Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[WallyWestFlash]

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1char.

[Spider-Ham]

Fun fact : Wally is in DC’s office :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4XXcJ8U...jpg&name=large

Well, not entirely but still ! See guys, DC LOVES Wally West ! x)

[Frontier]

43239203_939524256253525_4057991294687510624_n.jpg
1char.

Fastest Dunker Alive .

Fun fact : Wally is in DC’s office :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4XXcJ8U...jpg&name=large

Well, not entirely but still ! See guys, DC LOVES Wally West ! x)

It's so fitting that they obscure Flash's face .

[Dred]

I’d love to read your opinion on the subject. Can you post it on the Wally appreciation thread if you have the time ? Not sure if a Didio thread is the best place to talk about it.

Sure.

Now, I'm (mostly) only talking about character premise. I'm not going to go and define every little bit of what makes Wally great and different from Barry because it'd take me several posts. But I can gladly set out some very clear differences in premise that bring about stories you could never tell with Barry.

First and foremost -- Wally was thrust into his position. Barry became the Flash at his leisure. There was a clear level of unpreparedness in the job that Wally had that Barry never even sniffed at. This is something I'm sure will change with Flash Year One, but it was certainly the case back in Barry's day that he just kicked off being an amazing hero, ready for the job. Wally, not so much. I also lump the power level difference in their start with this -- Barry was running lightspeed from day 1 like Jay. Wally came into his role at a paltry speed of sound. So for a very long time Wally was getting a lot more gringy, down to earth style comics that were symptomatic of the time (everyone getting depowered) but were certainly different in premise from Barry either in the past or to this day.

Secondly, romance. Barry was dating and had his love life settled from day 1! He was a grown man, with a successful life, and a girl come fiance come wife already with him. Wally was a young reckless kid who didn't know what or who he wanted. You do not and can not get the same story you got with Linda that you did Barry and Iris'. Heck, even in the New 52 they had Barry start off with Patty at the outset, stick with her for way too long, and then just settle back into the relationship with Iris we all knew was coming. Barry and Iris were never staying separated permanently, the universe wouldn't allow. Wally had a lot more to explore. Barry and Iris play a different dynamic, that can be good! But it's clearly not the same as Wally's whirlwind love life with girl after girl before Linda finally set him right.

Thirdly, he was a public hero! One of the few of his kind. One of my favorite moments in early Wally's run was him and Ralph reminiscing about Barry together, and I always like to imagine that Wally took after Ralph a bit in going public. Being a public hero sets stories like, say, Presidential Race. Or, obviously more importantly, Blitz! These stories hinge on basic stuff like Wally being open to the public. Barry was so tied to his secret identity, so tied to keeping his hero life away from the rest that they'd go through wacky hijinks to keep it in place. Heck, Linda and Wally build their relationship through Linda knowing who Wally is. You couldn't and can't tell stories or do the worldbuilding the same way with the two of them.

Fourthly, Wally had an entire, detailed history of his life before he became The Flash. Wally was already a character -- at the time, sort of an ******* but you could see why. He had this entire life build up to the moment he became The Flash and it adds a lot of texture to who he is, why he's donning the mantle, and what he's about. Barry, for all intents and purposes to us as readers, was born The Flash. He wasn't a sidekick and he was only thematically derivative of Jay, if not narratively. Barry did not come into the comic with Dick Grayson or Starfire on call. Barry did not come into the comic having known Superman for years. Barry was placed on a blank canvas, a new world in a new age. Wally was painted onto an already rich tapestry. Again, I am not saying either one is inherently better. I'm sure a lot, even most, people would prefer a character whose start is the narrative start rather than someone with baggage. But I think there's a lot of good stuff in those bags Wally was toting around.

Fifthly, and this one is pretty obvious, personality. I don't think I need to go into great detail here but Wally is a brash, impulsive, braggadocios, smartass, hotshot. While Barry had a bit of showoff to him, he was a smart, collected, stand up gentlemen. He made half his early career on doing science lessons, after all, and the sciencey part of his character will never go away. Neither is inherently better here, though they have really sloughed off some of Wally's personality onto Barry because I suppose that more granular character is more appealing to modern writers and audiences. Personality is a big part of character premise. Bruce is a vengeful rich ubermensch, Clark is a good hearted kansas kid, Diana is a peaceloving trained warrior, Barry is a oft late straight laced scientist, and Wally is all those things I said. Barry's not going to get in trouble because he got too full of himself and thinks he's hot **** -- even nowadays with the character grafting Barry is rarely that cocky. Wally not so much. It's why he needs a wife to yell at him to cool his jets, where Barry needed a wife to grab him by the arm and yank some aggressiveness out of him.

