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  1. #2686
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyWestFlash View Post
    I would just rather read Wally as the "Flash" and as a solo character rather than the "Wild Wests" or the West family as an ensemble book.


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    Fair enough. Can't argue with you there.

  2. #2687
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyWestFlash View Post
    Not really. Wally definitely had serious moments in Waids run but his general character and personality was laid back, sarcastic and sometimes a bit of a lovable mischief maker.

    My issue isn't light drama or heavy drama with regards to the kids. Kid drama means the kids are the drama meaning Wally needs to be the responsible, level headed serious one to straighten them.out. Not my favorite aspects of Wally. Not to mention they are thrust in the spotlight with kid drama and Wally is left to support.

    I appreciate that Wally has progressed but change just for change sake is not always good. Also if you change a character too much then they lose who they are. I think Johns made this mistake with the third gen in his TT relaunch. When he made Bart KF as well as the changes he made to Superboy and Tim Drake he changed the characters too much and they lost what made them.unique and those characters.

    Ironically Johns had the right idea with the DCU Rebirth initiative. Bringing the characters back to their core and the best part of what they were.
    How is kid drama even different from, say, Bart drama? We've seen Wally with young, reckless kids -- it was awesome! It was so good they gave Flash the first and only spinoff series it would ever support! And, awesomely, these kids are more tied to Linda than Bart which is great because Linda is great. Speaking of, no, Wally doesn't have to be completely drained of personality and flair to raise his kids and he doesn't have to always be super serious around them, Linda's there to fill in that niche and that's always been her niche. And hell, do you just want the same Wally stories ad infinitum? At least that's a different direction and a different way to flesh out Wally and the cast.

    I disagree strongly with your last point. I read a Wally comic for Wally. If they replace him with a new character I will.no.longer be interested in it because it's not Wally. And if I am interested it's because I like that character . Nothing to do.with Wally. You could say the Flash theme has to do with legacy but just because a character takes over for Wally doesn't mean im.going to read or like it. And it still.doesn't help me read and enjoy my favorite hero.reading about whomever that someone else might be.
    All I'm going to say is, this exact mindset is why Wally is where he has been for years. Only flip it around and apply it to Barry. Ignore, hate, destroy any progression the series or cast might have for the sake of idolizing one character. If this thought process pervaded, we would've never had Wally! We would never have been given the chance to be introduced to such a great character who we got to see grow over the years. Saying that you only want Wally, only will accept Wally, and want the universe to be forever stuck in a status quo that entrenches Wally as The Flash is just what's happening with Barry right now, and what would've killed Wally in the crib. You aren't giving other characters or writers even a chance to show you something you might actually enjoy more! Or at least differently!

    Just because The Flash moves on doesn't mean you'd never get more Wally stories. We still got Barry stories long after he was dead. And in the event that Wally does pass the mantle on, he could still even be around in a Jay Garrick fashion. And, maybe one day in the distant future, Wally would finally move on permanently in this scenario. But that might be the best thing for the next generations of comic fans -- getting a character who suits their times like Wally suited us.
    Last edited by Dred; 08-12-2019 at 07:37 PM.

  3. #2688
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    To be honest, I kind of want to read the run with the kids just to finally see for myself what it was like. I bought the first issue for FCBD and read a Brave and the Bold issue with them in it, but that's about it for that era.

  4. #2689
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    The doom patrol crossover issue was pretty fun.

    The problem with the kids is no one had a plan for them when they came back. They just decided to bring Wally back out of the blue to buffer for Barry and tossed the book at Waid in a hail mary, so not a whole lot of plans for them. When Waid left it was just fill in writers doing generic nonsense like "Oh Wally's powers aren't working right for 10 issues" and whatnot. Never really got a chance to be interesting.

  5. #2690
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest, I kind of want to read the run with the kids just to finally see for myself what it was like. I bought the first issue for FCBD and read a Brave and the Bold issue with them in it, but that's about it for that era.
    Sadly, that Brave and the Bold issue was pretty much it for good Wally comics from that era. Even those issues that were halfway decently written were sunk by art that was largely either completely terrible or good but a terrible fit for the book.

    What should have been the next step in the saga of Wally West ended up as filler that basically ended his run as the Flash with a thudding "whatever".
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  6. #2691
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyWestFlash View Post

    I appreciate that Wally has progressed but change just for change sake is not always good. Also if you change a character too much then they lose who they are. I think Johns made this mistake with the third gen in his TT relaunch. When he made Bart KF as well as the changes he made to Superboy and Tim Drake he changed the characters too much and they lost what made them.unique and those characters.

    Ironically Johns had the right idea with the DCU Rebirth initiative. Bringing the characters back to their core and the best part of what they were.
    I personally STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS...

    Johns Conner Kent was better than he was during YJ or his Solo-Run...During YJ and also during his own title Series he was often displayed just as clown.
    He was often just annoying like for example when he was in Gotham and had the paper bag over his head and played Batman while Robin was on patrol.
    Johns Conner wasnt perfectly but at least he earned the respect of the of other heroes when he sacrificied himself during IC.
    I also like more the origin and power-set of Johns Superboy (TTK+ALL Kryptonian Powers)..

    I also liked Bart Allen more during TT...He was more down to earth and also earned the right to call himself Kid Flash.
    I like Impulse, but he as Kid Flash was just more the hero which his powers allow him to be.

    It wasnt all perfect, BUT! the beginning of TT until the End of IC was absolutely perfect for me.

  7. #2692
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    How is kid drama even different from, say, Bart drama? We've seen Wally with young, reckless kids -- it was awesome! It was so good they gave Flash the first and only spinoff series it would ever support! And, awesomely, these kids are more tied to Linda than Bart which is great because Linda is great. Speaking of, no, Wally doesn't have to be completely drained of personality and flair to raise his kids and he doesn't have to always be super serious around them, Linda's there to fill in that niche and that's always been her niche. And hell, do you just want the same Wally stories ad infinitum? At least that's a different direction and a different way to flesh out Wally and the cast.



    All I'm going to say is, this exact mindset is why Wally is where he has been for years. Only flip it around and apply it to Barry. Ignore, hate, destroy any progression the series or cast might have for the sake of idolizing one character. If this thought process pervaded, we would've never had Wally! We would never have been given the chance to be introduced to such a great character who we got to see grow over the years. Saying that you only want Wally, only will accept Wally, and want the universe to be forever stuck in a status quo that entrenches Wally as The Flash is just what's happening with Barry right now, and what would've killed Wally in the crib. You aren't giving other characters or writers even a chance to show you something you might actually enjoy more! Or at least differently!

    Just because The Flash moves on doesn't mean you'd never get more Wally stories. We still got Barry stories long after he was dead. And in the event that Wally does pass the mantle on, he could still even be around in a Jay Garrick fashion. And, maybe one day in the distant future, Wally would finally move on permanently in this scenario. But that might be the best thing for the next generations of comic fans -- getting a character who suits their times like Wally suited us.
    I'm glad you brought up Bart. Great example. They introduced him in Wallys series and then spun him off into his own. It didn't become Flash with his trusty sidekick Impulse. Bart didnt take over Wallys comic.
    When your a father and have to deal with kids you have to act very responsible and serious and can't be as care free. Which is a big part of Wallys draw for me. Linda's personality also changed a lot into the serious doctor when.the kids came along. If when you say the same Wally stories ad infinitum you mean Wally being a hero with his fun personality intact then yes. The kids take away from this for me.

    Your second paragraph competely baffles me. We are talking in a Wally thread so yes I would like him to be around. Why are we even in this thread if we don't even care if Wally just moves on and disappears? Why don't you go into the Hal Jordan page or Batman page and tell all the people in there that even though they love the characer it's just time to move on and let those characters dissappear in the distance. Bye Bruce Wayne. Make way for Damian Wayne. He had his time. Time to make way for the new generation. What???

    The next generation can get their favorites too. Why does that mean you need to throw out the past ones?
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake.

    Currently Reading: All Star Comics, Justice League of America (Satalite years era), Huntress ('89 series)

  8. #2693
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I personally STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS...

    Johns Conner Kent was better than he was during YJ or his Solo-Run...During YJ and also during his own title Series he was often displayed just as clown.
    He was often just annoying like for example when he was in Gotham and had the paper bag over his head and played Batman while Robin was on patrol.
    Johns Conner wasnt perfectly but at least he earned the respect of the of other heroes when he sacrificied himself during IC.
    I also like more the origin and power-set of Johns Superboy (TTK+ALL Kryptonian Powers)..

    I also liked Bart Allen more during TT...He was more down to earth and also earned the right to call himself Kid Flash.
    I like Impulse, but he as Kid Flash was just more the hero which his powers allow him to be.

    It wasnt all perfect, BUT! the beginning of TT until the End of IC was absolutely perfect for me.
    Progressing a character is fine but just... no, to all of this. Johns completely and utterly ruined Superboy, Impulse and Wonder Girl in his Teen Titans. From their personalities to their powers, he systematically removed everything that was unique and interesting about these characters in the first place. His TT run was fine on a plotting level but, holy hell, was it a trainwreck in terms of characterization.

    Thank heavens for Brian Michael Bendis, who has written these characters more in-character than anyone since the original YJ ended.

    Which is why I said it before and I'll say it again, give him a Wally West book as part of his Wonder Comics imprint. I mean, he's rather busy right now but this has to happen at some point, right?
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  9. #2694
    Wally West Aficionado Spider-Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post

    Which is why I said it before and I'll say it again, give him a Wally West book as part of his Wonder Comics imprint. I mean, he's rather busy right now but this has to happen at some point, right?
    I would love to see Wally and the Titans in the Wonder Comics imprint. With a lot of crossover with the Young Justice ongoing.
    The Flash is not about Tragedy - Wally West Appreciation Thread : 376 pages.
    Wally West Appreciation Thread 2018 : 94 pages
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  10. #2695
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyWestFlash View Post
    I'm glad you brought up Bart. Great example. They introduced him in Wallys series and then spun him off into his own. It didn't become Flash with his trusty sidekick Impulse. Bart didnt take over Wallys comic.
    When your a father and have to deal with kids you have to act very responsible and serious and can't be as care free. Which is a big part of Wallys draw for me. Linda's personality also changed a lot into the serious doctor when.the kids came along. If when you say the same Wally stories ad infinitum you mean Wally being a hero with his fun personality intact then yes. The kids take away from this for me.

    Your second paragraph competely baffles me. We are talking in a Wally thread so yes I would like him to be around. Why are we even in this thread if we don't even care if Wally just moves on and disappears? Why don't you go into the Hal Jordan page or Batman page and tell all the people in there that even though they love the characer it's just time to move on and let those characters dissappear in the distance. Bye Bruce Wayne. Make way for Damian Wayne. He had his time. Time to make way for the new generation. What???

    The next generation can get their favorites too. Why does that mean you need to throw out the past ones?
    I'm personally talking about a long term storytelling scenario that revolves around Wally that could potentially segue into the character moving on.

    It's not hateful or disrespectful of Wally to favor concepts that are core to his character. Wally is THE Legacy character and I think spitting on the idea of legacy is disrespectful to Wally's character as well.

  11. #2696
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I personally STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS...

    Johns Conner Kent was better than he was during YJ or his Solo-Run...During YJ and also during his own title Series he was often displayed just as clown.
    He was often just annoying like for example when he was in Gotham and had the paper bag over his head and played Batman while Robin was on patrol.
    Johns Conner wasnt perfectly but at least he earned the respect of the of other heroes when he sacrificied himself during IC.
    I also like more the origin and power-set of Johns Superboy (TTK+ALL Kryptonian Powers)..

    I also liked Bart Allen more during TT...He was more down to earth and also earned the right to call himself Kid Flash.
    I like Impulse, but he as Kid Flash was just more the hero which his powers allow him to be.

    It wasnt all perfect, BUT! the beginning of TT until the End of IC was absolutely perfect for me.
    I loved Peter David's YJ. One of my favorite series out there.

    To each his own I guess but I loved Bart as Impulse. Such a fun and different character. When Johns made him KF he lost all that and just became a generic hero like most every one else.

    Superboy was also a great character who Johns made dark and angsty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    Progressing a character is fine but just... no, to all of this. Johns completely and utterly ruined Superboy, Impulse and Wonder Girl in his Teen Titans. From their personalities to their powers, he systematically removed everything that was unique and interesting about these characters in the first place. His TT run was fine on a plotting level but, holy hell, was it a trainwreck in terms of characterization.

    Thank heavens for Brian Michael Bendis, who has written these characters more in-character than anyone since the original YJ ended.

    Which is why I said it before and I'll say it again, give him a Wally West book as part of his Wonder Comics imprint. I mean, he's rather busy right now but this has to happen at some point, right?
    Well said.

    I don't really care for Bendis cutesy talk but it absolutely works for Impulse and I'm loving his writing of him. The first time Bart is himself since Johns TT.

    Bendis on Wally wouldnt be my first pick but i would be interested to see what he would do. The tone that Bendis usually writes in matches Wally.
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake.

    Currently Reading: All Star Comics, Justice League of America (Satalite years era), Huntress ('89 series)

  12. #2697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I personally STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS...

    Johns Conner Kent was better than he was during YJ or his Solo-Run...During YJ and also during his own title Series he was often displayed just as clown.
    He was often just annoying like for example when he was in Gotham and had the paper bag over his head and played Batman while Robin was on patrol.
    Johns Conner wasnt perfectly but at least he earned the respect of the of other heroes when he sacrificied himself during IC.
    I also like more the origin and power-set of Johns Superboy (TTK+ALL Kryptonian Powers)..

    I also liked Bart Allen more during TT...He was more down to earth and also earned the right to call himself Kid Flash.
    I like Impulse, but he as Kid Flash was just more the hero which his powers allow him to be.

    It wasnt all perfect, BUT! the beginning of TT until the End of IC was absolutely perfect for me.
    Absolutely 100% agreed.

    I hate how Bendis has devolved the characters. He has destroyed practically everything he has touched at DC.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 08-13-2019 at 10:41 AM.

  13. #2698
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    I liked Jay and Iris as it gave Wally, a proper first for DC heroes, a biological Son....until Damien came along and muck up the whole idea of Multiverse/alternate realities and all that, and a biological daughter to properly raise in a way that he wasn't when he was young with his folks and Barry.

    Wally HAD TO TRAIN THEM and not Ignore them like he did with Bart if they ever got his powers of speed. It place Wally in a very unique position and one I am annoyed that DC never took full advantage of.

    Wally could never get rid of these kids, unless it was editorial, in case that either of them had SPeed powers. Unlike what they did with Catwoman and her daughter.

    Truly a miss opportunity for DC here.
    Last edited by Cmbmool; 08-13-2019 at 12:18 PM.

  14. #2699
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake.

    Currently Reading: All Star Comics, Justice League of America (Satalite years era), Huntress ('89 series)

  15. #2700
    Wally West Aficionado Spider-Ham's Avatar
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    Loved this issue. Full of hope, with a nice relationship between Clark and Wally and the promise that our hero would fight for Linda.

    On the bright side, we just have to wait another month to see her again ! Can't wait !
    The Flash is not about Tragedy - Wally West Appreciation Thread : 376 pages.
    Wally West Appreciation Thread 2018 : 94 pages
    Good stories must survive : https://theflashlives.com/

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