Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[WallyWestFlash]

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

First. Wally is not writen like himself at all. Just the generic King, whimsical, stuttering buffoon he writes all his characters .

Second the motivation makes no sense. He didn't believe the VR that there were others in there besides for him so he broke through? That's the motive?because he thought he was being lied to and no one else needed to go through therapy. Weak.

Also he doesn't know Wally at all. There is a page before he explodes where Wally says his speed is a burden and he has to try hard every day to keep it in and every moment is a struggle. Since he was a kid he had to deal with this. This is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Wally. Every moment is a gift. Wally loves being a hero and loves his speed. This was his wish fulfillment as a kid.

OK so he explodes from... I don't know. Never seen speedsters use their power like this. But it's not too bad. He didn't out right kill anyone . But his reaction to cover the murders up is not only way out of character but makes no sense. Just tell people what happened. Heroes have made mistakes before.

And the way Wally does everything King just hand waves it away cuz you know super speed is just a magic wand. Also another big plot hole if present Wally went into the future and had his future self kill his past self then future Wally shouldn't exist right?

The puddlers thing was also pointless and dumb.

Besides for the character assassination of one of the greatest heroes the story itself is just so dumb and pointless.

[Marvel Man]

spoilers:

Didn't Flash War make it so Speedsters couldn't time travel anymore? And it finished with Wally going to Sanctuary just because of it. Did something happen between then and now so Wally can time travel again? Or maybe this is the biggest clue that this is not the real Wally. Or maybe is just a very very big plot hole.

end of spoilers

Ok, I have read it again and...

spoilers:

In HiC#8 it says that Wally borrows Booster Gold technology to time travel, but this still doesn't make sense to me. With that technology, he could have traveled back in time instead of traveled forward to kill himself, for example. Besides, this makes the end of Flash War a mess. Because there are only two explanations that I can think about: or he cannot travel in time at all, not even with technology, so HiC makes no sense but Flash War does. Or he could have traveled using that tech like he does in HiC, but the ending of Flash War and the reason for Wally to be there is an absolute nonsense.

end of spoilers

[Denirac]

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

First. Wally is not writen like himself at all. Just the generic King, whimsical, stuttering buffoon he writes all his characters .

Second the motivation makes no sense. He didn't believe the VR that there were others in there besides for him so he broke through? That's the motive?because he thought he was being lied to and no one else needed to go through therapy. Weak.

Also he doesn't know Wally at all. There is a page before he explodes where Wally says his speed is a burden and he has to try hard every day to keep it in and every moment is a struggle. Since he was a kid he had to deal with this. This is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Wally. Every moment is a gift. Wally loves being a hero and loves his speed. This was his wish fulfillment as a kid.

OK so he explodes from... I don't know. Never seen speedsters use their power like this. But it's not too bad. He didn't out right kill anyone . But his reaction to cover the murders up is not only way out of character but makes no sense. Just tell people what happened. Heroes have made mistakes before.

And the way Wally does everything King just hand waves it away cuz you know super speed is just a magic wand. Also another big plot hole if present Wally went into the future and had his future self kill his past self then future Wally shouldn't exist right?

The puddlers thing was also pointless and dumb.

Besides for the character assassination of one of the greatest heroes the story itself is just so dumb and pointless.

“Pointless and Dumb Character Assassination” described my opinions of King’s Work in General since he came to DC, Even Mr Miracle suffered in its back half

[Comic-Reader Lad]

For those of you who are speculating about Dan DiDio's reasoning and motivations and are also blaming Tom King, I think that Patrick Gerard's post from the " Jeph Loeb's Superman Run Being Collected Soon--- Thoughts on hs run?" in the Superman forum clearly explains everything so that fans no longer need to question themselves or speculate. Gerard was an aspiring writer for DC at the time of the Our Worlds at War event and later and saw a lot of inside stuff from before DiDio's hiring and after.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4317583

Here are the relevant paragraphs:

- Here's what you should know about event stories -- whether something is planned as an event or gets "upgraded" into one. Publishers have lists of characters they want dead or changed and a condition of doing an event is that you have to hit those marks. Often 10-20 characters the company wants to kill off. Maybe some they want to de-power. This doesn't originate with writers. If you take something like Identity Crisis, Brad Meltzer scripts the scenes and writes the dialogue and comes up with the mysteries but he's ASSIGNED to kill off Firestorm and Ray Palmer and Jack Drake and so on. Events are assigned so that you get "kill lists" and "change lists" and you have to shove those into a story that was envisioned without them or without ALL of them. Sometimes a writer can get a stay of execution by writing a character into retirement or having them just vanish. (Like Ray Palmer in Identity Crisis.)