Finally, and obviously the most important one that everyone knows about, Wally was living in Barry's shadow. Wally is the most hardcore Legacy character to the point where he defines Legacy characters -- Barry never had much to live up to. He did name himself after Jay, and had to in a more ethereal way live up to that standard but...the first time Barry meets Jay, Jay shakes his hand and tells him he's great. The first time Jay meets Wally after Wally is the Flash he calls him Junior because he doesn't think he's earned being called The Flash at that point. That says mountains about where they're starting from (and Jay met Barry way earlier in Barry's run than Jay met Wally in Wally's run!). Wally has arguably the greatest character arc ever about mourning and overcoming the loss of a father and mentor who, in the eyes of everyone else, is the best there ever was and who you'll never be able to live up to. And he nails it! Obviously I'm diverging from just the premise, but The Return of Barry Allen is, in my opinion, the single best payoff moment for character growth in DC Cape Comics history. No singular throughline had been so developed, so thoughtful, and so well written as Wally's coming to terms with being The Flash and what that means. And that is not a story you could ever tell with Barry. Because their premise is different. Barry's premise is him getting powers, naming himself off of a comic book, and just being a great superhero. He was better than Jay the second he put on the boots. Wally was worse and everyone knew it.

But while that starts Wally off at a lower floor, I think it gave him a higher ceiling than the kind of dramatic growth that Barry could or even can achieve from a long developed character arc. I'm not sure there is a part of Barry's character premise that can be developed in a similarly powerful way (I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't know where that character beat is). That's a really big premise difference that leads to stories that you can't possibly do with Barry.

There's a lot, lot more of what makes them different. And to this day I roll my eyes and spit on the floor at DC declaring that Wally and Barry are too similar for Wally to ever get his own comic while Barry is around just off premises alone, much less everything else.

[Kyer]

I liked Iris West in Kingdom Come. I just don't care for Wally having kids in main continuity.

Also I just saw that The Flash Mark Waid TPB Vol 1 is going for a second printing. So that's something.

Very pumped for June's release of the next one as California arc is the prologue to one of my all-time favorite story arcs.

Which reminds me.... I keep meaning to try to figure out just how many trades there will be to finish off Mark Waid's first The Flash run.

(Also, still sour that anything with Barry in it --even another book written by Waid!-- is offered in hardcover, but any print featuring Wally is a paperback. *mutters*)

[Spider-Ham]

Thank you so much Dred. This is fascinating and it was great to read !

(Also, still sour that anything with Barry in it --even another book written by Waid!-- is offered in hardcover, but any print featuring Wally is a paperback. *mutters*)

With The Flash by Geoff Johns collection getting a new omnibus edition , I wouldn't be surprise if the Waid collection gets the same treatment at some point.

[Kyer]

I liked omnibuses all the way up until I got the Geoff John's Flash one and two volumes. So heavy and the gutter loss! Passed on getting the last volume which I read was going to be the largest yet. I'll stick with reasonably sized volumes, thanks.

[married guy]

I'm not a big fan of the omnibus. I understand they can attract new readers who get maximum bang for their buck, but I have always preferred the single issues or six issue trades to trying to read something that weighs more than the phone book.

[Jekyll]

I'm not a big fan of the omnibus. I understand they can attract new readers who get maximum bang for their buck, but I have always preferred the single issues or six issue trades to trying to read something that weighs more than the phone book.

Same! The Starman omnibus are one of the few that did it right. Collects many issues but does not break your wrist when trying to read.

[WallyWestFlash]

Sure.

Now, I'm (mostly) only talking about character premise. I'm not going to go and define every little bit of what makes Wally great and different from Barry because it'd take me several posts. But I can gladly set out some very clear differences in premise that bring about stories you could never tell with Barry.

