a walking bomb that was one bad day away from mass killing, he took any good thing Wally embodied and said that that was all garbage and false and none of that mattered -- these aren't just the typical consequences of losing control for a moment or making a mistake. If this is Tom King putting himself on the page then someone really, really needs to talk to him about this.

    My guess is, if King is putting himself into Wally, Wally is not going to get a happy ending because that's probably not what King wants for himself if all of this is birthed out of how he views himself. There's a lot of self hatred in Wally's dialogue that never existed before.

    Maybe it's all a giant ruse, none of it's true, and we get to walk back on this **** show. But then I don't get why King has said the things he has said in this interview.

  6. #1611
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dornwolf View Post
    I've said this else where but there actually is a good story in there. Dealing with coming back, trying to find his place, and then ultimately his family. The pull King had to get Heroes in Crisis cleared could easily have gone to that story instead.
    There definitely is potential in that. Hell, I thought that that's what they should have done with Barry when he first returned in the much-missed pre-Flashpoint universe. King might even have been an interesting choice had they gone in that direction, with a bit of editorial guidance to ensure that he keeps the more positive and hopeful aspects of Wally alive in the process.

    Sadly, however similar Heroes in Crisis may look like that on paper, in reality its much too hopeless, depressing and dark to fit a character like Wally so, in order to make him fit into the story, the character had to be made almost unrecognizable. With this sort of basis what chance did HiC ever have of not being an abject failure?
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  7. #1612
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,017

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dornwolf View Post
    I've said this else where but there actually is a good story in there. Dealing with coming back, trying to find his place, and then ultimately his family. The pull King had to get Heroes in Crisis cleared could easily have gone to that story instead.
    I think the concept was an interesting approach but the murder mystery and character derailing aspects of HiC have completely killed it in my opinion.

  8. #1613
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,102

    Default

    By the way, one thing I'm hoping that the HiC debacle and the recent curtailing of his Batman run means is that both King and DC will end up preferring to have him stick to those absolutely brilliant maxiseries that he has won so much acclaim for. It's a much better fit for him and the format actually tends to create far more classic and timeless comics.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  9. #1614
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,017

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    By the way, one thing I'm hoping that the HiC debacle and the recent curtailing of his Batman run means is that both King and DC will end up preferring to have him stick to those absolutely brilliant maxiseries that he has won so much acclaim for. It's a much better fit for him and the format actually tends to create far more classic and timeless comics.
    Agreed.

    Whether you enjoy the work or not, I think the less mainstream book King is on, the better.

  10. #1615
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    9,417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the concept was an interesting approach but the murder mystery and character derailing aspects of HiC have completely killed it in my opinion.
    This is why I really hate a lot of modern DC stories. There are honest to god great stories in these books, they are just buried under so much unnecessary additions/baggage. You could have Superman and Wally talking about surviving Flashpoint and how that affects them. Diving into how characters are feeling about super-heroics would be a great way to reflect on the past decade or so for these characters as Doomsday Clock approaches. (which will probably shake everything up)

    Throwing in a murder mystery while barely giving enough pages to characters that are getting the most effected by this book is pretty bad.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  11. #1616
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,017

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    This is why I really hate a lot of modern DC stories. There are honest to god great stories in these books, they are just buried under so much unnecessary additions/baggage. You could have Superman and Wally talking about surviving Flashpoint and how that affects them. Diving into how characters are feeling about super-heroics would be a great way to reflect on the past decade or so for these characters as Doomsday Clock approaches. (which will probably shake everything up)

    Throwing in a murder mystery while barely giving enough pages to characters that are getting the most effected by this book is pretty bad.
    I just think it's kind of bad that a story about something as serious and important as mental health in Superhero comics has just approached it in a...I don't know if tone-death is the right phrase, but in a rather haphazard and egregious manner.

    That Young Justice episode with Black Canary interviewing the Team did a better job of depicting what Heroes in Crisis set out to do and it didn't even need to kill anyone.

