Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Rend20]

I don't know about that, not in this medium at least.

How is turning him into essentially a villain and tossing him into an irrelevant Suicide Squad book better than him being "Flash B" in an irrelevant Titans book?

[WallyWestFlash]

I don't know about that, not in this medium at least.

So then I'm assuming your ecstatic about Ric Grayson. So different and interesting. Way better than just boring Nightwing.

And we already have a million bat vigilantes so just bat vigilante C. You understand why they did this to differentiate him.

Right?

[Tenzel Kim]

Again your missing the the point, it’s not that so Barry can stand out more but so that Wally can. Barry is not the one that gets the short end of the stick in this Flash A Flash B situation. So ya, why not break Wally and then try something different. Even if it’s sad, painful, and extreme. What that hell are we clinging onto here as Wally fans.

How are you going to do something different when he's dead? Unless of course you want him to be another one of those characters who are magically brought back to life after they died. He has been dead for five days now, so you'd need more than simply jumpstarting his heart.

I wonder how they are going to put him in Suicide Squad though if that rumor is true. Because either it has to be during those five days before his death which would make little sense as nobody would know he did it or they have to bring him back from the dead.

[Anthony Shaw]

This just shows how big of a mistake it was for Wally to remember his family, but not have them around.

I agree with you.

[Godlike13]

How is turning him into essentially a villain and tossing him into an irrelevant Suicide Squad book better than him being "Flash B" in an irrelevant Titans book?

They haven't turned him into a villain, and well see. Maybe it won't be. I still rather they take the shot though. If it doesn't work, try something else.

So then I'm assuming your ecstatic about Ric Grayson. So different and interesting. Way better than just boring Nightwing.

And we already have a million bat vigilantes so just bat vigilante C. You understand why they did this to differentiate him.

Right?

I loved Grayson, Ric not so much. Loath doesn't begin to express how much i hate what Ric turn into. But i wasn't against shooting him in the head or the amnesia at first, its the crap that came after, and what it all inevitability became and turned into that has driven me bananas.

[Badou]

Well I don’t think they they are purposely sabotaging Wally. If someone said let’s burn Bludhaven to the ground so Nightwing can’t go back there and has to do something else, you’d problem light the first match. Barry is not going anywhere, they have invested too much in him at this point, its Wally that is going to have to change for his own befit.
.

But that is the same justification that a Didio uses when he wants to undermine characters he deems as problematic. You can use the same reasoning for justifying the Ric Grayson story. Like having Ric constantly disparage or resent Dick and Nightwing because they want to move the character away from what Dick and Nightwing were to set him even more apart from Bruce and Batman. I think that kind of fundamental change to the character, like having a Wally do what he did in this HiC story, is the wrong way to do this and falls into possible sabotage. Trying to justify it by saying the character has amnesia or is crazy now doesn't undo the fundamental problems with it.

There are good and bad ways to go about this. Saying that a Nightwing was feeling redundant and the Batman-lite stories aren't going anywhere and deciding to turn the character into a spy is a good way. As the character at their core is still the same and you are just putting them in a different environment for fresh ideas. Destroying Bludhaven (which they did a decade ago) and moving the character somewhere else is the same too as the character readers like is still intact.

They could have done that with Wally, but they really didn't try anything with Wally before HiC when they brought him back. So to completely undermine and change the character when they didn't even give him a chance to do anything is completely backwards. Instead they decided to fundamentally change the character and have him do truly unjustifiable things and now make him crazy to excuse it. That is the completely wrong approach to take to me. Just like excusing Ric's actions because he has amnesia.

[Godlike13]

But that is the same justification that a Didio uses when he wants to undermine characters he deems as problematic. You can use the same reasoning for justifying the Ric Grayson story. Like having Ric constantly disparage or resent Dick and Nightwing because they want to move the character away from what Dick and Nightwing were to set him even more apart from Bruce and Batman. I think that kind of fundamental change to the character, like having a Wally do what he did in this HiC story, is the wrong way to do this and falls into possible sabotage. Trying to justify it by saying the character has amnesia or is crazy now doesn't undo the fundamental problems with it.

There are good and bad ways to go about this. Saying that a Nightwing was feeling redundant and the Batman-lite stories aren't going anywhere and deciding to turn the character into a spy is a good way. As the character at their core is still the same and you are just putting them in a different environment for fresh ideas. Destroying Bludhaven (which they did a decade ago) and moving the character somewhere else is the same too as the character readers like is still intact.

They could have done that with Wally, but they really didn't try anything with Wally before HiC when they brought him back. So to completely undermine and change the character when they didn't even give him a chance to do anything is completely backwards. Instead they decided to fundamentally change the character and have him do truly unjustifiable things and now make him crazy to excuse it. That is the completely wrong approach to take to me. Just like excusing Ric's actions because he has amnesia.

I see what your saying, and maybe this does turn out to be too much of a change, but i still think change was needed. So im willing to see where this goes. Because im not convinced Wally has fundamentally been changed. He didn't mean to hurt anyone, except himself, and seems like he is under a disillusion that he can make it right. Character's have broke and fallen before and it has lead to some interesting times for them. Like Cyclops for example. And that wasn't even their intent.