First and foremost -- Wally was thrust into his position. Barry became the Flash at his leisure. There was a clear level of unpreparedness in the job that Wally had that Barry never even sniffed at. This is something I'm sure will change with Flash Year One, but it was certainly the case back in Barry's day that he just kicked off being an amazing hero, ready for the job. Wally, not so much. I also lump the power level difference in their start with this -- Barry was running lightspeed from day 1 like Jay. Wally came into his role at a paltry speed of sound. So for a very long time Wally was getting a lot more gringy, down to earth style comics that were symptomatic of the time (everyone getting depowered) but were certainly different in premise from Barry either in the past or to this day.

Secondly, romance. Barry was dating and had his love life settled from day 1! He was a grown man, with a successful life, and a girl come fiance come wife already with him. Wally was a young reckless kid who didn't know what or who he wanted. You do not and can not get the same story you got with Linda that you did Barry and Iris'. Heck, even in the New 52 they had Barry start off with Patty at the outset, stick with her for way too long, and then just settle back into the relationship with Iris we all knew was coming. Barry and Iris were never staying separated permanently, the universe wouldn't allow. Wally had a lot more to explore. Barry and Iris play a different dynamic, that can be good! But it's clearly not the same as Wally's whirlwind love life with girl after girl before Linda finally set him right.

Thirdly, he was a public hero! One of the few of his kind. One of my favorite moments in early Wally's run was him and Ralph reminiscing about Barry together, and I always like to imagine that Wally took after Ralph a bit in going public. Being a public hero sets stories like, say, Presidential Race. Or, obviously more importantly, Blitz! These stories hinge on basic stuff like Wally being open to the public. Barry was so tied to his secret identity, so tied to keeping his hero life away from the rest that they'd go through wacky hijinks to keep it in place. Heck, Linda and Wally build their relationship through Linda knowing who Wally is. You couldn't and can't tell stories or do the worldbuilding the same way with the two of them.

Fourthly, Wally had an entire, detailed history of his life before he became The Flash. Wally was already a character -- at the time, sort of an ******* but you could see why. He had this entire life build up to the moment he became The Flash and it adds a lot of texture to who he is, why he's donning the mantle, and what he's about. Barry, for all intents and purposes to us as readers, was born The Flash. He wasn't a sidekick and he was only thematically derivative of Jay, if not narratively. Barry did not come into the comic with Dick Grayson or Starfire on call. Barry did not come into the comic having known Superman for years. Barry was placed on a blank canvas, a new world in a new age. Wally was painted onto an already rich tapestry. Again, I am not saying either one is inherently better. I'm sure a lot, even most, people would prefer a character whose start is the narrative start rather than someone with baggage. But I think there's a lot of good stuff in those bags Wally was toting around.

Fifthly, and this one is pretty obvious, personality. I don't think I need to go into great detail here but Wally is a brash, impulsive, braggadocios, smartass, hotshot. While Barry had a bit of showoff to him, he was a smart, collected, stand up gentlemen. He made half his early career on doing science lessons, after all, and the sciencey part of his character will never go away. Neither is inherently better here, though they have really sloughed off some of Wally's personality onto Barry because I suppose that more granular character is more appealing to modern writers and audiences. Personality is a big part of character premise. Bruce is a vengeful rich ubermensch, Clark is a good hearted kansas kid, Diana is a peaceloving trained warrior, Barry is a oft late straight laced scientist, and Wally is all those things I said. Barry's not going to get in trouble because he got too full of himself and thinks he's hot **** -- even nowadays with the character grafting Barry is rarely that cocky. Wally not so much. It's why he needs a wife to yell at him to cool his jets, where Barry needed a wife to grab him by the arm and yank some aggressiveness out of him.

Finally, and obviously the most important one that everyone knows about, Wally was living in Barry's shadow. Wally is the most hardcore Legacy character to the point where he defines Legacy characters -- Barry never had much to live up to. He did name himself after Jay, and had to in a more ethereal way live up to that standard but...the first time Barry meets Jay, Jay shakes his hand and tells him he's great. The first time Jay meets Wally after Wally is the Flash he calls him Junior because he doesn't think he's earned being called The Flash at that point. That says mountains about where they're starting from (and Jay met Barry way earlier in Barry's run than Jay met Wally in Wally's run!). Wally has arguably the greatest character arc ever about mourning and overcoming the loss of a father and mentor who, in the eyes of everyone else, is the best there ever was and who you'll never be able to live up to. And he nails it! Obviously I'm diverging from just the premise, but The Return of Barry Allen is, in my opinion, the single best payoff moment for character growth in DC Cape Comics history. No singular throughline had been so developed, so thoughtful, and so well written as Wally's coming to terms with being The Flash and what that means. And that is not a story you could ever tell with Barry. Because their premise is different. Barry's premise is him getting powers, naming himself off of a comic book, and just being a great superhero. He was better than Jay the second he put on the boots. Wally was worse and everyone knew it.