- On top of all of this is that I think there's a lot of folks who misread DiDio in part because, well... He's a troll. A bonafied troll. Yes, he wanted Nightwing dead for years and planned it various ways. But all the stuff about hating Nightwing was playacting. He did it because he thought it would upset the most people. He has a very soap opera/pro-wrestling view and he's more of a Silver-Age/Bronze-Age Marvel guy than DC. So he's always trying to inject that 70s Marvel "Hank Pym becomes a wifebeater" type stuff in. Because he has a view that the more comics upset or provoke people, the more they sell. Honestly, if he wants a character dead, he probably likes that character and is picking on them because he wants to stir up pitchforks and torches. He's backed off that SOME largely because outrage works differently online now. But he operates very much from kind of a Bill Jemas worldview: "If you're happy with what we're doing, our sales will suffer." That's... a difficult thing for some folks IN COMICS to mesh with. Some folks just want a clean and fairly neutral status quo so they can tell clever one off stories kind of like Batman: The Animated Series.

- So, basically, it might not be fair to blame Tom King for this as, like Brad Meltzer, he may have had a "kill list" from DiDio to work off of.

- DiDio is a troll who LIKES to piss off readers because he feels that reader apathy and ambivalence is worse than readers hating him or the comics.


In a way, this is true. DiDio specifically initiated the Rebirth direction because he said that at a Comics Convention where he was on the panel, when it came time to talk about the future of the DCYou initiative, fans either got up and left or didn't care. He said in interviews regarding the Rebirth One-Shot that fan apathy was "palpable." And, let's face it, the DCYou line was NOT really polarizing or controversial in any way. It was just dull. So, it might be true that nicey-nice fun comics just don't sell. Otherwise, the Bizarro comic would be on its 50th issue.

Well, given that most people haven't read HIC 8 yet, the fan reaction is already anything but apathetic. So, in that sense, he is getting people talking.

However, I feel that there is a limit to the number of times you can tweak the fans' collective nose and have them keep coming back for more.

I'm very curious to see how many people who say they are swearing off DC will really do so. With Batman: Last Knight on Earth and Year of the Villain coming up, it will be interesting to see if fans really penalize DC for HIC or if they just shrug it off by assuring themselves that in comics nothing is permanent and that Wally will be back one day fully redeemed.

I'm also very curious what Geoff Johns feels about all this because Johns says he only wrote the DC Rebirth special in the first place on the condition that he was able to bring back Wally.

I'm also starting to wonder if the delays on Doomsday Clock have anything to do with the events in Heroes in Crisis. Maybe Johns got wind of what HIC is doing and wanted to delay DClock so that he can write an ending that brings Wally back and undoes HIC.

One thing is for sure. The remainder of the year will be very interesting at DC -- more for any behind the scenes fallout than anything else.

[Cmbmool]

So Dan Didio is like the DC Comics version of Star Wars Rain Johnson ?!?

[Denirac]

So Dan Didio is like the DC Comics version of Star Wars Rain Johnson ?!?

Dan DiDio’s been at DC since 2002, He was Rian Johnson before Johnson existed and he’s more toxic. DiDio is a Child from the Silver Age and wants that and only that, and if anything is added to the characters in his toybox, he breaks them or throws the rattle out the pram til someone gives him his own way

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I’m usually the last person who would ever say this. But I’m gonna have to say it. We need another reboot.

[Denirac]

I’m usually the last person who would ever say this. But I’m gonna have to say it. We need another reboot.

It wont make this go away, this only goes away when DiDio does

[Jekyll]

For those of you who are speculating about Dan DiDio's reasoning and motivations and are also blaming Tom King, I think that Patrick Gerard's post from the " Jeph Loeb's Superman Run Being Collected Soon--- Thoughts on hs run?" in the Superman forum clearly explains everything so that fans no longer need to question themselves or speculate. Gerard was an aspiring writer for DC at the time of the Our Worlds at War event and later and saw a lot of inside stuff from before DiDio's hiring and after.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4317583

Here are the relevant paragraphs:



- So, basically, it might not be fair to blame Tom King for this as, like Brad Meltzer, he may have had a "kill list" from DiDio to work off of.

- DiDio is a troll who LIKES to piss off readers because he feels that reader apathy and ambivalence is worse than readers hating him or the comics.


In a way, this is true. DiDio specifically initiated the Rebirth direction because he said that at a Comics Convention where he was on the panel, when it came time to talk about the future of the DCYou initiative, fans either got up and left or didn't care. He said in interviews regarding the Rebirth One-Shot that fan apathy was "palpable." And, let's face it, the DCYou line was NOT really polarizing or controversial in any way. It was just dull. So, it might be true that nicey-nice fun comics just don't sell. Otherwise, the Bizarro comic would be on its 50th issue.

Well, given that most people haven't read HIC 8 yet, the fan reaction is already anything but apathetic. So, in that sense, he is getting people talking.

However, I feel that there is a limit to the number of times you can tweak the fans' collective nose and have them keep coming back for more.

I'm very curious to see how many people who say they are swearing off DC will really do so. With Batman: Last Knight on Earth and Year of the Villain coming up, it will be interesting to see if fans really penalize DC for HIC or if they just shrug it off by assuring themselves that in comics nothing is permanent and that Wally will be back one day fully redeemed.