  12. #1617
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    9,417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I just think it's kind of bad that a story about something as serious and important as mental health in Superhero comics has just approached it in a...I don't know if tone-death is the right phrase, but in a rather haphazard and egregious manner.

    That Young Justice episode with Black Canary interviewing the Team did a better job of depicting what Heroes in Crisis set out to do and it didn't even need to kill anyone.
    That exact episode was what I was hoping we would get. A sit down for all the characters, no real fights or world ending events except maybe flashbacks or some heroes coming to emotional blows. As the title suggests it's the HEROES that are in Crisis. Not the worlds or reality or something major, just a lot of characters dealing with their issues.

    And I knew going into this story that it will get praise and love regardless of quality just because it is trying to cover the topic of mental health. I personally don't see the attempt as any form of merit since I have seen it before. It feels like people are acting that media and pop culture are discovering mental issues and health like it's a first time thing. It's a known topic and explored in a lot of genre fiction, a story doesn't get points because it's following basic story conventions or ideas, that's ludicrous. Intent doesn't mean anything, execution is the only thing that matters when it's all said and done.

    And with the story nearing it's conclusion there is a lot of negative to say and that will be said about this book. I feel that once all the glitz and glamour of the mental health craze and newness of the story fade this will be a black mark on a lot of characters at DC.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  13. #1618
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    If i was a comic character, my surname would be DaCosta
    Posts
    5,173

    Default

    The actual problem here is that Wally was the wrong character for it.

    Period.

    King says that Wally hasn't been in a successful run in forever, well: that's because he was editorially sabotaged. His book wasn't cancelled due to sales, Barry book never sold better than Wally's did, and he couldn't have a successful run for the very simple fact that editorial forbid creatives from using him under any circumstances.

    There was never nothing wrong with the character, he was sabotaged.

    And King may think that this story (that he wrote first, and then squeezed Wally into by mandate) may bring some attention back to the character, and that is really cute, but it's also waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too fucking naive for someone who used to be at CIA.

    Editorial telling him to use Wally for this was part of that sabotage, not an end to it.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

    To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!

  14. #1619
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    9,417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    The actual problem here is that Wally was the wrong character for it.

    Period.

    King says that Wally hasn't been in a successful run in forever, well: that's because he was editorially sabotaged. His book wasn't cancelled due to sales, Barry book never sold better than Wally's did, and he couldn't have a successful run for the very simple fact that editorial forbid creatives from using him under any circumstances.

    There was never nothing wrong with the character, he was sabotaged.

    And King may think that this story (that he wrote first, and then squeezed Wally into by mandate) may bring some attention back to the character, and that is really cute, but it's also waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too fucking naive for someone who used to be at CIA.

    Editorial telling him to use Wally for this was part of that sabotage, not an end to it.
    I would say this about pretty much every Titan minus Cyborg. They have all been actively sabotaged for years now and the go to answer is that they haven't been relevant in years or whatever the main mantra that is being spewed out by "fans" or from people at DC.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  15. #1620
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,017

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    That exact episode was what I was hoping we would get. A sit down for all the characters, no real fights or world ending events except maybe flashbacks or some heroes coming to emotional blows. As the title suggests it's the HEROES that are in Crisis. Not the worlds or reality or something major, just a lot of characters dealing with their issues.

    And I knew going into this story that it will get praise and love regardless of quality just because it is trying to cover the topic of mental health. I personally don't see the attempt as any form of merit since I have seen it before. It feels like people are acting that media and pop culture are discovering mental issues and health like it's a first time thing. It's a known topic and explored in a lot of genre fiction, a story doesn't get points because it's following basic story conventions or ideas, that's ludicrous. Intent doesn't mean anything, execution is the only thing that matters when it's all said and done.

    And with the story nearing it's conclusion there is a lot of negative to say and that will be said about this book. I feel that once all the glitz and glamour of the mental health craze and newness of the story fade this will be a black mark on a lot of characters at DC.
    It's like with Identity Crisis.

    I see people praising it for making the DCU more "complex" or "serious" ignoring all the obvious story and characterization issues on-top of all the grimdark violence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •