Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Darkcrusade25]

Bendis loving Wally explains why he writes the Flash(Barry) so wally like and even gave him red hair in the first superman issue.

I hope Bendis takes the Titans and does a run with the Fab5+NTT.

[Frontier]

No one cared for Supergirl until Peter David showed up.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Supergirl is probably one of the most iconic and famous characters in the Superman mythos besides the Man of Steel himself and his supporting cast.

The PAD Linda/Matrix run was probably one of her more popular depictions though.

Bendis KILLED off a version of Peter Parker and gave us Miles Morales. Then prove Miles & real Peter could co-exist.

Co-exist to an extent so long as they stay a good distance away from one another and don't infringe on each others stories.

Frankly I think it'd be easier to pull off Barry and Wally together by just putting them in different cities.

[Dred]

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Supergirl is probably one of the most iconic and famous characters in the Superman mythos besides the Man of Steel himself and his supporting cast.

The PAD Linda/Matrix run was probably one of her more popular depictions though.

Co-exist to an extent so long as they stay a good distance away from one another and don't infringe on each others stories.

Frankly I think it'd be easier to pull off Barry and Wally together by just putting them in different cities.

I don't think so. Miles has the caveat of still being the young up and comer who can get some tutelage and grow into the name. That gives him a place in Peter stories, and Peter a place in his stories. It makes coexistence easier.

Wally and Barry have long since passed that point and it's why they step on each others' toes so much. DC said it themselves, they see them as the same guy doing the same things because Wally grew up to be Barry's equal -- it's a lot harder to write two equals with the same powerset and villains than it is to write a mentor and protege. It's why they tossed Wally in the first place and tried to bring him back as New 52 Wally.

[Frontier]

I don't think so. Miles has the caveat of still being the young up and comer who can get some tutelage and grow into the name. That gives him a place in Peter stories, and Peter a place in his stories. It makes coexistence easier.

I dunno. It feels like when they try to mine that aspect with Miles, especially in the PS4 Spider-Man game, it comes off like they're writing him like Wally West instead of Miles Morales. It worked in Into the Spider-Verse because they had a washed up Peter Parker who obviously wasn't going to permanently be in Miles' universe after they killed off the actual Peter Parker of Miles' universe.

Spider-Man as an identity works best when it's a single individual with the identity growing and learning on his own without having an older, mentor, figure that's a fixture in their life or a younger version using their same exact codename.

I think both characters work better when writers just don't really acknowledge the other Spider-Man.

Wally and Barry have long since passed that point and it's why they step on each others' toes so much. DC said it themselves, they see them as the same guy doing the same things because Wally grew up to be Barry's equal -- it's a lot harder to write two equals with the same powerset and villains than it is to write a mentor and protege. It's why they tossed Wally in the first place and tried to bring him back as New 52 Wally.

I don't really think they step on each other's toes that much, especially when written together by Williamson. It really seems more like DC keeps holding Wally back for fear of him outshining Barry.

Frankly I think it would be easier to just have Wally in Keystone having his own Flash adventures with the Rogues original to him while Barry has his own adventures in Central City.

[Dred]

I dunno. It feels like when they try to mine that aspect with Miles, especially in the PS4 Spider-Man game, it comes off like they're writing him like Wally West instead of Miles Morales. It worked in Into the Spider-Verse because they had a washed up Peter Parker who obviously wasn't going to permanently be in Miles' universe after they killed off the actual Peter Parker of Miles' universe.

Spider-Man as an identity works best when it's a single individual with the identity growing and learning on his own without having an older, mentor, figure that's a fixture in their life or a younger version using their same exact codename.

I think both characters work better when writers just don't really acknowledge the other Spider-Man.

I don't really think they step on each other's toes that much, especially when written together by Williamson. It really seems more like DC keeps holding Wally back for fear of him outshining Barry.

Frankly I think it would be easier to just have Wally in Keystone having his own Flash adventures with the Rogues original to him while Barry has his own adventures in Central City.

That makes things like McCulloch weird and I think Wally loses out greatly on the things conflicts he built with The Rogues. The Rogues we know now were defined with Wally and you basically strip half of Wally's best history by deferring them to Barry. Once again, stepping on each others' toes even in your own pitch.

It brings up weird questions like which title gets custody of Axel? Do you walk back Jesse James' character arc so he can go back to being Barry's trickster? Where does Piper hang out? He's Wally's friend, but a great part of his tension was his history with the OG Rogues who wouldn't be present if he returned as part of Wally's supporting cast. How do they even split up two cities when the cities are literally right next to each other and they both have superspeed and would obviously respond to any trouble the other is having? Abra Kadabra was originally a Barry villain, but has a much more significantly developed villain-hero relationship with Wally. Does Barry get Turtle because that version of Turtle originated in his run (even though the concept started in Jay's run in Keystone) even though Turtle BECAME the threat he is during Wally's?

Simple answer doesn't really solve a lot of the inherent character pitfalls, setting dilution, and inherent plotholes you're begging to have. These are the questions that a writers'/editors' room tosses around when a pitch is delivered to undermine it, and there's a lot of dissonance in the concept. Not to mention Keystone is Jay's city, not Wally's, if we're going by who gets what. Wally West was a Central City kid.

[WallyWestFlash]

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lol!!

[Ilan Preskovsky]

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lol!!