I'm also very curious what Geoff Johns feels about all this because Johns says he only wrote the DC Rebirth special in the first place on the condition that he was able to bring back Wally.

I'm also starting to wonder if the delays on Doomsday Clock have anything to do with the events in Heroes in Crisis. Maybe Johns got wind of what HIC is doing and wanted to delay DClock so that he can write an ending that brings Wally back and undoes HIC.

One thing is for sure. The remainder of the year will be very interesting at DC -- more for any behind the scenes fallout than anything else.

This is just me personally, but his vision and what he's pushing has created my apathy for all things DC. Traditionally DC has been my universe much more than Marvel and even when something made me upset, there were plenty of other things in the DCU for me to turn my attention to. Now? There is nothing, with the exception of Shazam! by Geoff Johns.

I've collected the Flash all my life and I straight up quit with the New 52 and then quit again after Flash War and I don't miss those holes in my collection one bit! My favorite DC characters are either: missing or dead and I straight up don't care anymore and haven't for some time. It freed up my money to spend on books that I enjoy and look forward to from other companies. I don't even bother browsing the DC section in my LCS or other shops that I visit.

A few years ago I would have been ranting and screaming about this HIC nonsense, this morning all I did was laugh and shake my head. Didio created the apathy for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[qwertyuiop1998]

I’m usually the last person who would ever say this. But I’m gonna have to say it. We need another reboot.

I would say we need another Green lantern Rebirth like Johns did in post-crisis to hal
Fixing everything they did wrong and keeping what they did right

[Tendrin]

*reads what happened*

Oh for pity's sake. DC is shambles.

[Starman]

Hopefully Johns fixes this in Doomsday Clock. It would be super easy to say that Doctor Manhattan was behind the speed force overload that killed everyone. It's basically what he did with Firestorm already anyway.

[WallyWestFlash]

First off Didio has explained why he doesn't like Wally and Dick and legacy heroes. It's a stupid reasoning but still a reasoning so I don't buy he really does like these characters.

Secondly trolling and pissing off your customers is never a good business model. Sure, we'll upset and anger people then they'll definitely want to buy our product. Because we love to spend money to upset oursleves and make us miserable. I don't buy comics to be entertained and have fun.

And I am one of those that has bought his last DC comic for awhile. After this disgusting event I am done. Maybe I'll come back when they fix this **** show. Maybe.

[qwertyuiop1998]

For those of you who are speculating about Dan DiDio's reasoning and motivations and are also blaming Tom King, I think that Patrick Gerard's post from the " Jeph Loeb's Superman Run Being Collected Soon--- Thoughts on hs run?" in the Superman forum clearly explains everything so that fans no longer need to question themselves or speculate. Gerard was an aspiring writer for DC at the time of the Our Worlds at War event and later and saw a lot of inside stuff from before DiDio's hiring and after.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4317583

Here are the relevant paragraphs:



- So, basically, it might not be fair to blame Tom King for this as, like Brad Meltzer, he may have had a "kill list" from DiDio to work off of.

- DiDio is a troll who LIKES to piss off readers because he feels that reader apathy and ambivalence is worse than readers hating him or the comics.


In a way, this is true. DiDio specifically initiated the Rebirth direction because he said that at a Comics Convention where he was on the panel, when it came time to talk about the future of the DCYou initiative, fans either got up and left or didn't care. He said in interviews regarding the Rebirth One-Shot that fan apathy was "palpable." And, let's face it, the DCYou line was NOT really polarizing or controversial in any way. It was just dull. So, it might be true that nicey-nice fun comics just don't sell. Otherwise, the Bizarro comic would be on its 50th issue.

Well, given that most people haven't read HIC 8 yet, the fan reaction is already anything but apathetic. So, in that sense, he is getting people talking.

However, I feel that there is a limit to the number of times you can tweak the fans' collective nose and have them keep coming back for more.

I'm very curious to see how many people who say they are swearing off DC will really do so. With Batman: Last Knight on Earth and Year of the Villain coming up, it will be interesting to see if fans really penalize DC for HIC or if they just shrug it off by assuring themselves that in comics nothing is permanent and that Wally will be back one day fully redeemed.

I'm also very curious what Geoff Johns feels about all this because Johns says he only wrote the DC Rebirth special in the first place on the condition that he was able to bring back Wally.

I'm also starting to wonder if the delays on Doomsday Clock have anything to do with the events in Heroes in Crisis. Maybe Johns got wind of what HIC is doing and wanted to delay DClock so that he can write an ending that brings Wally back and undoes HIC.

One thing is for sure. The remainder of the year will be very interesting at DC -- more for any behind the scenes fallout than anything else.

From my personally thought, I don't think TK was innocent in this case
As far as I see, TK actually didn't think his this issue story have any problem
1.jpg

[king81992]

From my personally thought, I don't think TK was innocent in this case
As far as I see, TK actually didn't think his this issue story have any problem
1.jpg

The context is that King wasted an interesting concept on edge and shock value. Within the issue there were several opportunities for Wally to have done things differently, but King had him ignore those options so the worst possible outcome would happen.