Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Spider-Ham]

That's awesome. Looks so good. How did you get it?

I had some gold, use it to get Wally in the shop. I have to admit, I think his suit is amazing !

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I don't think King hates Wally. In fact I don't think King really likes or dislikes any DC hero one way or the other. King writes any DC character to fit whichever trauma/psychological damaging story he is telling. Batman does not have a distinct personality from Booster Gold or anyone else.

Nice words are just that, nice words. Actions speak louder than words. I've learnt this by reading many interviews from writers and other heads of DC over the years.

I've read many interviews where Didio proclaims he loves legacy in the DCU and we all know how that has turned out. these guys are running a business and want to make money. They will say anything that will make more people buy more of their product.

King is not out to get Wally. (I think this crapping on Wally came from his outright hater, Didio) But he will write him out of character like any other character, or do horrible things to him as long as it portrays whatever disturbing issue he is currently trying to push in the story.

I appreciate what you're saying about the work being more important than what is said in interviews but I think you're being a bit too harsh on his writing. The PTSD theme does have a habit of popping up in most of his work but I don't agree that his characters are interchangeable and his actual stories are more diverse than you suggest too. I find the criticisms against his Batman that many have especially perplexing because I think he writes Batman with more personality than most - he's more human and more vulnerable but still recognizably Batman.

And, credit where credit's due, Didio sells the comics as needed but he has never hidden his hatred for Wally or Dick Grayson. He has said as much during interviews.

As for HiC, I understand not wanting to give King the benefit of the doubt and giving up on the series early on but it really does seem like there is a lot more going on than is first apparent. I might eat my words but, eh, King hasn't steared me wrong yet.

Finally, my main reason for posting this was that, however much I love Wally West - he is my favourite superhero - people on this forum are getting just a bit too worked up about a story that is nowhere near its end and, quite crucially, in a genre where death means nothing and there's only so long before the pendulum swings back and your favourite character is back in the spotlight, written as you like them to be written (hello, Impulse!). I do hope for some great Wally stuff much sooner than later but until then, there are enough great comics out there that I can just skip the areas of DC that I'm not liking and I have tons of great Wally West back issues to go back to if I feel like some classic Wally.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Thanks anyway. At least I know that my inability to navigate it is due to the site's design indeed, not me being an old fart. XD

Oh, it's definitely the site. Or I'm an old fart too. Either one.

[JoeZ]

Does anyone know anything about Wally in the Wednesday issue of Heroes in Crisis? Some spoiler.
I am really anxious.

[BohemiaDrinker]

And, credit where credit's due, Didio sells the comics as needed but he has never hidden his hatred for Wally or Dick Grayson. He has said as much during interviews.

Yeah, but that's why I don't think HiC deserves a chance. It really doesn't matter how good a story it may turn out being or if the characters are interchangeable or not (though the dead certainly are). It became the last attempt at an agenda that's been running for way too long.

After the last 12 or so years, they should not be screwing with Wally at this point, period.

Finally, my main reason for posting this was that, however much I love Wally West - he is my favourite superhero - people on this forum are getting just a bit too worked up about a story that is nowhere near its end

But that's exactly what I'm talking about. People's patience reached their ends. Dc should be aware (and maybe they are, in which case they should give a damn). I get the idea of "Wally will generate an impact as one of the deaths", but what it actually generated was a picture of Didio forming in people's heads along with the words "again, ************? Seriously?" He was the wrong character to screw with...

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, but that's why I don't think HiC deserves a chance. It really doesn't matter how good a story it may turn out being or if the characters are interchangeable or not (though the dead certainly are). It became the last attempt at an agenda that's been running for way too long.

After the last 12 or so years, they should not be screwing with Wally at this point, period.



But that's exactly what I'm talking about. People's patience reached their ends. Dc should be aware (and maybe they are, in which case they should give a damn). I get the idea of "Wally will generate an impact as one of the deaths", but what it actually generated was a picture of Didio forming in people's heads along with the words "again, ************? Seriously?" He was the wrong character to screw with...

I do wonder, incidentally, if this what Barry Allen, Hal Jordan or Kara Zor El fans felt when their characters were bumped off for "pretenders to the thrown". I absolutely agree that Didio's personal biases should not be dictating the creative direction of the entire line but how different is this really for the anti-pre-Crisis attitude of the '90s? The '90s are still overall my favourite decade for DC's superheros, to be sure, but I'm sure older fans must have hated them. It's the cyclical nature of the thing.

