Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Kyer]

I think he's referring to the very early stories where Wally was seeing a therapist, but that was pre-Linda let alone the kids. Unless it was something in the new (recently deceased) Titans as I gave up reading that story line after the pace maker fiasco and his being made dead....again.

That is the thing that is most pissing me off. We have seen more dead Wally pages than live Wally pages since Rebirth began!
Okay, that's hyperbole, but still....annoying.

[Lee]

First, King hasn't written Wally before but in his most recent interview on Wordballoon he made it clear just how much he loves Wally West as a character.

Someone linked that at one point, but it was a looong interview. Do you have a time stamp for when the conversation shifts to Wally?

[BohemiaDrinker]

Though, one thing, I'm not aware of the story where Wally goes to therapy to deal with the loss of his wife and kids. Which series was that in?

This was during the transition period from Bill Loebs to Mark Waid. They co-wroite or co-plotted it or something. But I don't recall if it was in the main book or some special.

[Dred]

Well, no surprise that you disagree with me...

To your points. First, King hasn't written Wally before but in his most recent interview on Wordballoon he made it clear just how much he loves Wally West as a character. I do understand ignoring that and judging him purely on his work but the only time he has written Wally is in a story that is specifically tailored, by the nature of its genre, to mislead the audience.

Second, fair point that Sanctuary has been a failure but that still doesn't mean he isn't trying to work through his trauma, which is the crucial point here. Going to a bad therapist while dealing with your issues may not help but teh very act of going means that the issues are being addressed. King is too smart not to know that.

Your final paragraph has to do with plot machinations and you may be entirely right. I don't know. But this is superhero comics so King has plenty of leeway to go nuts with the final revelations. He may well completely screw the finale up, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't mean that Wally won't come out of it better than when he came in.

Finally, my biggest issue with what you wrote is the whole idea of Wally not being a hero defined by tragedy. You're right about that but this change happened before King got his hands on him. Both Wally and Barry have had tragedy shoe-horned into their story, both by Geoff Johns, and it doesn't fit. Still, it is what it is and Wally is stuck having to face the eradication of his wife and kids and though I don't like this change to Wally any more than I like having Barry dealing with his mother's death and father's false imprisonment but it is where his character is right now and, for the themes that King is trying to explore, he is currently the perfect character to spotlight in a series about something like Sanctuary. What this means for Wally post-HiC is impossible to say, but even though the story is two-thirds finished, there's no reason to assume that King is, in any way, actually out to get Wally or to turn him evil.

Though, one thing, I'm not aware of the story where Wally goes to therapy to deal with the loss of his wife and kids. Which series was that in?

Many people have espoused their love of Wally for years. It has not amounted to much.

Wally went to therapy in WML's run. Grief council over the deaths in his life (primarily Barry), the big shoes he was to fill, etc. I'd say those issues set up Return of Barry Allen the most (this was when Waid was a co-editor on the comic setting up his own run, though he definitely did not have ROBA planned at that point). Wally dealt with losing Linda in Black Flash, and losing his children in Blitz, though there was no therapy shown in there. I was just alluding to how all these elements are already present throughout Wally's very, very well built character arc and King's take has been anathema to it. Wally literally saw Linda die and, after a single issue of grieving, decided to go face off with Death. If you think that's the character King's writing then I'm not sure what to say.

Saying "This is where they are right now" is very disingenuous. Wally's been through this story before. A couple of times with Linda! Saying Wally is the perfect character to highlight King's misery porn isn't good, either. It means he's a vessel for King's wants rather than King writing the character. For many, many years Wally stood in defiance of an overly grim and gritty 90s where everyone was edgy and traumatized and morbid. Part of Johns' run was having Wally outright state he and Barry did not do what they do out of some misbegotten delusion of vengeance or sorrow, but because it was the right thing to do -- the same run with Blitz and all (Wally losing his children and his wife leaving him!) where, in spite of that and even forgetting he was a hero...he was still a hero. Who kept on doing what was right.

Because that's the kind of character Wally was. That he's not anymore because King wants to make us all feel really miserable isn't a good excuse. Taking a character who embodies optimism and progression and making him depressed and reclusive is not particularly good. Why would I like stripping Wally of all his greatest qualities and replacing them with anything else, really?

And sure, maybe Wally isn't the killer. But that #9 cover does not look good, which is what we're reacting to.

[WallyWestFlash]

This was during the transition period from Bill Loebs to Mark Waid. They co-wroite or co-plotted it or something. But I don't recall if it was in the main book or some special.

Are you reffering to this story line where Wally joins some cult to talk to his "dead" father? It was a pretty good story.

622675.jpg

[WallyWestFlash]

Many people have espoused their love of Wally for years. It has not amounted to much.

Wally went to therapy in WML's run. Grief council over the deaths in his life (primarily Barry), the big shoes he was to fill, etc. I'd say those issues set up Return of Barry Allen the most (this was when Waid was a co-editor on the comic setting up his own run, though he definitely did not have ROBA planned at that point). Wally dealt with losing Linda in Black Flash, and losing his children in Blitz, though there was no therapy shown in there. I was just alluding to how all these elements are already present throughout Wally's very, very well built character arc and King's take has been anathema to it. Wally literally saw Linda die and, after a single issue of grieving, decided to go face off with Death. If you think that's the character King's writing then I'm not sure what to say.

Saying "This is where they are right now" is very disingenuous. Wally's been through this story before. A couple of times with Linda! Saying Wally is the perfect character to highlight King's misery porn isn't good, either. It means he's a vessel for King's wants rather than King writing the character. For many, many years Wally stood in defiance of an overly grim and gritty 90s where everyone was edgy and traumatized and morbid. Part of Johns' run was having Wally outright state he and Barry did not do what they do out of some misbegotten delusion of vengeance or sorrow, but because it was the right thing to do -- the same run with Blitz and all (Wally losing his children and his wife leaving him!) where, in spite of that and even forgetting he was a hero...he was still a hero. Who kept on doing what was right.

Because that's the kind of character Wally was. That he's not anymore because King wants to make us all feel really miserable isn't a good excuse. Taking a character who embodies optimism and progression and making him depressed and reclusive is not particularly good. Why would I like stripping Wally of all his greatest qualities and replacing them with anything else, really?

And sure, maybe Wally isn't the killer. But that #9 cover does not look good, which is what we're reacting to.

Well said.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

This was during the transition period from Bill Loebs to Mark Waid. They co-wroite or co-plotted it or something. But I don't recall if it was in the main book or some special.

Ah, I see. I thought he(?) was talking about something more current. I don't recall that but there are a few Messner-Loebs issues that I haven't read as of yet.

Many people have espoused their love of Wally for years. It has not amounted to much.

Wally went to therapy in WML's run. Grief council over the deaths in his life (primarily Barry), the big shoes he was to fill, etc. I'd say those issues set up Return of Barry Allen the most (this was when Waid was a co-editor on the comic setting up his own run, though he definitely did not have ROBA planned at that point). Wally dealt with losing Linda in Black Flash, and losing his children in Blitz, though there was no therapy shown in there. I was just alluding to how all these elements are already present throughout Wally's very, very well built character arc and King's take has been anathema to it. Wally literally saw Linda die and, after a single issue of grieving, decided to go face off with Death. If you think that's the character King's writing then I'm not sure what to say.

Saying "This is where they are right now" is very disingenuous. Wally's been through this story before. A couple of times with Linda! Saying Wally is the perfect character to highlight King's misery porn isn't good, either. It means he's a vessel for King's wants rather than King writing the character. For many, many years Wally stood in defiance of an overly grim and gritty 90s where everyone was edgy and traumatized and morbid. Part of Johns' run was having Wally outright state he and Barry did not do what they do out of some misbegotten delusion of vengeance or sorrow, but because it was the right thing to do -- the same run with Blitz and all (Wally losing his children and his wife leaving him!) where, in spite of that and even forgetting he was a hero...he was still a hero. Who kept on doing what was right.

Because that's the kind of character Wally was. That he's not anymore because King wants to make us all feel really miserable isn't a good excuse. Taking a character who embodies optimism and progression and making him depressed and reclusive is not particularly good. Why would I like stripping Wally of all his greatest qualities and replacing them with anything else, really?

And sure, maybe Wally isn't the killer. But that #9 cover does not look good, which is what we're reacting to.

OK, I get what you're saying a bit more. I do think that the damage done to Wally happened long before King got his hands on him. Indeed, the finger-click at the end of Blitz was the beginning of the troubles for Wally as it both reintroduced Wally's secret identity and made him more like Barry in the process and felt like an incredibly cynical, exploitative move to move the character in a darker direction. The rest of Johns' run was fine, to be sure, but definitely not up to what came before and things got worse and worse; from DC having no interest in Wally during the era when the kids were around, cancelling his book, nerfing him in Rebirth, leaving him out of the Nu52, reintroducing him during Rebirth without his family and relegating him to a supporting role in a rather bad Titans book - he's been broken down badly over the years so what King is doing, shockingly, doesn't feel like it's coming out of nowhere.

I'm certainly not expecting it but I'm hoping that Wally will come out of this in a better place than he has been in years after gpoing through, what is in effect, intensive "therapy".

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Are you reffering to this story line where Wally joins some cult to talk to his "dead" father? It was a pretty good story.

622675.jpg

Oh wait, I have read that! It's just been a long, long, long while...

[Sam]

Are you reffering to this story line where Wally joins some cult to talk to his "dead" father? It was a pretty good story.

622675.jpg

No, it was Balence Sheet. Issue 44 of that run. It's really, really good.

I think Wally also visited the same therapist in one of the annuals as well.

[Dred]

Ah, I see. I thought he(?) was talking about something more current. I don't recall that but there are a few Messner-Loebs issues that I haven't read as of yet.



OK, I get what you're saying a bit more. I do think that the damage done to Wally happened long before King got his hands on him. Indeed, the finger-click at the end of Blitz was the beginning of the troubles for Wally as it both reintroduced Wally's secret identity and made him more like Barry in the process and felt like an incredibly cynical, exploitative move to move the character in a darker direction. The rest of Johns' run was fine, to be sure, but definitely not up to what came before and things got worse and worse; from DC having no interest in Wally during the era when the kids were around, cancelling his book, nerfing him in Rebirth, leaving him out of the Nu52, reintroducing him during Rebirth without his family and relegating him to a supporting role in a rather bad Titans book - he's been broken down badly over the years so what King is doing, shockingly, doesn't feel like it's coming out of nowhere.

I'm certainly not expecting it but I'm hoping that Wally will come out of this in a better place than he has been in years after gpoing through, what is in effect, intensive "therapy".

King said it from the outset. This comic, HiC, is about taking Harley and Booster and making them core to DC.

That is not the case with Wally, who is the third most important character in the story so far. So if he's not that, then he's much more likely to be an antagonistic presence.

There is no better place because he has no place to be. He's just not wanted and not relevant to the brass, but since he is popular he can be used like this.

[WallyWestFlash]

Qoute from Bendis's Q and A on reddit today.

But Bendis wasn’t done talking about the fan-favorite comic. Asked by Redditor IsAFan25:

Hello and thanks for doing this! What stroke of genius gave you the idea to include Amethyst in Young Justice? Have you always been a fan of hers? Also, would you be interested in writing Wally West one day?

Bendis said:

I was a very big fan of the original Amethyst series. I think it is highly underrated. It’s filled with unbridled imagination and joy in the best DC way. It might’ve been a little ahead of its time. I feel about Amy the way I feel about Luke Cage. Like I proved myself with Luke in AVENGERS, I hope to prove my point in YOUNG JUSTICE.

Also, I love Wally!!

So yup. Everyone "loves" Wally. A lot of diplomatic lip service that amounts to nothing. Just like King saying he loves Wally also

[Dred]

Bendis is one of the few I would give a pass. He's new to the DC scene and busy with a lot of stuff. He already brought back YJ, shouldn't put all your hopes in one guy.

[Lee]

So yup. Everyone "loves" Wally. A lot of diplomatic lip service that amounts to nothing. Just like King saying he loves Wally also

Are you seriously upset that Bendis said he loves Wally? What makes you doubt his sincerity?

[Dred]

Are you seriously upset that Bendis said he loves Wally? What makes you doubt his sincerity?

It's less a doubt of sincerity and more that basically every single writer in and out of DC's offices has said they love Wally and, well, look where we've been for a decade.

The original point was talking about how King said he "loves" Wally but that means jack nothing. Same with any other writer saying the same thing.

[WallyWestFlash]

Are you seriously upset that Bendis said he loves Wally? What makes you doubt his sincerity?

Who said I'm upset. I think you'r reading my one comment out of context of the discussion on here.

It's less a doubt of sincerity and more that basically every single writer in and out of DC's offices has said they love Wally and, well, look where we've been for a decade.

The original point was talking about how King said he "loves" Wally but that means jack nothing. Same with any other writer saying the same thing.

Thank you. That was my point.