My first Flash issue, along with a reprint of Showcase #4, and pretty much the issue that got me into comics.

[WallyWestFlash]

My first Flash issue, along with a reprint of Showcase #4, and pretty much the issue that got me into comics.

Really? That's pretty cool. It was a good issue.

[king81992]

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Supergirl is probably one of the most iconic and famous characters in the Superman mythos besides the Man of Steel himself and his supporting cast.

The PAD Linda/Matrix run was probably one of her more popular depictions though.

Co-exist to an extent so long as they stay a good distance away from one another and don't infringe on each others stories.

Frankly I think it'd be easier to pull off Barry and Wally together by just putting them in different cities.

Peter and Miles would co exist better if Marvel's writers allowed Peter to be a mentor and not a manchild.

Barry and Wally could and should coexist in different cities because Wally came into his own as a hero years ago but DC is more focused on shock value and edge,so King is screwing him over.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Really? That's pretty cool. It was a good issue.

It was. I liked Wally off the bat and between that issue and Showcase #4, you really got a sense of both the shared DC Universe and that sense of legacy that made '90s DC so great. Needless to say, the Return of Barry Allen, which happened just a few issues later, pretty much blew my young mind.

[Frontier]

That makes things like McCulloch weird and I think Wally loses out greatly on the things conflicts he built with The Rogues. The Rogues we know now were defined with Wally and you basically strip half of Wally's best history by deferring them to Barry. Once again, stepping on each others' toes even in your own pitch.

The Rogues as we know them were defined by Wally but I don't think their relationship with him was ever all that personal aside from the second generation Rogues like McCulloch or Axel.

Heck, a lot of Cold's dynamic with Wally was predicated on Snart's relationship with and respect for Barry.

I'd just as rather see Wally's original Rogues be more developed and utilized then see him fight the OG!Rogues on a consistent basis again, with maybe an occasional entanglement between the two, but that's just me.

It brings up weird questions like which title gets custody of Axel? Do you walk back Jesse James' character arc so he can go back to being Barry's trickster?

I'd give Wally Axel and give Barry Jesse. Jesse being a villain again has already happened twice (once during the end of Johns' run and now with Williamson).

Heck, I think Jesse's FBI tenure could play well with Barry as a CSI.

Where does Piper hang out? He's Wally's friend, but a great part of his tension was his history with the OG Rogues who wouldn't be present if he returned as part of Wally's supporting cast.

Wally would get Piper. I think you can still mine Piper's status as an ex-Supervillain well without needing him to be as close to the OG!Rogues. But he could probably commute.

How do they even split up two cities when the cities are literally right next to each other and they both have superspeed and would obviously respond to any trouble the other is having?

I think the point would be that the Flashes would be able to handle things in their own city without needing to super-speed to each other's rescue aside from major events, although allowing for using their speed as an excuse for team-ups and the occasional hangout.

Abra Kadabra was originally a Barry villain, but has a much more significantly developed villain-hero relationship with Wally.

Kadabra could probably be the Mxyzptlk of the Flash Family.

Does Barry get Turtle because that version of Turtle originated in his run (even though the concept started in Jay's run in Keystone) even though Turtle BECAME the threat he is during Wally's?

Turtle was the first villain Barry ever fought. I'd probably give it to him.

Simple answer doesn't really solve a lot of the inherent character pitfalls, setting dilution, and inherent plotholes you're begging to have.

True, but I would imagine it would be a good challenge for writers to work together and solve.

These are the questions that a writers'/editors' room tosses around when a pitch is delivered to undermine it, and there's a lot of dissonance in the concept.

Not to mention DC being against doing anything significant with Wally in a positive, leading, role.

Not to mention Keystone is Jay's city, not Wally's, if we're going by who gets what. Wally West was a Central City kid.

So Wally can get Jay ?

[Dred]

Maybe Jay gets Wally.

I think you're underestimating how thin you run the franchise drawing a line between the two characters and the whole cast. Especially on the cities being so close. You'd have a hard time doing anything with big stakes without going "So why isn't Barry/Wally showing up to help with the giant thing destroying the city 2 miles away?"

[Frontier]

Maybe Jay gets Wally.

Sure, why not ?

I think you're underestimating how thin you run the franchise drawing a line between the two characters and the whole cast. Especially on the cities being so close. You'd have a hard time doing anything with big stakes without going "So why isn't Barry/Wally showing up to help with the giant thing destroying the city 2 miles away?"

Maybe...but then again that's kind of the central conceit of Big Two Superhero books where it's such a large and generally close-knit community where you have to just buy that one hero can take of their problems on their own without needing help from the various other heroes or super-powered family members in their vicinity.

[TheSupernaut]

Which is why I think both Wally and Barry can benefit from a bit of Post-Crisis type power nerf.

[king81992]

Maybe Jay gets Wally.

I think you're underestimating how thin you run the franchise drawing a line between the two characters and the whole cast. Especially on the cities being so close. You'd have a hard time doing anything with big stakes without going "So why isn't Barry/Wally showing up to help with the giant thing destroying the city 2 miles away?"

After everything that has happened with Wally and Barry,I think that Wally and Jay might be a better team.

Just say that Barry is busy with the Justice League or dealing with a crime wave in his city.Or that Wally is busy dealing with crime in his city or teaming up with Jay and the Justice Society.