But while that starts Wally off at a lower floor, I think it gave him a higher ceiling than the kind of dramatic growth that Barry could or even can achieve from a long developed character arc. I'm not sure there is a part of Barry's character premise that can be developed in a similarly powerful way (I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't know where that character beat is). That's a really big premise difference that leads to stories that you can't possibly do with Barry.

There's a lot, lot more of what makes them different. And to this day I roll my eyes and spit on the floor at DC declaring that Wally and Barry are too similar for Wally to ever get his own comic while Barry is around just off premises alone, much less everything else.

Very cool write up. Detailed and thought out.

I like Wally better than Barry but your fifth point is the real reason why. His personality.

Your other points definitely contribute to that and also are reasons that I like Wally but for me that is the main thing.

Wally is just funny and light so I have a fun time reading him. He also has character flaws and has the everyman thing going so he's easy to.connect to and relate with.
Barry is neither of those.

For me in.general and with my favorite characters, the personality is what draws me. The costumes, powers and such are nice but the personality is what really pulls.me in whether I'll like a character or not.

That's something that DC either can't see or pretends not too. Wally and Barry, although both heroes with good hearts are pretty much.opposites in who they are.

Yes they both have red costumes, run very fast and are called the Flash but everything else is vastly different.

[Jekyll]

Finally, and obviously the most important one that everyone knows about, Wally was living in Barry's shadow. Wally is the most hardcore Legacy character to the point where he defines Legacy characters -- Barry never had much to live up to. He did name himself after Jay, and had to in a more ethereal way live up to that standard but...the first time Barry meets Jay, Jay shakes his hand and tells him he's great. The first time Jay meets Wally after Wally is the Flash he calls him Junior because he doesn't think he's earned being called The Flash at that point. That says mountains about where they're starting from (and Jay met Barry way earlier in Barry's run than Jay met Wally in Wally's run!). Wally has arguably the greatest character arc ever about mourning and overcoming the loss of a father and mentor who, in the eyes of everyone else, is the best there ever was and who you'll never be able to live up to. And he nails it! Obviously I'm diverging from just the premise, but The Return of Barry Allen is, in my opinion, the single best payoff moment for character growth in DC Cape Comics history. No singular throughline had been so developed, so thoughtful, and so well written as Wally's coming to terms with being The Flash and what that means. And that is not a story you could ever tell with Barry. Because their premise is different. Barry's premise is him getting powers, naming himself off of a comic book, and just being a great superhero. He was better than Jay the second he put on the boots. Wally was worse and everyone knew it.

Which makes the moment that Jay acknowledges him as an equal even more meaningful that the simple handshake that Barry received. Barry was written in simpler times and it makes you wonder what that first meeting would be like today.

[DragonPiece]

Well, looks like all our fears about Wally’s future will be confirmed based on this bleeding cool article https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04...l-and-spoilers

[Denirac]

Well, looks like all our fears about Wally’s future will be confirmed based on this bleeding cool article https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04...l-and-spoilers

To Quote Dean Winchester: SON OF A B****

[Dred]

They didn't really post anything there besides "HiC 8 is coming out and it may or may not confirm our previous rumors." I'm typically pessimistic when it comes to Wally but that doesn't really change things one way or the other for me.

[WallyWestFlash]

Well, looks like all our fears about Wally’s future will be confirmed based on this bleeding cool article https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04...l-and-spoilers

Article doesn't say anything unless I'm missing something.

Anyways at this point I would.be surprised if Wally wasn't the killer in this piece of **** series. The rumors have been going on for awhile already and everything in the actual series points to it.

It will probably anger me enough to drop everything DC for awhile. Even though I know it's coming it's different then when it actually happens.

Oh well. No big loss. DC has been sucking for the last year anyways and I've lost all.interest. I'll continue reading all the back issues when DC used to be great.