Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[WallyWestFlash]

That's what she was though, especially after she recovered and joined up with Jesse's "good Rogues." She didn't just become another villain and we were supposed to emphasize with what she was going through.

She may have been back to herself at the end. It has been awhile since I read it.

But I do remember she was full on evil and crazy for a lot of it and I hated that.

Currently reading Trinity by Busiek and Bagley. In the first few pages, Diana, Bruce and Clark are in Keystone, watching Wally, Irey, and Jai fighting Clayface. It’s so good it’s almost painful.

Even though I don't like the kids that image is great. Never saw it before.

[Kyer]

Same. Also didn't care for the kids, but what they did to poor Jai was inexcusable.
Oh yeah. Angst. yay.
Of course what followed made even the angst look golden by comparison.

[WallyWestFlash]

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[Hol]

I'll never understand why so many didn't like Jai and Iris. (I will never say Irey) I thought they were interesting with lots of potential. Figured Iris would eventually grow into a version of Kid Flash from Chain Lightning and Kingdom Come and Jai was a blank slate. Could have been so many cool Flash stories.

[Adset]

I like the idea of the kids, simply because I've always felt Wally's greatest strength as a strong fictional character is the long, continual growth we've seen from him over the decades. Starting a family seemed like a natural continuation of his story.

That said, they came about during a rather weak era for Flash stories, so I get why a lot of people don't have fond memories of them.

I never understood why Waid went with Irey over Iris, either. Kingdom Come was his co-baby, seemed like an easy slam dunk to bring the KC Kid Flash into the DCU proper.

[Dred]

The thing that gets me is why people are so hateful of Wally's kids because they debuted in, at worst, a few mediocre stories whereas Wally II had two years of pure garbage but everyone was willing to give him every chance under the sun until he became palatable.

[WallyWestFlash]

I don't like kids for these heroes in general. It takes focus away from the main character who I want to read about.

Jon Kent is an example of this. I didn't really care for Tomasi's Superman Rebirth run because Superman was practically a guest star in his own book. I get that Jon was a new character and they were trying to develop him but when I pick up a Superman book I want to read about Superman. Not someone else and just starring him. Action Comics did it a lot better. Jon was around sometimes but as a supporting character only. I don't hate Jon but I really wouldn't care if he dissappeared tomorrow.

Also, this probably won't be popular, but I feel it especially doesn't work for someone like Wally. What makes him unique and why I like his personality is his not being serious, playful and sometimes a bit immature. Having kids changes this. For Superman it works more because his personality is already one where he is more "square" and responsible. For Wally it just takes away what's fun about him.

By the time the kids era came along for Wally Johns had already thrown out most of Wally's fun personality aspects so it didn't really take away from Wally in that regard. Just all the focus from Wally in his own supposed series.

[Dred]

Wally was plenty serious all throughout Waid's run too so I'm not really sure what you're getting at with that.

Kids also tend to be more dramatically light compared to adult drama.

One of the best things about Wally is how he's grown and progressed as a character and person and that was the obvious next step. And if you really like Wally, it's important to accept that he's the product of something that should eventually see him leave the spotlight as the main character -- legacy. His kids being part of that legacy would keep him involved as a member of the family for years to come, even if he's not the main character.

[Hol]

Just an FYI Wait never called her Irey. That was a Johns/Flash Rebirth thing.

[Hol]

I don't like kids for these heroes in general. It takes focus away from the main character who I want to read about.

Jon Kent is an example of this. I didn't really care for Tomasi's Superman Rebirth run because Superman was practically a guest star in his own book. I get that Jon was a new character and they were trying to develop him but when I pick up a Superman book I want to read about Superman. Not someone else and just starring him. Action Comics did it a lot better. Jon was around sometimes but as a supporting character only. I don't hate Jon but I really wouldn't care if he dissappeared tomorrow.

Also, this probably won't be popular, but I feel it especially doesn't work for someone like Wally. What makes him unique and why I like his personality is his not being serious, playful and sometimes a bit immature. Having kids changes this. For Superman it works more because his personality is already one where he is more "square" and responsible. For Wally it just takes away what's fun about him.

By the time the kids era came along for Wally Johns had already thrown out most of Wally's fun personality aspects so it didn't really take away from Wally in that regard. Just all the focus from Wally in his own supposed series.

I have re-read the Wild West issues recently and I actually think the Wally in those issues with the kids was plenty fun along with the serious. And I think the Brave and the Bold #8 shows the family dynamic done right. I think if the Wild Wests and stories after were written and drawn more like this the return of Waid would have been a hit. Critically at least. Waid suffered with Acuna leaving and not being able to use any of the Rogues because they were all off planet.