All that said, though, I do understand the frustration and, honestly, my own personal recommendation is that instead of reading something like HiC, give it a wide berth and maybe check in with it if you hear good things afterwards. I know I would do exactly that if it weren't for the fact that Tom King's writing really resonates with me or is, at the very least, interesting. As a Wally fan, I do worry about where this will leave my favourite character, which is why it's comforting to hear King himself speak this way. Though, if not, I'm going to see if I can judge the story purely for what it is. Whether I'll succeed at that or not, I'm not sure, but I do think that if you aren't basically drawn to King's work, and you are a fan of the characters who are apparently being mistreated in the book, it would probably be best just not to bother with it and go read some old Waid Flash comics instead.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I do wonder, incidentally, if this what Barry Allen, Hal Jordan or Kara Zor El fans felt when their characters were bumped off for "pretenders to the thrown". I absolutely agree that Didio's personal biases should not be dictating the creative direction of the entire line but how different is this really for the anti-pre-Crisis attitude of the '90s? The '90s are still overall my favourite decade for DC's superheros, to be sure, but I'm sure older fans must have hated them. It's the cyclical nature of the thing.

Hal Jordan fans, for sure. (even if his situation was still slightly better than what Wally's is here).

Barry fans, I guess, but it's nowhere near.

And I don't think Kara had enough of a fandom back in 86.

All that said, though, I do understand the frustration and, honestly, my own personal recommendation is that instead of reading something like HiC, give it a wide berth and maybe check in with it if you hear good things afterwards. I know I would do exactly that if it weren't for the fact that Tom King's writing really resonates with me or is, at the very least, interesting. As a Wally fan, I do worry about where this will leave my favourite character, which is why it's comforting to hear King himself speak this way. Though, if not, I'm going to see if I can judge the story purely for what it is. Whether I'll succeed at that or not, I'm not sure, but I do think that if you aren't basically drawn to King's work, and you are a fan of the characters who are apparently being mistreated in the book, it would probably be best just not to bother with it and go read some old Waid Flash comics instead.

I usually love Kings work. This story hasn't cut for me, though. First, I feel that it takes everything that worked marvelously well in Mr. Miracle, and makes those same things work horribly wrong here. IT may be that it's not the kind of story fit for continuity, it may be that it's just bad. Second, I'm just not interested in the latest Dan Didio SuperFunhouse issue. No story that furthers his preferences will ever be able to grab my interests again, I think; because I now what he likes, I know I don't like it, and I know that every time he tries again to further his vision, he's gonna be shittier about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Hal Jordan fans, for sure. (even if his situation was still slightly better than what Wally's is here).

Barry fans, I guess, but it's nowhere near.

And I don't think Kara had enough of a fandom back in 86.



I usually love Kings work. This story hasn't cut for me, though. First, I feel that it takes everything that worked marvelously well in Mr. Miracle, and makes those same things work horribly wrong here. IT may be that it's not the kind of story fit for continuity, it may be that it's just bad. Second, I'm just not interested in the latest Dan Didio SuperFunhouse issue. No story that furthers his preferences will ever be able to grab my interests again, I think; because I now what he likes, I know I don't like it, and I know that every time he tries again to further his vision, he's gonna be shittier about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's fair enough. On both points. I still need to catch up with the last couple of issues of HiC, which might be why I haven't given up on it yet but, like so many Event comics, I'm dubious about it by nature and it's only King and Mann's names that have me checking it out in the first place. As for your second point, yup, it does seem like Didio is very much back in charge of things and I certainly understand wanting to avoid anything that, as you say, "furthers his vision". The trick, probably, is figuring out just what that is and which titles it would actually affect. HiC is a particularly weird one because King is a very good seller for DC so, like for Bendis, for example, I assumed that editorial and Didio would give him freer rein.

[BohemiaDrinker]

The trick, probably, is figuring out just what that is .

Pro-Tip: If it starts with Wally dead, there's a 98.3% chance that that's it!

HiC is a particularly weird one because King is a very good seller for DC so, like for Bendis, for example, I assumed that editorial and Didio would give him freer rein.

Didio is a smooooooooth-talker, man. He's like silver-age Reed Richards. King probably thinks it was his idea, not Dan's, to this day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Pro-Tip: If it starts with Wally dead, there's a 98.3% chance that that's it!



Didio is a smooooooooth-talker, man. He's like silver-age Reed Richards. King probably thinks it was his idea, not Dan's, to this day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Heh, you may be right.

And normally, I would agree with you that if Wally looks dead then he probably is (for now) but even from the off, it just didn't sit right with me. Not just because there seemed to be a lot of setup for Wally before the story to simply knock him off and King and Williamson admit to working together re: Wally in the lead up to HiC - which all could undoubtedly mean nothing if Didio simply wanted him dead - but because it feels to me like the sort of story where absolutely nothing can be taken for granted - even a bunch of dead heroes.