[Tenzel Kim]

I see what your saying, and maybe this does turn out to be too much of a change, but i still think change was needed. So im willing to see where this goes. Because im not convinced Wally has fundamentally been changed. He didn't mean to hurt anyone, except himself, and seems like he is under a disillusion that he can make it right. Character's have broke and fallen before and it has lead to some interesting times for them. Like Cyclops for example. And that wasn't even their intent.

The very fact that his first thoughts would be to cover things up and then when stealing Booster's tech it would be to go to the future to kill himself, rather than going back to prevent the deaths in the first place is a pretty fundamental change of character in my opinion.

[reis9999]

*5-10 years from now*

"After discovering how the reverse flash corrupted the speed force ,causing the events at sanctuary, can the flash stop him and bring his dearest friend from oblivion?"

"No longer the fastest man alive and shunned by friends and lovers, wally west must prove he still got what it takes to attone for his sins.But if not even death could stop him what chance his enemies have against the former FLASH?
See a new glorious chapter in the flash mythos with the return of a beloved character..."

[Badou]

I see what your saying, and maybe this does turn out to be too much of a change, but i still think change was needed. So im willing to see where this goes. Because im not convinced Wally has fundamentally been changed. He didn't mean to hurt anyone, except himself, and seems like he is under a disillusion that he can make it right. Character's have broke and fallen before and it has lead to some interesting times for them. Like Cyclops for example. And that wasn't even their intent.

But it isn't so much him accidentally killing people that is my main issue, but the lengths he went to cover it up and how he tried to shift blame to others is the bigger problem. That wasn't an accident and he meticulously thought out and planned this whole dumb murder mystery King wrote. From moving dead bodies, creating fake simulations that make Harley and Booster think the other was the killer, to planting fake evidence in the corpses of the dead heroes to throw off Bruce and Barry. Those are completely unforgivable actions in my mind and highly disturbing. Him being sad his family is gone and is crazy now doesn't really excuse those actions because of all the thought and planning that went into them. That is a fundamental change to the character in my eyes.

[LP22]

Actually I would compare Didio to be the comics equivalent to Vince Russo. Just like how Russo was rumored to be a undercover agent from WWE who sabotaged WCW from within, I'm starting to believe that Didio is an agent from Marvel trying to do the same to DC.

And yeah, I'm just about done with DC at this point.

More like what Vince tried to do to Daniel Bryan in 2013-2014

[Godlike13]

But it isn't so much him accidentally killing people that is my main issue, but the lengths he went to cover it up and how he tried to shift blame to others is the bigger problem. That wasn't an accident and he meticulously thought out and planned this whole dumb murder mystery King wrote. From moving dead bodies, creating fake simulations that make Harley and Booster think the other was the killer, to planting fake evidence in the corpses of the dead heroes to throw off Bruce and Barry. Those are completely unforgivable actions in my mind and highly disturbing. Him being sad his family is gone and is crazy now doesn't really excuse those actions because of all the thought and planning that went into them. That is a fundamental change to the character in my eyes.

It wasn't just his issues that broke him, but the the issues of everyone that has been to Sanctuary. That is why i think he didn't just go back in time to stop the accident but has a bigger plan. Which in his broken mind justifies what he did to the bodies and framing Booster and Harley.

[Tenzel Kim]

Its wasn't just his issues that broke him, but the the issues of everyone at Sanctuary. That why i think he didn't just go back in time to stop the accident and has a bigger plan.

I really wonder what that bigger plan could be as none of the dead heroes are coming back or they would be already, considering the five days he had ended at the end of issue 7.

[Badou]

It wasn't just his issues that broke him, but the the issues of everyone that has been to Sanctuary. That is why i think he didn't just go back in time to stop the accident but has a bigger plan. Which in his broken mind justifies what he did to the bodies and framing Booster and Harley.

I don't think calling Wally crazy or broken now excuses his actions. It doesn't matter if he experienced the sadness of every hero at Sanctuary because I feel the character was fundamentally changed and did something reprehensible for a story that didn't work at all. The same way I feel Dick's dumb amnesia is a **** excuse for how awful Ric is. King did all this to set up some awful murder mystery and Wally's character was just the sacrificial gimmick for it.

[king81992]

But it isn't so much him accidentally killing people that is my main issue, but the lengths he went to cover it up and how he tried to shift blame to others is the bigger problem. That wasn't an accident and he meticulously thought out and planned this whole dumb murder mystery King wrote. From moving dead bodies, creating fake simulations that make Harley and Booster think the other was the killer, to planting fake evidence in the corpses of the dead heroes to throw off Bruce and Barry. Those are completely unforgivable actions in my mind and highly disturbing. Him being sad his family is gone and is crazy now doesn't really excuse those actions because of all the thought and planning that went into them. That is a fundamental change to the character in my eyes.

All Wally had to do was explain to the JL that he briefly lost control of his powers and that caused everyone to die. DC would still get a broken, traumatized Wally if that's what they really wanted. The real damage is what King had Wally do AFTER the accident. It makes Wally into a villain. He didn't seem to care if Harley and Booster were punished for what he did or if they wound up killing each other. What if one of the fallen hero's friends or relatives decided to seek revenge on the people he framed? Its just so callous.