[Batgrayson]

I liked Jay and Iris at the beginning. She was a happy girl and Jay was a nice brother who was really concerned about their lifes and trying to protect her sister from the thruth of their tragic destinies.

But then came Johns and Flash Rebirth and Jay was made a jelaous powerless child and Iris was like a Baby. They also looked like they were de-aged from 10-12 years old to 8 years, and just like Wally, they were barely used again after all these Big changes.

Man, Flash Rebirth really sucks.

[WallyWestFlash]

I have re-read the Wild West issues recently and I actually think the Wally in those issues with the kids was plenty fun along with the serious. And I think the Brave and the Bold #8 shows the family dynamic done right. I think if the Wild Wests and stories after were written and drawn more like this the return of Waid would have been a hit. Critically at least. Waid suffered with Acuna leaving and not being able to use any of the Rogues because they were all off planet.

I would just rather read Wally as the "Flash" and as a solo character rather than the "Wild Wests" or the West family as an ensemble book.

I liked Jay and Iris at the beginning. She was a happy girl and Jay was a nice brother who was really concerned about their lifes and trying to protect her sister from the thruth of their tragic destinies.

But then came Johns and Flash Rebirth and Jay was made a jelaous powerless child and Iris was like a Baby. They also looked like they were de-aged from 10-12 years old to 8 years, and just like Wally, they were barely used again after all these Big changes.

Man, Flash Rebirth really sucks.

I think Johns was trying to go towards the Kingdom Come time line where Jai is an a hole (Even though his name was Barry in there). I think that's where he was steering him. Especially at the end of Flash Rebirth with Irey taking his powers from him.

And yes. Flash Rebirth did suck so very much. Although the EVS art was amazing. Some.of my favorite Wally images of all time are from there.

Wally-West-the-Flash.jpg

[Spider-Ham]

Wally was plenty serious all throughout Waid's run too so I'm not really sure what you're getting at with that.

Kids also tend to be more dramatically light compared to adult drama.

One of the best things about Wally is how he's grown and progressed as a character and person and that was the obvious next step. And if you really like Wally, it's important to accept that he's the product of something that should eventually see him leave the spotlight as the main character -- legacy. His kids being part of that legacy would keep him involved as a member of the family for years to come, even if he's not the main character.

Great observation.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I like the idea of the kids as being a parent was the next step in the evolution of Wally West but I don't think they should have been given powers, certainly not at first and certainly not those weird muscular powers that Jai was stuck with. I would have liked to see Wally trying to balance his superhero life, which is really all he knew since he was a kid, with the more grounded responsibilities of raising and looking after young children. By giving them powers straight off the bat, you kind of lose that.

Of course, this is all rather moot now.

[WallyWestFlash]

Wally was plenty serious all throughout Waid's run too so I'm not really sure what you're getting at with that.

Kids also tend to be more dramatically light compared to adult drama.

One of the best things about Wally is how he's grown and progressed as a character and person and that was the obvious next step. And if you really like Wally, it's important to accept that he's the product of something that should eventually see him leave the spotlight as the main character -- legacy. His kids being part of that legacy would keep him involved as a member of the family for years to come, even if he's not the main character.

Not really. Wally definitely had serious moments in Waids run but his general character and personality was laid back, sarcastic and sometimes a bit of a lovable mischief maker.

My issue isn't light drama or heavy drama with regards to the kids. Kid drama means the kids are the drama meaning Wally needs to be the responsible, level headed serious one to straighten them.out. Not my favorite aspects of Wally. Not to mention they are thrust in the spotlight with kid drama and Wally is left to support.

I appreciate that Wally has progressed but change just for change sake is not always good. Also if you change a character too much then they lose who they are. I think Johns made this mistake with the third gen in his TT relaunch. When he made Bart KF as well as the changes he made to Superboy and Tim Drake he changed the characters too much and they lost what made them.unique and those characters.

Ironically Johns had the right idea with the DCU Rebirth initiative. Bringing the characters back to their core and the best part of what they were.

I disagree strongly with your last point. I read a Wally comic for Wally. If they replace him with a new character I will.no.longer be interested in it because it's not Wally. And if I am interested it's because I like that character . Nothing to do.with Wally. You could say the Flash theme has to do with legacy but just because a character takes over for Wally doesn't mean im.going to read or like it. And it still.doesn't help me read and enjoy my favorite hero.reading about whomever that someone else might be.