[WallyWestFlash]

I appreciate what you're saying about the work being more important than what is said in interviews but I think you're being a bit too harsh on his writing. The PTSD theme does have a habit of popping up in most of his work but I don't agree that his characters are interchangeable and his actual stories are more diverse than you suggest too. I find the criticisms against his Batman that many have especially perplexing because I think he writes Batman with more personality than most - he's more human and more vulnerable but still recognizably Batman.

And, credit where credit's due, Didio sells the comics as needed but he has never hidden his hatred for Wally or Dick Grayson. He has said as much during interviews.

As for HiC, I understand not wanting to give King the benefit of the doubt and giving up on the series early on but it really does seem like there is a lot more going on than is first apparent. I might eat my words but, eh, King hasn't steared me wrong yet.

Finally, my main reason for posting this was that, however much I love Wally West - he is my favourite superhero - people on this forum are getting just a bit too worked up about a story that is nowhere near its end and, quite crucially, in a genre where death means nothing and there's only so long before the pendulum swings back and your favourite character is back in the spotlight, written as you like them to be written (hello, Impulse!). I do hope for some great Wally stuff much sooner than later but until then, there are enough great comics out there that I can just skip the areas of DC that I'm not liking and I have tons of great Wally West back issues to go back to if I feel like some classic Wally.

As far as King we'll agree to disagree. I did really like him in the beginning with his Omega Men, Grayson and Hal Jordan one shot but he has quickly become one of the worst writers I have ever read. He is way too pretentious for me. He will have page after page of random poetry in a Batman book??? His decompression is astounding. But worst of all is his obsession with emotionally damaged and broken heroes. It really seems like he is using these comics and stories as his own personal therapy outlet. A story with disturbing trauma every once in awhile is one thing. But you would have to be sticking your head in the sand not to see the very glaring pattern here. Every once in awhile in Superhero comic is fine but this does not belong as a constant in Superhero spandex comics . Especially at DC.

As for getting worked up over Wally if I wasn't being lazy I would repost the postings of the previous thread of Wally constantly going through the wringer and posters telling others to stop over reacting and too just "Wait and see" and "Be patient. It will work out." Yeah. Eventually you got to face reality. After THREE years of just being told to wait and maybe things will get better and nothing actually getting better, it's a little much.

Wally will continue to be dumped on and otherwise attempted to be erased and replaced altogether (Hi 2014, New 52) until the curse of Didio is finally removed.

[BohemiaDrinker]

As for getting worked up over Wally if I wasn't being lazy I would repost the postings of the previous thread of Wally constantly going through the wringer and posters telling others to stop over reacting and too just "Wait and see" and "Be patient. It will work out." Yeah. Eventually you got to face reality. After THREE years of just being told to wait and maybe things will get better and nothing actually getting better, it's a little much..

Only 3? You're a Baby!

I came here 9 years ago because they chased away anyone who complained about Wally from ComicBloc.

I'm being told to "wait and see" for a looooooooooong time. Hell, I was told that by Johns himself when the first Flash: Rebirth was coming out.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

As far as King we'll agree to disagree. I did really like him in the beginning with his Omega Men, Grayson and Hal Jordan one shot but he has quickly become one of the worst writers I have ever read. He is way too pretentious for me. He will have page after page of random poetry in a Batman book??? His decompression is astounding. But worst of all is his obsession with emotionally damaged and broken heroes. It really seems like he is using these comics and stories as his own personal therapy outlet. A story with disturbing trauma every once in awhile is one thing. But you would have to be sticking your head in the sand not to see the very glaring pattern here. Every once in awhile in Superhero comic is fine but this does not belong as a constant in Superhero spandex comics . Especially at DC.

As for getting worked up over Wally if I wasn't being lazy I would repost the postings of the previous thread of Wally constantly going through the wringer and posters telling others to stop over reacting and too just "Wait and see" and "Be patient. It will work out." Yeah. Eventually you got to face reality. After THREE years of just being told to wait and maybe things will get better and nothing actually getting better, it's a little much.

Wally will continue to be dumped on and otherwise attempted to be erased and replaced altogether (Hi 2104, New 52) until the curse of Didio is finally removed.

Honestly, you may well be right on your last point. But it won't last forever (it really won't) and until then, really, just avoid the part of DC that is guilty of this.

[WallyWestFlash]

Only 3? You're a Baby!

I came here 9 years ago because they chased away anyone who complained about Wally from ComicBloc.

I'm being told to "wait and see" for a looooooooooong time. Hell, I was told that by Johns himself when the first Flash: Rebirth was coming out.

Haha!! I've been around (in comics at least) longer than that.

I meant since Wally came back in Rebirth.

It was frustrating when Wally got sidelined in Flash Rebirth. But Barry was just back so the dynamics were brand new and we had no idea where it would go. And sidelined is better than whats happening now.

[WallyWestFlash]

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To brighten things up a bit, here is one of my favorite renditions of one of my favorite (and one of my first) Wally covers.